THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Jan Schmuckal:
Hi, I’m artist Jan Schmuckal. And you’re listening to the Inspiration Place podcast with Miriam Schulman.
Speaker 2:
It’s the Inspiration Place podcast with artists Miriam Schulman. Welcome to the Inspiration Place podcast and art world inside the podcast for artists by artists where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the art. And now, your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman:
Hello. This is your host, artist, Miriam Schulman, and you’re listening to episode number eight of the Inspiration Place Podcast. I am so thrilled that you are here. Today I’ve invited an artist whom I’ve known for a long time, but his success never fails to amaze me. She runs her own art gallery, but you’ll never see her art there since all of her pieces sell within hours of being posted online on Facebook. This artist doesn’t use Instagram, not Pinterest, she doesn’t bother with blogs and you might get an email from her once a year. She has built a raving collector base who hungrily await her next offering. So in this episode, we’re going to discuss why focusing on a signature style builds your collector base, how to accept commissions without pulling your hair out or losing your mind, and how to find that sweet spot for pricing your art.
Miriam Schulman:
But before we get there, I wanted to ask you a question. Are you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode and I’m adding a bunch of bonus episodes to the mix. So if you’re not subscribed, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on those. Now if you have an Apple device, all you have to do is go to schulmanart.com/iTunes and click the purple subscribe button. I’ve also added instructions for listening to podcasts on any device over at the inspirationplace.net/podcast.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, now if you’re feeling extra loving, I would really be grateful if you left me a review over on iTunes too. Those reviews help other people find my podcast. And they’re also just fun for me to read. So again, go to schulmanart.com/iTunes and select ratings and reviews. And click write a review and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. That helps me know what you want me to focus on in the future.
Miriam Schulman:
All right, now, back to the show. If you’re chomping at the bit to hear from today’s artist, you don’t have to wait any longer. This artist sells all of her art by simply posting a picture on Facebook with the size and a link to her website. She boost the post for a few dollars and sells these within hours. Please welcome to the Inspiration Place artist Jan Schmuckal. Jan, welcome to the show. You are so amazing, how do you do it?
Jan Schmuckal:
I am more puzzled than anybody else why I have the following that I do. Okay. I am grateful for it on a daily basis. But I am as puzzled as can humanly be. Why? I’m not any better or worse of an artist and I’ll then … 90% of the people whose work I have in the gallery yet, the only thing I can think of is that what I do has a lot of contrast in it, which is the antithesis of what tonalism is theoretically supposed to be. But a lot of people don’t do that. And maybe it’s that that people react, I don’t know, I have no clue.
Miriam Schulman:
See, Jan, I think the reason you’re so successful is because you’re willing to commit to this style. You’re willing to commit to this genre. You’re willing to do another sunset painting.
Jan Schmuckal:
Oh, God. Don’t include this, my groaning.
Miriam Schulman:
I refuse to edit this out.
Jan Schmuckal:
Don’t include my groaning.
Miriam Schulman:
I will cut out your groaning maybe. Okay, so let’s begin.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes, I’m working on the third, no fourth moon painting in a row. Go ahead. Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Someday I would like to collect your art by the way. One of those smaller paintings before you throw it up on the website for your folks, I mean, I’ll pay what you’re asking, I’m not expecting a discount, but I do, I’d like one of your paintings.
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay. I will bear that in mind.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. Probably a sunset themed.
Jan Schmuckal:
Of course. Okay.
Miriam Schulman:
With a tree in front of it.
Jan Schmuckal:
Tree. Yeah, you want the sun in a ball? Or do you care? Or do you want-
Miriam Schulman:
Of course the sun with a ball.
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay, you want the sun ball thing? Okay, with the water?
Miriam Schulman:
With the brown trees in front of it.
Jan Schmuckal:
Trees and you want the trees with the water? With the reflections? Yeah, you want that too?
Miriam Schulman:
No, you know what, I don’t know if I have done the water. I’ll have to look at your different tropes. Okay, for our listeners, who are unfamiliar with your art, what is tonalism?
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay, tonalism is style, I suppose or genre of painting that was more or less, not completely but more or less developed in the United States during the same timeframe that impressionism was happening over in Europe, although there was crossover with both, it kind of was an offshoot of the Hudson River Valley artists and how those big panoramic paintings look with all the sunsets and the Hudson Valley and the trees and the wildlife and all that stuff, I think distilled down to its essence is what tonalism ended up being. And there were some tonalist artists that started here and moved over to Europe and some impressionist artists from Europe that came over here and started being influenced by tonalism.
Jan Schmuckal:
And so when people refer to tonalism and Impressionism, there’s a lot of crossover of the people. And you might look at an impressionist painting and think it’s more tonalist than impressionistic. Or you might look at a tonalist painting and think it’s impressionistic. It’s splitting hairs in a lot of ways. But what the tonalist paintings focus on is the light and the dark, and it’s not about a particular subject necessarily. It’s more about using a limited palette of tones within a certain color range and that kind of thing.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, so let me just stop you there and unpack a few things. The first thing when I think I of impressionists and we’ll talk about the big ones Monet, and then even going beyond Monet, like say … There are people who are post impressionist, all those French impressionist Renoir, Pissarro, they all painted with a very pastel color palette, whereas your painting and I don’t know if this is true of just your painting or the tonalism, but you just said something very interesting there about the limited color palette. So your painting has more like an earth tone range to it.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
I mean, if you were to take a whole room of French impressionist and stick your painting in, it would definitely stand out. Yeah. So you want to talk about that. Is that specific to you? Or is that part of the tonalist-
Jan Schmuckal:
Well, it’s specific to me because I call myself a tonal-impressionist or a tonalist impressionist, primarily because when I was simply doing, quote unquote, straight tonalist stuff, and this has to do with our forays on eBay way back, I would pay attention to those pieces that got more bids than not, I suppose, meaning that they were more what people were looking for and I came to determine that the ones that had a little more color in them we’re the ones that people liked. So I brought in some of the impressionistic methodology that way, it’s a little bit of both of those things.
Jan Schmuckal:
And I suppose that’s why people like what I do, and it has a tendency to look a little bit like an illustration, in some ways sometimes, sometimes not. One of the most famous tonalist so I will say just so people can get an idea of what a tonal was painting, a real tonalist painting is, is Whistler’s Mother. That is the world’s most famous tonalist painting. Whistler was a tonalist and everything else he did if you go look it up, it really reeks of tonalism. And it was interesting seeing the movie that they did about that. Anyway-
Miriam Schulman:
What movie is that?
Jan Schmuckal:
I’ve forgotten the name of it. Whistler’s Mother is definitely a tonalist painting it’s not actually called that, it’s I think a study in black and gray or something.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, he definitely floored trying to find all the different shades of white. So that definitely goes with what you were talking about of picking a very limited color palette and exploring what you can do. I think that also is what gives your art such appeal is that because you’re working in this earth tone with limited palette, it makes it very easy to incorporate into certain decorating styles and one thing that you landed upon which I see that’s part of your whole branding is how well it fits into arts and crafts decorating style.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yeah. Well, that was not necessarily by design. But that’s a whole other story. I could take credit for that but I shouldn’t.
Miriam Schulman:
Can you share the story because-
Jan Schmuckal:
Oh briefly.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Jan Schmuckal:
Well, the reason why I started working down the tonalist avenue, I suppose is because I own an art gallery. And right before I opened, it took me forever to figure everything out and get all the software and stuff. So as a result, I did buy some pieces off of eBay and from some artists online just to have this filler on the walls so that I wasn’t asking all of my friends who were really getting tired of waiting for me to open my gallery. And it was taking too long. I didn’t want them to think okay, they’re hitting their work over to somebody who has no clue what they’re doing. Well anyway, so one of the people’s work that I found was a fellow named Dennis Shin, and I bought, I don’t know, six or seven of his paintings, no, maybe eight. And I was amazed at watching people come in the door of the gallery, and they would just stop and look at his work.
Jan Schmuckal:
And I thought okay … Prior to that I was really a colorist. And I used huge brushes and painted impressionistically in the hope that … So I was watching this happen, and I thought well, what is he doing? Dennis Shin, so I was watching all these gallery customers come in and they would just stop and stare and stare and stare and it happened one after the other. I thought okay, so being that I had his work here, I would just … I took a look at it closely like we as artists do when you’re trying to figure out what somebody else is doing, saw that his son looked like for school project had recorded a couple of videos of dad painting. And so, I watched some of those and I went, okay, that’s what he’s doing. And that’s where it started from there. And then I’ve developed my own thing from that.
Miriam Schulman:
So he was basically an influence to the style you have now.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yeah. And it was simply because…. No and I don’t if you look at what he does and what I do, they don’t even look the same. But it was-
Miriam Schulman:
And I’m sure he doesn’t have 100 of boards on Pinterest named after him like-
Jan Schmuckal:
No, he doesn’t. Anyway, that’s kind of … I bought the paintings from his wife not directly from him by the way. It was just one of these things where seeing person after person after person, just stop in their tracks and look at something.
Miriam Schulman:
How did that lead you to knowing the fits into the arts and crafts decorating style?
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay, that has to do with the other story.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. That was the story I wanted though.
Jan Schmuckal:
The story, yes, okay. So like you I sold my work on eBay for some years and round about 2009 I had a lady contact me after buying a painting and she wanted to commission me to do a larger painting for her. And I said, okay, and I come to find out that … I’m not going to say her name, although I think she has passed away at this point, but I just don’t want to cause any legal problems.
Miriam Schulman:
Let’s call her Linda.
Jan Schmuckal:
Linda. Okay, yeah, that’s far enough away. Okay. So Linda, contacted me and come to find out that she … I knew who she was because a very good friend of mine had one of her prints hanging over her mantle for ever upon ever. She was one of the few artists in the revival of the arts and crafts movement who was doing work in nowadays contemporarily. Being that I found out this woman’s name and I knew who she was, I asked her after she had commissioned me to do this painting for her. Well, I was wondering why you famous artist, come asking me artist nobody’s ever heard of in their life to do a commission for you and you’re talking to me now about doing more commissions. And she told me that, she said she had MS and that she was no longer painting and she had moved in with her boyfriend and the boyfriend had three houses and all this. So she fed me a good story. She was sending me pictures of walls in their house.
Miriam Schulman:
Wait, this is the story?
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
This is a good story.
Jan Schmuckal:
This story … This is why I know. Okay, so because of all of this, and she kept commissioning me to do more paintings for her. And she kept buying paintings of mine from eBay right away. And this went on for over a year and yeah, she definitely was my best customer. And I want to say that between the two things and some of the paintings that she commissioned me to do are quite large, about five feet wide and two feet tall, and some big square things. Anyway, after about a year she had amassed, I believe I counted them up somewhere between 35 and 40 paintings in a year. That’s a lot.
Miriam Schulman:
Is that when you started to get suspicious or not yet?
Jan Schmuckal:
I well, yeah-
Miriam Schulman:
Because you were just so happy she was buying.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yeah, I didn’t actually count them up until after I was alerted by a fellow, another guy who bought my work on eBay, and he actually does have a gallery in California. And he said that he happened to be at a show, and he saw one of my paintings with somebody else’s name on it. And I said to him, which show was that? No clue. He thought that I was painting under a pseudonym. And that it was me. And I said, no. And so he finally told me what show it was. And I called the show promoter and I got the vendor list and I went through the vendor list and everybody looked beyond reproach. And so the only recourse I had … and this was some … there took a couple of months between those two things. So the only thing I really could do was post a notice on my Facebook page saying, “Hi folks, if you happen to see a painting of mine and it’s got somebody else’s name signed on it, would you please let me know, thanks.” What else could you say? I mean, I don’t know.
Miriam Schulman:
So Jan, when you went to that show producer, whatever the person was, curator, show producer, whatever, so the person who then-
Jan Schmuckal:
They would not give … Yeah, they had to physically mail me a list, because that was public record they had to ask their attorneys. It was crazy.
Miriam Schulman:
Wait, so you couldn’t find out who’s was signing their name and that person who had been signing their name wasn’t listed as a vendor?
Jan Schmuckal:
Yeah, I had to do my own research from the vendor list, which they had to physically mail me.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, but that person who had been buying your paintings on eBay wasn’t listed as a vendor?
Jan Schmuckal:
Correct. She was not.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, I think now we’re getting to the big reveal of what’s happening. So was she signing her name or somebody else’s name?
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay, so here’s what Linda, remember Linda?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, I think we’re saying Linda because there’s some sort of legal non disclosure.
Jan Schmuckal:
No, I don’t know if she’s still with us or not. Anyway, and I don’t know where this podcast is going to land and I don’t want legal trouble. Anyway so-
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, well, either no one’s going to listen to it or have money-
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay, all right, whatever, you never know. Okay.
Miriam Schulman:
Thousands of downloads later. Okay.
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay, so Linda, I didn’t know it was Linda, by the way. I just knew it was one of my paintings and again I was selling stuff on eBay. It could have been anybody.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Your mind was going to this person who had bought 30 to 40, you just think somebody and you don’t know if it’s somebody-
Jan Schmuckal:
No, what happened was, one day I got a phone call from the fellow who bought the painting that the other guy in California had seen. And this fellow is a collector of sorts. I’m not a big collector of things like this, but there are people out there who if they find a new acquisition they are like, I guess, people that go out hunting where they’ll take pictures of something that they have just bagged. Okay, so they’ve got a new thing and they bring it home, and they put it where it’s going to go and they take a picture and they show it to all their friends. This is the coolest thing ever. And I want you to see it. So he did that and he said he had just gotten a new original painting by Linda and another-
Miriam Schulman:
Sorry.
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay. Yeah, just bagged an original painting by Linda. And another of my customers who would buy things off of eBay by the way, who knew me. And she had quite a few herself was also one of his friends saw his post and said, “Excuse me, you don’t have a painting by Linda, you have a painting by Jan”.
Miriam Schulman:
Mm-hmm.
Jan Schmuckal:
And he became irate thinking that I was a scammer, and so he called me. So that was when I actually found out about who it was, and what it was, and where it was, and all that stuff. And I really didn’t know it was Linda.
Miriam Schulman:
So the person who is buying your paintings, she was signing her name on-
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay, okay-
Miriam Schulman:
Or was she signing a pseudo name and just-
Jan Schmuckal:
No, she was signing her name to them.
Miriam Schulman:
And you said she was an artist herself, right?
Jan Schmuckal:
Oh of some renown.
Miriam Schulman:
She just decided her new style was tonalism.
Jan Schmuckal:
Which … Yeah, and what she was known for it looks nothing, nothing, nothing like what I do. Nothing.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, you signed your name to the paintings, right?
Jan Schmuckal:
Of course I did.
Miriam Schulman:
So she would have to paint over your signature in some color?
Jan Schmuckal:
Nope, here’s what she did. She took solvent, and paintbrush or a Q tip or something and she rubbed out my name in paint and then in the wet paint, looks like she took like the back end of the brush or something. And she inscribed her name down to the canvas where mine was. And I actually have two of these three, two, I know I have at least two of them here in my possession. I saw what she did.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Jan Schmuckal:
And she on the back of each painting I would sign copyright Jan, and a title and all that stuff and she actually would take paint and paint over that. And write her own different title and all that stuff. And She was sending these things out, believe it or not with a certificate of authenticity.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh my god.
Jan Schmuckal:
For real. Anyway. Yeah, with a little gold seal and the whole bit yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
This is like reverse forgery.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes, exactly.
Miriam Schulman:
Like most people would like make a painting sign your name to it, right?
Jan Schmuckal:
Right. But see she was the one who had the fame. So I and subsequently I looked at the work that she was known for. And turns out she was basically using an overhead projector and copying somebody else. Anyway, the gist of it is most of the people who had been buying my stuff on eBay plus this fellow and the fellow who became irate, they called me about his, quote unquote Linda painting that found out he wasn’t he basically kind of became my knight in shining armor.
Miriam Schulman:
Mm-hmm.
Jan Schmuckal:
And he went out of his way. God bless him. He went out of his way to help me promote my own stuff and to blast Linda.
Miriam Schulman:
How much? okay, because I know other people have the same question. How much was she marking your stuff up for?
Jan Schmuckal:
10 times.
Miriam Schulman:
Wow. Did you raise your prices after that?
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes, but not all at once.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay. I’m about now, eight years later, up to about what she was doing.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, so remember we talked about how I want to collect on your paintings. How much is a 10 by 10 inch painting going to set me back?
Jan Schmuckal:
Well, it depends. Okay, let me back up a little bit.
Miriam Schulman:
All right.
Jan Schmuckal:
This has to do with the why’s and wherefores-
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, we have to finish Linda’s story anyway.
Jan Schmuckal:
Sold by a woodworker who would go to shows and he was selling … He had a relationship with her, prior with her work that she did Princes after she had done her little magic trick on my paintings with writing her name on them and stuff. She would send them to him and he would frame them and take them to shows. Okay. That’s how he ended up in his booth.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Jan Schmuckal:
But these shows are particularly targeted toward the arts and crafts double cheese.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. And so they were framed with that style.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s why you started doing that.
Jan Schmuckal:
Well, it’s why I started focusing on it. It isn’t necessarily-
Miriam Schulman:
Well, Thank you Linda.
Jan Schmuckal:
The tonalist movement in some ways coincided the arts and crafts movement so it all happened about the same time, Donna, she and I was standing. I think it’s still with us.
Miriam Schulman:
Because I have to say so for people who aren’t familiar with Jan’s work and I definitely encourage you to check it out. There’ll be a link in the show notes to her website. The colors that you use, actually like the colors that people use for their exterior paint on this houses because I do house portrait and somebody had requested to use like the such and such green or the such and such purple or whatever, it looks like Jan’s art. Not that you’re using house paint.
Jan Schmuckal:
I’m not using house paint.
Miriam Schulman:
I know that you only use oil paint, of course.
Jan Schmuckal:
Somewhat limited ballot, but anyway-
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Sorry.
Jan Schmuckal:
As a result, I then developed a relationship. Because of all of this junk happening, I developed a relationship with the same woodworker. So now he is taking my work instead of Linda’s to the shows and selling the work and I suppose because of that and some other cut, and the fact that this fellow was championing me to other people I took out an ad in the American bungalow magazine and I had one in there for a while and he’s kind of tied into the who’s who, of that little niche of people. And so he put me in contact with the right things to do and people to talk to and places to advertise and all that fun stuff. It’s a small group of people. It’s not like the arts and crafts movement or the mission furniture, it was popular back in the 90s, early 90s, late 80s, I mean, you couldn’t turn around but you’d see something, sears, they even had stuff. But now it’s kind of fallen out of favor, but the people who are really into it, are really into it. And those are the people that seem to be attracted to my work. I don’t know what to say other than that, I mean, there are, I guess that there are that many artists doing work in that vein.
Miriam Schulman:
You are committed to a style like I said before.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
You are working in a niche.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
Where there are irrationally passionate collectors.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
So just like this guy was a collector who wants to brag to his community about what he has, they are also collecting a certain kind of furniture and a certain kind of pottery and a certain kind of house-
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes. This are the people that will pay $4,000 to $5,000 for a vase, yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly. So you are working in a niche that is passionate about collecting and then you are offering something that is going to make their collection look better by putting the art over it.
Jan Schmuckal:
Right.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Jan Schmuckal:
Now what else is there out there like that? There probably are things?
Miriam Schulman:
There are but the thing that you have to understand and this is harder for us as artists to understand like we are good at visualizing like well, you could put anything over that vase in that table and it just has to be the right cost. But you are closing the gap for them by showing the art and describing the art in the terms that make it obvious to them that this is the missing piece for their living room to complete and enhance what they’ve already been collecting.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes. The other thing too is it became kind of … I’m a victim of my own success. This fella that would go to the shows with his frames, he’d sell all my paintings. When does that ever happen? That never happens.
Miriam Schulman:
Only you.
Jan Schmuckal:
It never happens, it doesn’t happen. Okay? But yet he may go back home to his shop with one or two maybe.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Jan Schmuckal:
But he’ll sell all of them and it just blows my mind. Sometimes I think because it … This is the kind of thing if you watch it the Hallmark Channel that’s where you see that. Okay, Hallmark Christmas movie.
Miriam Schulman:
The rest of us have like painting stacked up in our-
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes. Okay.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s what we talked about on a prior show is like what are these other artists that we’re all experimenting in different styles and now we have all this excess-
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay. I have the opposite problem. I have nothing.
Miriam Schulman:
We don’t feel sorry for you.
Jan Schmuckal:
I know.
Miriam Schulman:
You know that-
Jan Schmuckal:
But in some ways that’s bad because I do have people that call and say, “We’d like to come to your gallery and see some of your work”. Thinking like most normal people would Oh, let’s go to her gallery, surely she will have some of her work there that we might like one of those or we at least would like to see it. I have nothing. It’s-
Miriam Schulman:
Well you know what the solution is?
Jan Schmuckal:
On myself?
Miriam Schulman:
No, raise your prices. You have to raise your prices. And obviously if you’re selling out, then your prices are still too low.
Jan Schmuckal:
Well, it’s also something where I know where the bread and butter price point is for stuff, I know about there … I don’t want to push it. I’m not in the leagues of big city galleries-
Miriam Schulman:
Are you sure? I mean-
Jan Schmuckal:
I’m not, I’m not-
Miriam Schulman:
Are you sure it’s not a limiting belief because-
Jan Schmuckal:
No, because I don’t want to limit myself to hedge fund guys. If a hedge fund guy or hedge fund woman, that being politically incorrect there, wants one of my pieces, that’s fine. Okay. In fact, I’m working on one for one right now. But I also … Somebody really wants to pull the scratch together to be able to buy one of my paintings, and they’re a teacher or something and they want to save up for a small piece or something. I want them to be able to do that because it’s something where they have looked at my work forever, and they’re like, oh, okay, well, I would like you to be able to do it. I don’t want to price myself out of the stratosphere here either. And I do okay, it’s just it’s a time thing. But what I end up doing mostly is I have people contact me through my website to do what I call a commission, but isn’t really a commission. And I want to say I’ve got a pretty good batting average for doing this stuff for people, but I have them you know-
Miriam Schulman:
Let’s talk about that because I know your process pretty well and I think people be really interested. So again, talking about is that if somebody … You don’t do a normal commission.
Jan Schmuckal:
No, and let me say off the bat that I have done those in my life and it drives me bananas because the last thing I need or want is a micromanager.
Miriam Schulman:
I know.
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay? And that is the one thing that artists complain about, they like the thought of the commission thing and getting some money up front and all that but then inevitably, you’re going to run into nitpicking Nancy or nitpicking Nathan, who wants you to … Well, “Can you move this over a little bit?” Or “Can that be bigger?” Or well, “Can we change the color on that?” That just drives me nuts because it’s like it’s not done. You’re looking at it not done. And why don’t I show it to you when it’s done? And I’ll bet you like it. That’s what you’re thinking. That’s what I thought. And so what I did because I have the opposite problem from what most people have.
Jan Schmuckal:
I’ve told people, I’ve told prospective commission folks that I’m happy to do a painting for them. But I have them go on my website, or Facebook, or Etsy and pull a dozen images of mine that they like. And I don’t care why they like them. I don’t care if the subject matters is the same as the thing they’re looking for. What they pull kind of tells me there’s going to be some common threads through all of those, whether they’re very detailed, whether for example if it’s a sunset, whether or not they want the ball, the sun ball or if they just want you know, the sun has already set and it’s maybe dusk and you’ve got just the color. I mean-
Miriam Schulman:
I like those paintings of yours to where it’s not the ball, but you can just see the glow coming through.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes. And there are some people prefer that and there are some people that want the ball. Okay. So you know the ball, it’s like, all right, that’s a compositional element issue. And you’re like, Okay, well, wherever it is that that thing lands, that’s the center of interest so you got to work on anyway.
Miriam Schulman:
I also like your moon paintings.
Jan Schmuckal:
Well, thank you, it’s the same thing by the way.
Miriam Schulman:
But it’s silver.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yeah, all right. So I tell people to pick 12 paintings and I have them send me a photo of where the thing is going to go in their house, on the wall of wherever it’s going. So that I know roughly … I can look at the other stuff and the picture that they send roughly how big it is. And so I can look at all of those things and give them an estimate, if they say fine, then proceed ahead. And I do not charge them until after I have finished the painting. I don’t get any money up front, if they don’t like it and I just had one, by the way, well, actually they liked it, but I come to find out and I felt awful. I felt so bad.
Miriam Schulman:
What happened?
Jan Schmuckal:
It was the wife was … Let’s see, works full time, is pregnant and has a toddler all at once. And so she was not Johnny on the spot with responding to email and I thought with the non response that they didn’t like it, but now it turns out that she was just crazy with what was going on in her life.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Jan Schmuckal:
With a toddler and working full time.
Miriam Schulman:
Right, right, right, right.
Jan Schmuckal:
Right, so anyway, I ended up doing another painting for them which they loved and everything’s fine. It’s just I thought that she wasn’t responding because they didn’t like it-
Miriam Schulman:
We always make up these stories in our mind and meanwhile-
Jan Schmuckal:
I did have one of those recently and basically I just throw it up on my website and I marketed it to my subscriber folks, and on Facebook and I think it’s sold in three hours.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, wait, so okay. You sent them email and you didn’t hear back from them. So you’re like, Oh, I think they must not like it. So you put it on Facebook and then sold it to somebody else.
Jan Schmuckal:
No. I also sent them an email saying to them that I haven’t heard from them … It’s sentimental a couple, I haven’t heard from them and that generally my experience has been that when people don’t respond there’s a problem and it’s okay. I tell people, it’s okay, you can walk away, I can walk away. It’s alright, because you haven’t paid me any money.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Because there’s no contract-
Jan Schmuckal:
There’s no contract.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Not even a handshake.
Jan Schmuckal:
None.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. This is an email.
Jan Schmuckal:
Well, there’s a verbal agreement.
Miriam Schulman:
Right, Okay. So okay you sold that one and-
Jan Schmuckal:
Sold that one to somebody else.
Miriam Schulman:
And they came back to you and said “Actually, no no, we still want it”
Jan Schmuckal:
“We really liked it”. Well, anyway-
Miriam Schulman:
Do you mind painting the same thing again? Or what happened?
Jan Schmuckal:
I actually I didn’t. Because part of what I was hearing initially from them, why I thought they didn’t like it was I had marked up something on the wall for them. And I used one of my old paintings and I marked it up in Photoshop. And she gushed over it. And I thought well, this wasn’t what I was going to be painting for you. So the second time around I used that painting as the jumping off point for the one that I did. And they love the second one so that was fine. They were kind of ambivalent, I want to say about the first one, though they liked it, it was just kind of like, Well, it wasn’t what we were thinking. Because I had marked up this thing with this other painting … Mental note to self. If you send something, you got to send something that’s going to be somewhat similar to.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. If they like it then that’s-
Jan Schmuckal:
It’s kind of like when you think to yourself, hmm I’m really hungry for Chinese and the only thing that’s available is a Taco Bell.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Don’t get Taco Bell.
Jan Schmuckal:
Right. You want Chinese … That’s kind of what I really think it was. Anyway-
Miriam Schulman:
There’s something else we have to talk about now.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
Because again, you are just listing things on Facebook and that’s how you’re selling it. Right?
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes. And that has to do with the psychology of sold.
Miriam Schulman:
Mm-hmm – Tell us about that.
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay. Actually, there was a recent blog post on fine art online, I believe-
Miriam Schulman:
While you’re looking at that I’m going to look up how many Facebook followers you have because amazing to me is that you’re even able to do this with a small following, small but like-
Jan Schmuckal:
The concept is the psychology of sold because it’s the same thing if you go to the store and you have a selection of things available to you, that’s the same product and one of them is all sold out.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Jan Schmuckal:
That’s the one you want.
Miriam Schulman:
Of course.
Jan Schmuckal:
That’s it. There’s no other and why is that? Oh, everybody else got one, why didn’t I? I don’t know. You’re feeling left out. And that’s all it is.
Miriam Schulman:
I go crazy over things that are limited edition. Like if Chanel sends an email and tells me this lipstick is limited edition, I will buy it.
Jan Schmuckal:
Because there’s only so many of them.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah and also because it’s the only Chanel I can afford is the lipstick, that’s the other piece of it.
Jan Schmuckal:
Sure, but yeah, I really think that that’s what it is, I have a whole lot you know … Because I sold stuff on eBay like you. I have a lot of images that I can throw up on the website to show people paintings that I have done that they can look at. And I think that there is a great deal of value to that. I would never recommend that an artist simply have on the website what is currently available or available now. Because you got to put all your stuff on there too. And you put it all together kind of in a … If you really feel so inclined and want to go get a cup of coffee and go through all this junk.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Jan Schmuckal:
But I do think it’s important. So I have a lot of that on my website.
Miriam Schulman:
So people come to your website and they see everything sold out.
Jan Schmuckal:
It all is.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Jan Schmuckal:
The problem is and I would move everything over to a sold folder except … Remember the whole Linda thing?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay. Back to the fella who was trying to help me. He decided back when … He discovered Pinterest some years back. And so he decided to make up because he’s also again one of these collector fellas. He made up couple of three pages and one head, arts and crafts, furniture and decor and homes and that sort of thing and one had pottery and he decided he would really kind of do me a solid and he made one up that just had my work. He did. He didn’t tell me he was doing it.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, Okay. We’re going to pause here because I’m going to look up how many Pinterest boards there are-
Jan Schmuckal:
I lost track once it hit 100-
Miriam Schulman:
Wait, so you know there’s over 100 boards.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Not pins just so people understand-
Jan Schmuckal:
Boards.
Miriam Schulman:
But boards, people have boards dedicated to you.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. That blows my mind by the way.
Jan Schmuckal:
Frankly it’s a little creepy but it’s flattering.
Miriam Schulman:
It’s not creepy.
Jan Schmuckal:
A little creepy. Anyway-
Miriam Schulman:
It’s like having a Chanel board.
Jan Schmuckal:
I guess so. Okay.
Miriam Schulman:
I make it sound like I like Chanel I only have that lipstick. And then I also want to tell people-
Jan Schmuckal:
He started this and because he is again, one of these fellows in the know. He’s kind of a taste maker in that little niche, right?
Miriam Schulman:
Right.
Jan Schmuckal:
And because he is a taste maker, he had people following his Pinterest things And much like the lady Clairol TV ad, they told two friends and so on and so on. That’s kind of how-
Miriam Schulman:
So he was an influencer.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
Not just that he threw up a Pinterest board and he — like Martha Stewart of the arts and crafts-
Jan Schmuckal:
Well, not quite like that but anyway.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m trying to come up with he’s an influencer.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yeah, he’s an influencer.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Jan Schmuckal:
And again, we’re talking about very small group of people.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s what’s so amazing. That’s what’s so amazing because there’s all these blog posts and marketers all trying to teach people how to build their following. And you just post things on Facebook to your Facebook fan page to 4000 followers.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s all it is. Not to diminish that, for a lot of people I know 4000 is a lot. But most people would think you need 10 or 20 or 50,000 to have the kind of results that you have.
Jan Schmuckal:
No.
Miriam Schulman:
And you have 4000 and everything sells.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
It’s amazing.
Jan Schmuckal:
It helps to have … As you pointed out, a targeted … I don’t want to say targeted, to be appreciated by a niche of people who are passionate about this.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Jan Schmuckal:
That I really think is a key point. It’s not-
Miriam Schulman:
But sales could get sales too because it’s like they have learned that if they don’t pounce that it’s going to go in a couple of hours.
Jan Schmuckal:
Right.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Jan Schmuckal:
Pretty much. So yeah, passionate people are … That’s who I have tapped into. And that’s awesome.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And then I know people-
Jan Schmuckal:
I didn’t start out to do this, although I knew from my friend … Remember the Linda thing?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Jan Schmuckal:
My friend who had the Linda print over her mantle. She is a passionate person about this topic. So if she lives in a bungalow, and so I kind of knew already that those people were out there just by knowing her although she’s her own thing, but just by knowing her I knew that those people were out there. So I got to think that there are other topics or loves or-
Miriam Schulman:
Definitely.
Jan Schmuckal:
Why could that she could tap it to-
Miriam Schulman:
Like our friend Heidi Shaulis only paints cats. Sometimes she deviates, but she definitely has a little corner of the art market that likes her cat paintings.
Jan Schmuckal:
Right. Yes, people are passionate about their pets and there are some dog artists I’m aware of two that they’re very popular people. In fact, I think there’s a couple on the top 50 Etsy artists lists-
Miriam Schulman:
That only paint dogs.
Jan Schmuckal:
That only do dogs.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. But you’ll find that the best selling artists are working in a very narrow style/genre.
Jan Schmuckal:
Right?
Miriam Schulman:
And they’ve kind of figured it out and people know what to expect from them.
Jan Schmuckal:
Right? You don’t want to just make pancakes you need to make blueberry pancakes with banana topping and cherries on top, are they? Yeah, I mean, it’s Yeah, you really have to dial into something.
Miriam Schulman:
Why aren’t you teaching in person anymore?
Jan Schmuckal:
I have in the past taught classes and I’ve taught some workshops and I have taken, moreover, taken some workshops and classes from some artists who were both good at teaching and some that were lousy, throw myself into the lousy camp in person.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Jan Schmuckal:
In person. When I have a classroom of people, I get frustrated and I don’t want to get frustrated, and it makes me anxious and all this. There are some people who are just born to be a good classroom teacher. And there are some people that just have no patience. With-
Miriam Schulman:
Okay Jan, you’re not giving yourself enough credit because I think at least for me, because I teach online classes and I’ve taught in person classes.
Jan Schmuckal:
Online is different because-
Miriam Schulman:
It’s very different-
Jan Schmuckal:
At your own pace, when you are in a classroom, it’s totally, totally different ballgame.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And you have the pressure of the performance anxiety when you’re in front of a live class. And you don’t really have the luxury you do when you’re filming to be able to do something at your own pace from start to finish. And go smoke a cigarette in the middle. I mean, neither one of us smokes, right?
Jan Schmuckal:
Right. But I’m laughing because at one point or another I was doing that but go ahead.
Miriam Schulman:
Although I did take a Charles Reed workshop once where he would take frequent breaks to go smoke a cigarette. But my point is when you’re filming a video, for an online class, they actually get to see your process from beginning to end no matter how long that takes, because you can speed it up in the video editing room, whereas in class they have to watch the paint dry, and that’s no fun. And then it’s all the pressure of people standing over you. And interrupting your thought process.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yes. What color-
Miriam Schulman:
You answer question, so I don’t like-
Jan Schmuckal:
What color is that?
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly, what color was that? Exactly?
Jan Schmuckal:
I love that one. It’s like, “What color is that?” You’re like, I don’t know, I’ve mixed like five things.
Miriam Schulman:
What I actually do now is I had my studio assistant, print out all my different color names. And as I’m painting I put those cards next to me so that I don’t have to remember what the paint color was. Do you know what I’m saying like if it’s cobalt blue I have like a little car that is cobalt blue and I just put it next to my paintings so people can see that but yeah, it’s not easy teaching in classroom.
Jan Schmuckal:
What paint is that? What color is that? What brushes do you use? What canvas do you use? What, you know-
Miriam Schulman:
And they can’t even see anyway like-
Jan Schmuckal:
And I want to say this one thing. I had an artist stop by yesterday I ordered him because … Remember I have a gallery. So I ordered him also frame a big one. And I had a shift here because I have a business and so he came to pick up the frame and he was kind of grousing about how he was kind of in a weird bad artist spot you know with his work and stuff and he was complaining about this and that and the other thing and he says, I went and I bought the most expensive brushes and I use.
Jan Schmuckal:
I thought to upgrade from buying Gamblin oil paint which is no slouch, that’s what I use, you know using this and that and I use marble dust and do all these, talking about doing all this stuff. And I looked at him and I said, Okay, well, I don’t know when is the time that I tell you that buy the studio grade artist brushes from Blick, the cheap ones on sale. And you know, I use just a lot of the out of the tub. I use cheap stuff. It has nothing to do. It has very little to do with the materials that you purchased, what is going to end up on your canvas. It has to do with the person who is manipulating it.
Miriam Schulman:
True but also … Wait, I want to just address this because this is important on what we’re talking of. Yes, I think there’s a lot of people who think if they only knew what colors you use and what brand paint-
Jan Schmuckal:
Correct.
Miriam Schulman:
They will come out with your art, which is why when people want to take my art classes, I give them the supply list away for free. Like, here you go, you can take it but at the same time, I also have found that what you’re saying is true about it doesn’t matter but only to a certain degree because it’s like baking, where you’re going to take boiled stuff. You’re making dinner you want to start with some fresh ingredients so it’s not like I mean you have, maybe you don’t need the highest grade paintbrush but you’re not making your oil paintings with acrylic paint, you’re not using crayons. There are still certain level that you are using to get a result. Don’t you agree with that? Or now, because I find that with watercolor paint, I can completely tell just by looking at a photograph of a student art, what kind of paper they’ve used. If they’re used the cheap stuff or the good stuff.
Jan Schmuckal:
Okay, and having done watercolors to some extent, yes, but there’s also some baffle things that have just been done on illustration board.
Miriam Schulman:
True.
Jan Schmuckal:
You know-
Miriam Schulman:
But it’s like the other end of the spectrum is where you were talking about like, I don’t think it’s going to matter whether used a linen canvas, right?
Jan Schmuckal:
No. It doesn’t matter whether you use … To me, that to use the gesso out of the tub, or you want to hand make your rabbit skin glue with the little and you got the double boiler going there next to your canvas and then with the marble dust.
Miriam Schulman:
Manufacture your own canvas.
Jan Schmuckal:
Oh, I know I do that regularly.
Miriam Schulman:
Do you?
Jan Schmuckal:
Oh yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m impressed.
Jan Schmuckal:
I do because I get oddball sizes requests from people and I have found that the very best place … This is just a helpful hint, very best place to get structure bars of odd sizes that is, are stable enough at … If you’re going to do something sizable that are stable enough to do large canvases. They come from Canada and there’s only one place to get them and it is called Upper Canada Stretchers. And I mean you can get in … We have used the genie canvases and those are great but they’re usually too thick to put in a frame.
Miriam Schulman:
Right.
Jan Schmuckal:
These are thinner and wider so they’re great for that purpose. We all hope that the tariffs situation doesn’t get any worse. Anyway, but that’s the place to get them Upper Canada Stretchers and they are awesome and they’re not expensive and you can get a made, any size you need. I mean, if you need them to an eighth of an inch for some goofy reason, you got an old antique frame, they will make them for you. Doesn’t cost a whole lot more at all. It’s terrific, anyway, but back to … Knowing precisely exactly what I use, and have I ever used this or that. It’s more along the lines of, when you watch an artist do what they do, it’s a whole lot less of where they got what they got or what specifically they’re using and pay more attention to how they’re moving their hands and-
Miriam Schulman:
Well that’s where you hit the nail on the head. It’s not what they’re doing, It’s how they’re doing it.
Jan Schmuckal:
Yeah. Anyway-
Miriam Schulman:
Thank you Jan. We learned so much today. I’m so happy that you joined me. And by the way if you want to learn more about Jan’s art or sign up for her Tonalism class, which is only offered at the Inspiration Place, you can go to schulmanart.com/tonalism and we will send you information about Jan’s art and also put you on the wait list for when registration opens for her class again. So Jan, thank you, again so much for being part of this podcast. Do you have any last thoughts for our listeners?
Jan Schmuckal:
There’s no magic bullet to being an artist. It’s putting in the time.
Miriam Schulman:
Wow.
Jan Schmuckal:
Just keep doing it. Keep doing it. Keep doing it. And if it’s something where you don’t like what you started and you’re fighting with it, throw it away. Start another one. It’s just art.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s great. That’s really good advice. Thanks so much for joining me today Jan.
Jan Schmuckal:
Thank you, Miriam. It was a lot of fun and I hope people learned a few things that they didn’t know.
Miriam Schulman:
Alright, so there you have it. Don’t forget, you can sign up to learn more about Tonalism by going to schulmanart.com/tonalism. And if you want to see Jan’s art go to schulmanart.com/8 and you can get that link or anything else we discussed in this podcast. So once again, thanks for listening. If you found this episode valuable, please subscribe to the Inspiration Place on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast so you don’t miss any future episodes. Next week, I’m chatting with artists Tara Reed about how she works with an art agent and what’s trending now in art. So that’s it for now. Have an amazing and inspirational Day.
Thank you for listening to the Inspiration Place podcast connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart on Instagram @schulmanart and of course on schulmanart.com.
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