THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Vanessa Stoilova: In the art world. We have to be persistent. We have to be go getters. And someone who just sends one email then immediately gives up. What does that say about you? You know you have to try harder than that. Even if you’re the best illustrator in the world, you won’t fit every project, so you’re still going to get a lot of no’s. It’s part of the business.
Speaker 2: It’s The Inspiration Place podcast with artist Miriam Schulman. Welcome to the Inspiration Podcast, an Art World insider podcast for artists by an artist, where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the art. And now your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman:: Today’s guest is a professional illustrator with experience in mobile games, picture books and surface design. She has worked with clients such as American Greetings, Scholastic, Hobby Lobby, TJ Maxx, Source Books, and many more since 2020. She also helps aspiring illustrators start the career of their dreams, and you can catch her free videos on her YouTube channel. Art business with ness. Please welcome to the Inspiration Place, Vanessa Stoyanova. Well, hey Vanessa, welcome to the show. Hi. Okay, so Quebec and New York meet.
Vanessa Stoilova: Yeah, I mean, we’re kind of almost exactly on top of one another.
Miriam Schulman:: Is that right? I didn’t know that. Yeah, it’s.
Vanessa Stoilova: New York is just going straight south.
Miriam Schulman:: Okay. I have, I have been to Montreal, but not Montreal proper. Like Corning. To Corning. Oh, do you know what? That’s.
Vanessa Stoilova: Yeah, that’s odd for people to make it to Corning, but not Montreal.
Miriam Schulman:: I was I was invited to be a speaker, and I wasn’t brave enough to, like, go from where they were putting me up for my speaker event to, I don’t know. I just felt like, okay, I didn’t really keep me there that long. If I was with somebody else, I definitely would have wanted to explore the city and go to like a nice restaurant. So. So Vanessa was kind enough to invite me to one of her summits, which I assume you do every year.
Vanessa Stoilova: It was actually my first one.
Miriam Schulman:: Really. Well, you were very organized. I think you did a great job, but you will be doing it again next year, right?
Vanessa Stoilova: Absolutely. It was a huge success. Everyone had fun. I think it was great.
Miriam Schulman:: Yeah, it was awesome. And Vanessa does something a little different than me, like I, I do coach artists and I am an artist. But everyone I wouldn’t say everybody. People who who know know. But lots of people think that just because you’re an artist, you can do it all and it’s very different. It’s almost like being a doctor where there’s different kinds of doctors. Like you agree with me.
Vanessa Stoilova: Like, absolutely.
Miriam Schulman:: Let’s start there. So what are some differences about being an illustrator versus fine artist?
Vanessa Stoilova: Right. Well, the biggest difference is I don’t really work with collectors. I really work with businesses, with companies making artwork that they will then put on their products. So it could be a picture book. It could be greeting cards or fabrics or wall art, any kind of product that they’re going to sell. So really, I’m in the business of selling my copyrights more than anything.
Miriam Schulman:: Yeah. Okay. So let’s get into it. Let’s talk about the five biggest mistakes and myths around illustration. Are you ready? Absolutely Okay. Number one.
Vanessa Stoilova: Number one is trying to do it all because commercial illustration is actually a huge field. There’s so many different things you can do. There’s different markets. And art directors really want to work with a specialist someone who knows what they’re about. So when you try to put everything in your portfolio, you’re maybe thinking that you’re you’re casting a wide net and you’re going to be able to get all these opportunities, but actually you just look all over the place. Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:: And I love I love that you started there and going with my doctor analogy. Okay. So fine artists is a different kind of doctor. And let’s just say an illustrator is like a surgeon. But you wouldn’t go to a plastic surgeon if you needed bypass on your heart. You would go to a cardiac surgeon and you wouldn’t have a heart doctor do brain surgery on you. So by the same token, you want to go to the specialists. So let’s talk about some of these different areas. But you do more than one of these special areas it seems. Is that right?
Vanessa Stoilova: Well I’ve done them one at a time. Love that. That’s the thing. So there’s a lot of people who don’t want to pick a market because they think it’s going to limit them. And they’re like, oh, but I’m multi-passionate I want to do all these different things. But the mistake and that can be mistake number two is like, it’s okay to do multiple things, to have a big career, but do one thing at a time. So I was first working in-house in mobile games. I did that for three years. Then I left and I did picture books for three years.
Miriam Schulman:: And I pause because, um, my assistant, who you may have interacted with, Anna, she is a huge gamer. In fact, we always say we have to use her computer for certain things because it’s like the fastest and the best computer. So which games have you worked on so that we can find out if she’s played those games that you’ve worked on?
Vanessa Stoilova: Probably not, but she may have bought some of them for her kids.
Miriam Schulman:: Oh they’re kids.
Vanessa Stoilova: Absolutely. So that was mobile games like for iPad and phone for kids. But the pretty big mobile games for kids like My Little Pony, Strawberry Shortcake, some pretty big ones.
Miriam Schulman:: Beautiful. Okay. And I know I interrupted you, so let’s get back. So then you went from games. So. So then it was like going from children’s games. Did you go to children’s picture books?
Vanessa Stoilova: Exactly. So actually, I moved, and that’s why I. I quit my job. I wasn’t able to find a studio job in my new city. So I decided, well, I’m just going to be self-employed. And from there it was kind of an easy step to go from children’s content to children’s content. So I went into picture books and I thought I was going to do this for the rest of my life. But after three years, I was getting a bit antsy. I wasn’t really liking it anymore, and I decided to change. And we’re allowed to do that. We can change our mind.
Miriam Schulman:: Yes. And one thing that’s very similar to what you’re sharing, that I also share with my artists who are fine artists, is that there are those who might be there doing pottery and painting. And I say, look, you can experiment all you want, but even Picasso only did one thing at a time. So he did sculpture and painting, but only one at a time. Because exactly what you’re saying. First of all, it’s hard to gain mastery if you keep context switching, but it’s also very confusing to your collectors and a confused mind doesn’t buy. Just like you said, when you’re approaching a manufacturer or a licensing agent or what would you call the people you work with?
Vanessa Stoilova: I would call them art directors.
Miriam Schulman:: Art directors. Okay. So when you go to an art director, the art directors are kind of like your customers. They’re if they’re confused by you, they’ll move on to somebody who doesn’t confuse them.
Vanessa Stoilova: Exactly. And art directors can be incredibly specific. Like, let’s say you have an art director working in a publishing company, and they’re going to make a picture books about foxes. They’re going to pick the artist that has foxes in their portfolio and who does picture book illustration, because then they know exactly what they’re going to get. So it can be as specific as that.
Miriam Schulman:: You know, it’s funny how many things are very similar to though fine art, because I do tell my artists who are portrait artists who do pet portraits. I said, if you want work as a pet portrait artist, you have to have as many different breeds in your portfolio as possible. Because even though you know you can paint any dog your customer, if they don’t, if they have a bulldog and there’s no bulldog in your portfolio, they’re moving on. So it’s so funny that you said that.
Vanessa Stoilova: They can’t imagine it. And even art directors who you would think can picture it in their minds, they really can’t. And it’s big projects with really big budgets. A picture book that can be anywhere from 10,000 to $20,000. It’s a lot of money and it’s their career on the line. If they pick someone who doesn’t do a good job. So they want to see exactly what they’re going to get. Absolutely. So it’s kind of this weird balance of you need to be extremely specified and specialize in one thing, but within that thing you want to show as much variety as possible.
Miriam Schulman:: So dig a very deep hole in your niche.
Vanessa Stoilova: Mhm. Exactly. And that’s that’s also another reason that if you’re trying to showcase things from multiple markets at a time, you maybe only have 2 or 3 pieces to showcase that market, and that’s not going to be enough variety to hit all of those boxes that the art director is looking to tick before they hire you. You really need all the pieces in your portfolio to show the full picture that you’re right for this job.
Miriam Schulman:: Okay, so if you want to let’s say you want to be an illustrator with children’s book with animals, you better get the whole zoo in there. Yes. Hey, artists, if you realize that maybe you’re too close to your own art to explain it powerfully, you’re not alone. That’s exactly why I created the Artpreneur messaging Intensive Plus Vault. It is a one on one session where we craft the right words. The words, the exact words that you need to describe who you are, what you do, and why your art matters. Without sounding salesy, without sounding awkward and definitely not generic, you’re going to walk away with a custom magnetic messaging vault customized just for you. You’ll walk away knowing how to explain what you do and why. You’ll walk away with emails that collectors actually want to read, and you’ll know exactly how to pitch. Galleries, the press, illustrators, manufacturers, whatever type of artist you are. It’s all about how to craft that story. This is not just another set of templates. It’s your truth translated and transmuted into words. Words that connect and convert artists tell me it’s like you pulled this from my soul. Ready for a message that finally matches your art? To grab your spot, go to SchulmanArt.com. And now let’s get back to the show.
Vanessa Stoilova: Some of the popular themes that show up a lot in picture books. You know, all the the children’s activities, you know, school, zoo. You need to draw a lot of children because those will come up in picture books. You need to showcase a variety of emotions, a variety of locations inside, outside, a variety of animals, especially pets. Those come up a lot.
Miriam Schulman:: Cats and dogs. Birds?
Vanessa Stoilova: Yeah, as many as you can.
Miriam Schulman:: Okay. And there’s always like trending animals, which I think is so interesting. Like I remember now. We’re going back like six years ago, my friend Blenda, who I’ve had on the podcast, she was interested in doing illustration and she says, you know, Miriam Llamas and alpacas are going to be really big this year. It’s like, really?
Vanessa Stoilova: And then they had a moment.
Miriam Schulman:: Everywhere you look there were alpacas. And then there was like the sloths. And I think sloths are still popular. And then. So what are some trending animals right now.
Vanessa Stoilova: Yeah. So that’s not that relevant in picture books but in service okay. Not so much in picture books, but in service design. We’re all about trends because we’re illustrating for products. So, you know, the alpacas and llamas and sloths. That’s calmed down a little bit right now. Cats are really big cats. And dogs have always been kind of equal. But right now the cats are winning. And then there are things that you just keep seeing over and over again for a few seasons. Like right now, bows are absolutely everywhere. Those everywhere. All the time.
Miriam Schulman:: Those like hair bows.
Vanessa Stoilova: Yeah, or like little bows. And you can put them in any context. Bows for Christmas. Bows for Easter. Bows for birthday. Just bows everywhere.
Miriam Schulman:: Okay. And do you think that the cats have anything to do with that animated movie flow? Or do you have any explanation for why cats are popular now?
Vanessa Stoilova: I am not sure. Sometimes I can trace it. Like for example, after the Barbie movie we started doing a lot of pink. So that’s definitely related. But sometimes just something shows up and you’re like, I don’t know why, but all the companies are requesting this right now. So you just kind of go with it like sardines. What cans of cans of sardines have been requested a lot. And the first time a company comes up with a request like this, you’re like, what are they smoking? I don’t understand, but then all the other companies also ask this, and you’re like, I guess it’s on trend. I guess sardines are happening.
Miriam Schulman:: Okay, so I think we’re up to mistake number three.
Vanessa Stoilova: Right? So we got on a tangent there.
Miriam Schulman:: Yes, we did, but that these tangents are so delicious.
Vanessa Stoilova: Yes. That’s why we’re here. Mistake number three I would say, is being too afraid to start reaching out to companies. And so I think that’s kind of universal for all artists no matter what we do. But especially there’s something really scary about just sending an email to a company with our portfolio. They just seem like so above our level no matter where we are. I still feel like this sometimes, so it can be really outside of our comfort zone. But if we just post to Instagram and we never directly reach out to people, things just don’t happen. We need to really be proactive and send out our work. That’s how deals happen.
Miriam Schulman:: Okay, I know what my listeners are thinking. Two questions that they’re thinking right now. One is, what do you say? And the other thing that they’re asking, they’re wondering is, well, how much art do I need before I reach out? So the second question is probably the easier one to answer. And the first question, I think you’re going to have to sign up for Vanessa’s course to find the answer to that. Is that right?
Vanessa Stoilova: Well, I can give you some pointers.
Miriam Schulman:: So perfect.
Vanessa Stoilova: Okay. To start with, 12 pieces is good enough.
Miriam Schulman:: Excellent. That’s what I tell people when they have to approach a gallery. They’re like, how many? I was like, I don’t know, a collection 10 to 2012. Like, you know, it’s great. Beautiful.
Vanessa Stoilova: Exactly. I mean, ten is really the minimum. Yeah. At 12 you look well rounded and you can add you can add stuff as you go until you have maybe 20 to 25. Then at that point you don’t want it to be too overbloated as well, because your portfolio is only as good as your weakest piece. So at some point, every time you add something new, you remove something that’s not as good to keep the level up.
Miriam Schulman:: I love that. Okay. And yes, the same advice applies to fine artists because I’m always telling them there’s too much on your website.
Vanessa Stoilova: Mhm.
Miriam Schulman:: Especially photographers because they’re so prolific. And remember we said a confused mind never buys. So don’t show them your bad stuff.
Vanessa Stoilova: Nope.
Miriam Schulman:: Don’t show them the stuff from 2020 either. Like they’re not.
Vanessa Stoilova: Exactly. Because the art director is going through your portfolio going, oh, that’s really good. Nice. And then they see the bad piece and they’re like, oh, what happened there? Is that the quality I can expect if I hire this person? Are the other ones a fluke? You’d show the doubt in their mind. And you don’t just remove it. You don’t need it. Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:: Wow. That’s so interesting. Okay. And then we’re promising a few pointers on what to say. I mean, I think what I would want to know is if I were sending it out, it’s not even so much what to say, but are you sending them a link to a portfolio? Are you embedding the pictures in the email? What are you doing?
Vanessa Stoilova: Right. So I wouldn’t recommend sending attachments because that can really blow up their inbox. They receive so many emails embedded like one image embedded. That’s okay. It can be kind of like a little teaser. You don’t want to put like all 12 right there in the email, just one that you’ve reduced in size and resolution previously so that it won’t be too big just to make them want to click on your link. So you send them to your portfolio and what you say really isn’t that important. Short is good because there’s such busy people. They don’t want to read a novel. They might actually just click straight to your website and if they like it, they might come back and actually read, you know your name and where you’re from.
Miriam Schulman:: Okay.
Vanessa Stoilova: So let your art do the speaking and keep it short.
Miriam Schulman:: Okay, so basically clickbaity email that takes them to an irresistible portfolio that’s well curated.
Vanessa Stoilova: Exactly.
Miriam Schulman:: You okay?
Vanessa Stoilova: That’s a great summary.
Miriam Schulman:: All right. So that was tip three. Don’t be afraid to start reaching out. What is our biggest mistake. Number four.
Vanessa Stoilova: That would be not following up because a lot of artists, they send that first email and then they wait. They’re like oh. And then the most common thing that happens is they don’t hear back. Not even a rejection, but just not hearing back. That’s super common. And so artists are so dejected that they never reach out again. But that first email is just the first point of contact. It’s like It’s like imagining that you’re going to get married with someone the first time you meet them. You have to work your way up to that. You have to keep hitting them up. Deals happen in the third, fourth, fifth email, and it’s not even about how many different companies you contact. It’s about how many times you contact the same company. You have to wear them down.
Miriam Schulman:: Okay. An artist, it’s the same thing is true with galleries and also people who say they’re interested in your art. You make them say no to you. You do not say no for them. Silence is not a no.
Vanessa Stoilova: And exactly.
Miriam Schulman:: There is going to be a whole podcast, by the way, on the follow up because I totally I don’t know about you, Vanessa, but I myself will make decisions based on how poorly or how well somebody follows up with me. You do that.
Vanessa Stoilova: I admit I do sometimes too.
Miriam Schulman:: Yeah, I have, I have a very fat manual. How people should behave in this world like that has gotten longer and longer. Now that I’m 56, this is a very fat manual. So when they don’t follow up with me, I’m like, oh, too bad for them. Like firing somebody else.
Vanessa Stoilova: I mean, in the art world, we have to be persistent. We have to be go getters. And someone who just sends one email then immediately gives up. What does that say about you? You know, you have to try harder than that. And I know it’s scary. And I know that we get really hurt in our feelings. And that’s why we, you know, we don’t want to put ourselves out there again. We don’t want to risk a rejection, but we have to get those rejections. We have to get them in.
Miriam Schulman:: Yeah. Does collect rejections have rejection goals for the month? Like you’re going to get 100 no’s because the only way you’re going to get that yes is to start collecting those. Okay. Love it.
Vanessa Stoilova: And you can’t be right for everyone. Even if you’re the best illustrator in the world, you won’t fit every project. So you’re still going to get a lot of no’s. It’s part of the business. You just you have to get really comfortable with that. And I know that comes with practice at first. You’re not going to be comfortable with that. You’re going to get hurt. And then the amount of times, the amount of times, Miriam, that I followed up with an art director and they told me, oh, I thought I’d followed up with you, but I forgot. So sometimes it’s not even that they want to reject you, it’s that they forgot to hit you back.
Miriam Schulman:: Because a lot of art directors are probably artsy people like us who, like, responded in their mind instead of it instead of hitting send.
Vanessa Stoilova: Exactly. And on top of that, they’re just incredibly busy people and their their full time job is working on their projects and putting those projects, you know, on the shelves and answering back to all the portfolios that they receive. That’s secondary. If they have time and they receive hundreds of them, you know, so they don’t have time to get back to everyone, but they see you and they see your name, and they see you popping back month after month and they’re like, oh, that person, you know, she has it. She’s persistent. She keeps coming back. She has good stuff. So when they do have a project on their desk that’s perfect for you, they’re going to remember you.
Miriam Schulman:: Fantastic. When we come back, we’re going to talk about mistake number five. But first these words. Hey, let’s get real. For so many artists, the hardest part is not making the art. It’s not building your portfolio. It’s talking about it. Your about page, your artist statement, your cover letter for that art director. It’s a snooze fest. And your Instagram captions, they might sound stiff. And when someone asks you what your work is about, you freeze. That’s why I created the Artpreneur Messaging Intensive and vault. It doesn’t matter if you’re a commercial artist, a fine artist, or a surface pattern designer, you need to know how to talk about your art in a way that you can stand out from everybody else. So in this one power packed session, we’ll uncover the real story behind your art and put it into words that feel like you. Not watered down. Not copy pasted. Oh, and definitely not templated. You’re gonna leave with clear messaging for your website, your pitches, and your posts. A complete language bank. That’s why I call it a vault that you can use over and over again. And best of all, the confidence to finally show up as the artist you’ve become. This is not marketing fluff, it’s a reset button you didn’t even know you need it. Let’s make sure that your voice matches your vision. Head on over to SchulmanArt.com. To book your session today. And now let’s get back to the show. All right, Vanessa, now we’re running the base. We’re up to the last common mistake. Number five.
Vanessa Stoilova: I think common mistake number five would be not thinking enough about the needs of your customer. In this case, the company that that you want to work with. We often think a lot about the art that we like to make, what we like to draw, and we don’t think about the end user or our customer enough. And that can manifest in a whole lot of different ways, you know, not showing the right skills in our portfolio or when we’re making the art, not making it perfectly adapted to our target audience. It’s a hard balance for us because we have to do it our way because that’s our special sauce. It’s what helps us stand out from the competition. But if we only think inwards and we never think about the person we’re making it for, we always miss the mark. And in illustration, it’s commercial. It has to be marketable. So we have to think about who this is for.
Miriam Schulman:: Love that. Okay. All right. So you have dropped so much golden knowledge here today. And it was so exciting to talk to you. Where can our listeners find you if they want to learn more about illustration.
Vanessa Stoilova: So a great place is my YouTube channel because it’s completely free. You can get a bunch of tips right there. So this is art business Fitness on YouTube. And then if you’re interested in commercial illustration and you’d like to get started, as we mentioned before, mistake number one is not focusing enough. You have to pick a specialty. It’s your first step and I have a free training to pick your market, so I think I gave the link to you. You’re probably going to put it in the show notes or something.
Miriam Schulman:: But let me read it out loud just for people who are listening. Here we go. Your first step to illustration clients is art business with Nescom. Three day class. And that’s the number three day class. We will link it in all of the show notes. Art business with Nescom. Three day class.
Vanessa Stoilova: Yes. And that’s really juicy. It’s not like watered down free training. It’s basically everything that I tell my students about picking a market. There’s even a workbook. And if you send that workbook to me, I will review it for free too. I’m really going to help you get started out there.
Miriam Schulman:: Well that’s amazing. Okay. Do you have any last words for our listeners slash watchers when this eventually goes to YouTube? Before we call this whatever we’re calling this complete.
Vanessa Stoilova: Right. Well, I mean, if I’ve piqued your interest, try out commercial illustrations. It’s just there’s so many ways to make a living as an artist. There’s so many different paths. Maybe commercial illustration isn’t something that you thought about before, but if it has piqued your interest, it’s a really lucrative way to be an artist. So maybe it’s right for you.
Miriam Schulman:: All right. Okay, Vanessa. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We were so excited to have you. All right, everyone, so thank you for joining me. I’ll see you the same time same place next week. Until then, stay inspired. Bye for now.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/SchulmanArt, on Instagram at @SchulmanArt, and of course, on SchulmanArt.com.
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