THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Miriam Schulman:
I am so thrilled that you’re here today. Today, I’ve invited a guru on quieting your inner critic because that is a struggle that we all have. And I don’t know about you, but I am always looking for ways to shut him up. Many of us live under the weight of a harsh inner critic. From an early age, we learn that we should be perfect and lawless. And that thinking spills over onto our creative process.
But the truth is, our flaws make us human and whole and in turn make our art more interesting. Our quirky patterns and signature styles are all part of what makes us who we are. And as we quiet that judgmental inner voice and replace it with loving kindness and curiosity, we learn to express ourselves creatively. So, we are going to dive deep into that today. So today, you’re going to discover the three steps to take back your creative power and how you can transform self-talk into a tool for success, as well as how sometimes the criticisms of others can unlock our secret superpowers.
Today’s guest is a speaker, an author and a creativity evangelist who speaks at conferences and consults with companies worldwide. She helps individuals and companies unleash their creativity through banishing their inner critic and hacking their creative brains. She is the author of Banish Your Inner Critic, the premier handbook on silencing fears to unleash creativity. Please welcome to the Inspiration Place, Denise Jacobs. I’m so glad you’re here.
Denise Jacobs:
Thank you. It’s so lovely to be here.
Miriam Schulman:
So, are you in Miami right now?
Denise Jacobs:
I am in Miami right now, but only for another 12 hours.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, thank you for taking the time. Have you always lived there?
Denise Jacobs:
No, I’m originally from a small college town in Ohio called Yellow Springs. And it’s the home of Antioch College. And I lived there until I was 18. I went to school in the Bay Area for a year. I went to Seattle for the “summer”. And the summer turned into 17 and a half years. And then, I moved to Miami in 2006.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, so I actually did grow up in Miami.
Denise Jacobs:
No.
Miriam Schulman:
I did. Well, I can’t say grew up there because I was actually a nomad for most of my childhood but I was there for a solid eight years of my childhood. And I actually went to Miami Shores Elementary School.
Denise Jacobs:
Check you out. Is that a military family?
Miriam Schulman:
No, no, no. My father passed away when I was really young. And then my mom remarried. So, there was like, yeah …
Denise Jacobs:
Transitions.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I did love my years there playing on the beach in Miami.
Denise Jacobs:
The weather is perfect basically in my personal humble opinion.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Raising your kids in the northeast like I did, you take the kids to a playground. But when we were little, my mom used to just take us to the beach. That was our playground.
Denise Jacobs:
The beach was your playground. That’s just so romantic sounding, you know, idyllic.
Miriam Schulman:
So anyway, I am so excited to have you and what I love about your book, you’re from a computer technical background, right?
Denise Jacobs:
Yes. And also, I didn’t actually know that there was a name for it when I was younger, oddly enough. But I realized much later on, I was like, “Oh, I’ve always kind of been a graphic designer.” So, I did a really cool, actually, if anybody is so inclined to look for it, you can find it under my profile in Flickr. But I have a great picture of a mural of the world, basically, a map of the world like a redone map of the world that I did my senior year in high school for my favorite teacher. And it’s about 10 feet by 20 feet.
Miriam Schulman:
Wow.
Denise Jacobs:
Let’s see, I think, maybe it was like 9 feet tall, maybe 10 feet tall. The ceiling is pretty high in that room, and then about 20 feet long. And I reproduced the map on the wall so that she would have it as a teaching tool. And then, I did hand lettering, I hand drew the typography for the title and did a really pretty compass rose. And so, I kind of looked back and I was like, “Oh, look, I had that. I did that thing. I just didn’t realize that kind of my version of visual art was graphic design.”
And now I design logos, all of my logos for all of my businesses, I’ve designed myself and …
Miriam Schulman:
I didn’t know that. That’s terrific.
Denise Jacobs:
Yeah, I design …
Miriam Schulman:
Nothing is ever wasted.
Denise Jacobs:
No. And then that’s nice because instead of having a logo that was designed by this person and that person and the other person, they all kind of have a similar feel because they’re all done by me. So, yeah. So, for example, in the book, that kind of the creative dose, little icon that is by the exercises, that is actually the logo for my company, and I designed that.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s fantastic. Now, I actually don’t design logos. People think just because you’re an artist, you can do that thing, but it’s not true.
Denise Jacobs:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
So, yeah. And then, you were also on the high school basketball team.
Denise Jacobs:
I was on the high school basketball and volleyball team, but the basketball team story is so much better.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, it’s interesting because you’re a very tall girl and you were trying to keep yourself small.
Denise Jacobs:
Right. Right.
Miriam Schulman:
Which is what the inner critic does.
Denise Jacobs:
Or like invisible, like please don’t pay attention to me. And with that, it was really about, and a lot of the listeners will probably relate to this, that you feel like sometimes, when you’re a certain way that then people have expectations of you.
Miriam Schulman:
Absolutely.
Denise Jacobs:
And if you don’t think you can live up to the expectations, then you’re just like, please pay no attention to the tall black woman, tall black girl sitting on the bench because there’s nothing to see here. There’s nothing to see here. And if you’re, I don’t know, like somebody who likes to wear vintage clothes or something like that. And then people are like, “Oh, you must be an artist.” And you’re like, “Actually, I’m a computer programmer.” Or you insert like some trope or some stereotype. Or if you’re blonde, you’re a blonde woman, and people are just like, “Oh, you must be stupid.” You’re like, “Actually, I’m an astrophysicist. Thanks for asking.”
So, there’s all of these things where people have expectations and you’re just like.
Miriam Schulman:
But also, this was something that we talked about in episode number six which is the sister to this episode, overcoming imposter syndrome. So that’s another time where a lot of us will just keep ourselves small. And in that episode, I talked about how when I go to professional art classes, as a student, sometimes they don’t want people to know I’m a professional artist. I just want to blend. I don’t want that expectation on me.
Denise Jacobs:
I still do that. If I go and I play volleyball somewhere, and people will be like, “Have you played before?”
Miriam Schulman:
And you’re like, yeah.
Denise Jacobs:
I just go, “Every now and then.” I don’t say to people, “Well, actually, I almost played on Stanford’s volleyball team.” Because it’s been a really long time since I’ve played volleyball at this point. I’m not in volleyball university high school club team volleyball shape by any stretch of the imagination. And so, I don’t want people to be like, “Oh, I would have expected you to be so much better knowing that you almost played varsity basketball at a division one school.
Miriam Schulman:
Division One volleyball in California.
Denise Jacobs:
Right. Exactly. You know all about that, right? So, I’m just like, “No. They don’t need to know that until later.” And then afterwards, if they’re like, “Oh, snap. Wait, what just happened?” I’ll be like, “Oh, I yeah, I did this.”
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly. Wait till you impress them and then …
Denise Jacobs:
Right.
Miriam Schulman:
… go like, actually.
Denise Jacobs:
Actually, if you must know.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m like the same exact thing. If I take an art class, I say nothing until they say, “That’s really good.” It’s like, “Well, actually.”
Denise Jacobs:
I actually went to school at Dartmouth. So, if that’s what …
Miriam Schulman:
All right. So, let’s make this actionable for our guests. One of the things I really liked about your book, and this is what it’s going to tease you that it was almost like an operating manual for your inner critic. You could really see your training as somebody who has been in that technical world because it’s not just a cheerleader rah-rah book. It really is a handbook with action items, step one, step two, step three.
So obviously, we can’t get into the whole book, which is why I put the link on the website, I hope people will check it out and invest in the book. Yeah. It’s a small investment …
Denise Jacobs:
And also, review on Amazon.
Miriam Schulman:
Which I just did, by the way. I did. I did. I did. Absolutely.
Denise Jacobs:
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Miriam Schulman:
With my real name.
Denise Jacobs:
Oh, that’s exciting. So, that means I can hunt you down now. I’ll be like, “Excuse me, I have a question about that review.”
Miriam Schulman:
I started leaving reviews on iTunes, because I wanted to grab the attention of influencers, and I found out that my iTunes name was Meme Meditates. Oops. I was like, oops, that defeated the whole purpose of that.
Denise Jacobs:
Never mind. I love it. Thank you. I appreciate that. That’s awesome.
Miriam Schulman:
No, absolutely. Okay, so let’s talk about the three steps to take back your creative power when dealing with your inner critic.
Denise Jacobs:
So, there’s actually two things that I want to mention with these three steps, because there’s the one we kind of talked about a little bit beforehand, the three steps. But I also want to mention what I feel like, before I talk about the three steps, very quickly, I want to talk about the three power tools that people have that. So sometimes, I feel like what happens is that people get sense of complacency with the inner critic, and they’re like, “I’m just going to have the inner critic forever. It’s just there. It’s like we have coffee in the morning. It’s just like this permanent …”
Miriam Schulman:
You know what, Denise, I just realized, I’m sorry to interrupt, but we never defined the inner critic. I think that it’s really helpful if let’s create a definition for it first. And then we’ll …
Denise Jacobs:
Let’s back it up for a minute.
Miriam Schulman:
Although I think most people know what it is …
Denise Jacobs:
A little too well, right?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Denise Jacobs:
So basically, what always say in my keynotes and in my trainings with people is that the inner critic is a psychological construct. So, it’s like this kind of installation you have in your head, in your psyche. And it comes from the fears you have about yourself, plus the negative things that you’ve heard from other people over the course of your life, right?
So people can say negative things to you. And if there’s nothing for it to attach to, it just kind of rolls off your back, like water off a duck’s back. Somebody goes, “You’ve got a big nose,” and you’re like, “My nose is cute. Whatever.” And then you just keep on moving, right? But if you are afraid that your nose is big and somebody says that you’re like, “Oh, my god, it’s true. It’s true that I have a big nose and it’s awful. And I need to go and get plastic surgery.” Right?
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Right.
Denise Jacobs:
So, it’s the same kind of thing. So really, one of the things I like to accentuate is that it’s really, a lot of it is about what you’re afraid is true, right? And then, it gets triggered, or it gets kind of accentuated and strengthened by some random comment from somebody who it was important to you, some authority figure, peers, et cetera.
And then it kind of comes up and it becomes this protective mechanism that your psyche creates to try to prevent you from having that kind of experience again in the future. And then, what it does is it goes into a part of your brain that’s called implicit memory. And it starts to drive your subconscious behavior, sometimes conscious, but a lot of times subconscious, right. So, you see an art contest or something like that. And you’re like, “Ah, I’m not going to apply for that. Because I mean, there’s probably so many other people whose stuff is better than mine, I don’t stand a chance.”
You have no idea. Right? And so, you hold yourself back, because maybe when you were in the second grade, you had an art teacher who was just like, “Yeah, I mean, it’s okay, but you’re never going to be able to compete, you’re never going to be able to go to art school.” And then boom. And that was your fear. So that becomes something that you consider true and then it controls your behavior from then on unless you really work to overcome it. Having said that and kind of establishing that that’s the inner critic, and really, I think also to the important thing about that is that it is a protective mechanism.
Your inner critic is trying to, it’s a little misplaced, but it is trying to keep you from experiencing hurt over again. It’s just a little too good at what it does. And like I said, it is misplaced effort and energy.
Miriam Schulman:
I love what Elizabeth Gilbert says, it’s like, “You’re driving the car and the critics is going to be there but,” she says, “go in the backseat. I don’t need you to hold the wheel. I don’t need you to look at the map.”
Denise Jacobs:
Yep. Or you could be in the trunk. Or you can be in the …
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly.
Denise Jacobs:
I’ll let you know when we show up at the destination.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Or meet me when we get there.
Denise Jacobs:
Yeah, just why don’t you take a train, I’ll drive and I’ll pick you up at the train station. How about if we do that? So that’s the inner critic. And then the cool thing, though, is that despite having this kind of influence and this kind of natural thing that our brains do to try to protect us from being hurt, we also have some very cool, what I call, mental power tools that we’re born with that make it so that we can maybe not completely silence or banish the inner critic completely 100%.
But make it so that we’re more in control of the process, what our brains are doing, and more in control then of the emotions we’re producing from the thoughts that we’re thinking. The first one is neuroplasticity. And that is that our brains are constantly changing in the face of different stimulus. So, if you’re thinking certain thoughts over and over and over again, you’re going to literally wear a path as it were. You’re going to have these neurons that are firing together, wiring together, and they’re going to get very strong.
But if you start to change your thought patterns and you start focusing on other things, focusing on thinking different plots. So instead of thinking, “My second grade art school teacher was right,” and I’m like, “I’m just not competition worthy art level.” But you’re just like, “Yeah, she didn’t know what she was talking about. So, I’m going to take these classes. I’m going to do this step. I’m going to get a mentor, and I’m going to apply for that thing.” Right?
Miriam Schulman:
I like to think of neuroplasticity as kind of like you have a habit of taking one thing. And then, just like any other habit change, you’re going to replace it with a habit of thinking different thoughts.
Denise Jacobs:
Right. So then, what helps neuroplasticity is attention and focus. And what helps attention and focus is mindfulness. So, that’s what I think of as the second power tool is mindfulness. It’s that ability to be able to kind of step away from your thoughts and your feelings and to kind of almost be like an outside observer. And to almost kind of go, “Oh, hey, look, I’m thinking that thought,” instead of being like, “Oh, it’s true. And it’s all in there.” To go, “Oh, okay. Isn’t …
Miriam Schulman:
Isn’t that interesting?
Denise Jacobs:
Right? Isn’t that interesting?
Miriam Schulman:
Isn’t that interesting?
Denise Jacobs:
Oh, I’m having that [crosstalk 00:17:34] right? I’m being that person. I’m doing that thing. Let me see what other thoughts I can choose out of a large palette of thoughts that I can choose, kind of like choosing a color.
Miriam Schulman:
Do you meditate to help with mindfulness?
Denise Jacobs:
I do. I do.
Miriam Schulman:
Are you good at it?
Denise Jacobs:
Meditation isn’t about being good at it
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Denise Jacobs:
It’s just about showing up. If you show up and you sit down for however long it is, by definition, you’re good at it, because you’re doing it.
Miriam Schulman:
But do you use like a guided tape? Do you just breathe?
Denise Jacobs:
I don’t. I did Vipassana meditation retreat about five years ago and I learned the Vipassana technique, which is awesome. It’s awesome. Look it up. It’s really cool. And it’s very focused on being aware of your breath and also scanning your body and being in touch with your body, which is really great. I really like that. And so, that’s what I do when I am working to meditate, I work to focus on being aware of my breath, actually, and sensations, observing sensations, then moving on to the next one.
Anyway. So, mindfulness and then finally, the last one is self-compassion. So, being kind to yourself and treating yourself, like mentally treating yourself the same way you would a dear friend. So, when your inner critic pops up and you start beating yourself up, be mindful and be “Oh, look, I’m doing that thing again. How about if I choose this other way of talking to myself? How about if I choose to talk to myself like I would a friend?”
Miriam Schulman:
So, those are like the three overall arching frameworks that you’re putting all the other action steps into?
Denise Jacobs:
Exactly. So, the thing that you’re talking about with the inner critic, so you can kind of have those kind of in the background, and then when the inner critic pops up, you can be like, okay, look, you can give your inner critic a name.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Denise Jacobs:
So, you can give your inner critic a name. And actually, what I often do is not only do I have people give it a name, I can say, “Oh, my inner critic, Norma, is here.” You are the mean librarian or whatever and give it a name and basically be like, “Look, okay, my inner critic is here and she’s in force, and I’m having an inner critic attack right now.”
And then the other thing that you can do is you can give your inner critic a backstory.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. I never heard of that before. I actually do imagine my inner critic as a man. That’s the gender.
Denise Jacobs:
Does he have a name?
Miriam Schulman:
No. He’s not worthy of a name.
Denise Jacobs:
Okay. Okay.
Miriam Schulman:
It’s like if you give someone a name it gives a little extra …
Denise Jacobs:
Gravitas?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. What’s nice is that when I make it a man, it’s not me. It’s not even a part of me. So it’s easier for me to separate myself from the inner critic, what the inner critic is saying, than from what my own truth is.
Denise Jacobs:
Okay. Did you give your inner critic a backstory? Like why are you so bitter? Why is he so bitter and cranky and grumpy?
Miriam Schulman:
I don’t know. You know what I do? The first thing I do is when he pops in is I immediately put on headphones and I will listen to an audio book. Now, these are things that don’t work well if your creative passion is writing. But as an artist, I’m working in the visual zone. And I kind of like to occupy my conscious mind with either an audio book or a podcast, so that my subconscious mind can actually do the creative work.
And it occupies that part of my brain where the inner critic would normally, when I’m not listening to something like that, that’s when the inner critic has room to come in. So, that’s what it is for me. But I really love your idea of giving it a name and a backstory. Do you want to share your backstory since you seem to have one for yours?
Denise Jacobs:
Remember several years ago, I wrote this lengthy journal entry about … It was actually before I was really into inner critic stuff. And I was talking about my lizard brain, which basically is about the same thing. And I was basically saying that I have two lizards, and one is named as Norm and the other one’s name is Norma. And their main concern is to try to keep me safe by making it so that I don’t stand out.
Miriam Schulman:
So you have two inner critics?
Denise Jacobs:
Well, yeah. I mean, my inner critic shows up in a lot of different ways. There’s like a whole committee of folks. And they like tag team, they’re just like, “Tag you’re it,” and they’re like, “All right, I got this one.” And be like, “And you think you’re so big and bad.” I’m like, “Oh, you’re the like, eight year old, alleged friends down the street, inner critic version. Okay. I see you peeping you out.”
In this respect, I had these two lizards that were just gray and nondescript. And their main goal was like, let’s just survive. Let’s not shake anything up. Let’s not be too remarkable. Let’s make it so that you’re kind of always sabotaging yourself. Make it so like Denise is always sabotaging herself so that she’s not too much. She’s not …
Miriam Schulman:
Trying to keep small again.
Denise Jacobs:
trying to like, yeah, just keep it all together. Not too smart or too loud or too talented or too attractive, or too this or too that whatever. And so yeah, sometimes that pair, sometimes they still kind of pop up and then I’ll be like, “Wait a minute, what? I’m a six foot tall black woman with short hair. And that’s not going to change anytime soon. So I might as well capitalize on that.”
Miriam Schulman:
One more exercise that we talked about. So, I had heard about this idea from one of my art students. And then you also share with me, you do this with your workshop participants, is to actually draw your inner critic.
Denise Jacobs:
Yes, as a matter of fact, I do it. So I do this, not only in my workshops, but I actually do this sometimes in my keynotes. And everybody have a piece of paper. And what I do is I have them, with their dominant hand, I have them write either their top fear around creativity, or their ability to be creative, or something that their inner critic says all the time to them, right.
And I have them write that down with their dominant hand. And then I have them switch hands. And with their non-dominant hand, I have them draw a picture of their inner critic. And my stipulation is, I was like, I want you to give me your best kindergarten drawing version. I was like, this does not need to be a masterpiece or an Uve. And I was like, “And you only have a minute to do it or like a minute and a half or whatever. So seriously, just do what you can.”
And so, it really kicks people into letting go of perfectionism. And also they can’t do it because unless they’re ambidextrous, they’re probably not really used to fighting with their non-dominant hand [crosstalk 00:25:06].
Miriam Schulman:
And also, if you’re not necessarily with art, and so you’re doing this with Facebook, Google or these other corporations.
Denise Jacobs:
Right, exactly. And also, the other thing, too, is that I definitely feel and there’s a lot of studies that support this, that say, when you work with your non-dominant hand, you’re actually working with a part of your brain that’s a younger part of your psyche. And you’re actually getting into your subconscious more directly. Because when you’re working with your dominant hand, it’s the one that’s practiced all the time. And when you’re working with your non-dominant hand, it’s almost like you’re back when you were a kid, and you’re learning how to write.
Miriam Schulman:
I didn’t know that.
Denise Jacobs:
And kids often will switch hands while their hand dominance is getting sorted out. So, babies, young kids, will do stuff with their right hand, they’ll do stuff with their left hand, and then it’s over time the dominance will take over and you’re either using the right hand or left hand all the time.
So, you can imagine and you know what it’s like when you see kids writing and they’re learning how to ride and they can’t hold the pen very well, and all that stuff. And so, when you take an adult and you throw a pen, and you make them do something with their non-dominant hand, it’s almost like going back in time to that period of time where you were that level of mastery with that hand.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s awesome.
Denise Jacobs:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
All right. So let’s move on to another tool, because I know we can talk about this subject all day.
Denise Jacobs:
We can.
Miriam Schulman:
All right. Okay. So this is one thing that I think is really interesting is I had, by the way, you’re very popular. I’ve had all your friends on …
Denise Jacobs:
Oh, really?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. So, Geoffrey Shaw.
Denise Jacobs:
Oh, great. He’s great.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. And then the other person I didn’t know you were friends with David Berkus. He was like, “Oh, Denise.” So, yeah, they were both guests. But anyway …
Denise Jacobs:
That’s awesome. Yeah. They’re fantastic. They’re great artists.
Miriam Schulman:
The reason I bring up Jeffrey and I believe this was episode number three. So, I’ll make sure a link to his episode is also in the show notes. But he talked about how you can use compliments to pull out what our strengths are. And what was so interesting in your book, whenever we have a truism, what’s also true sometimes is the opposite is also true
Denise Jacobs:
Absolutely.
Miriam Schulman:
And so, you talk about how, well, you can actually sometimes uncover some of your greatest strengths by looking at these criticisms. So, you tell this very great story. I’m not going to spoil it, but about this date gone wrong.
Denise Jacobs:
Oh, my goodness. I’ll tell the story. I can tell the story. So, I met this guy, who was a waiter. And I met him at this great little eatery that I went to called Julia’s Cafe when I lived in Seattle. So I said, I was tall, and I have a thing for tall men. And he was probably like 6’4″ or something like that. And we got to chit chatting. And he was just really, really funny and all this stuff. So long story short, we went on a date, I thought we had a great time. And then, I’m super excited about telling them about this experience, which incidentally, actually had to do with volleyball.
And I went and played volleyball for the first time in like a millennia, and was super excited. I was like, “I still have it.” So, I called him and I was, “Oh my god. So this happened, and this happened. And this happened. And blah, blah, blah, blah.” And then after I was done, he was quiet, and I was just like, “Hello, are you still there?” He was just like, “You just went on and on and on. It was like the Denise show.” And I was just like, gobsmacked.
You know how it is when something comes seemingly so from left field, you don’t even know how to respond to it?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Denise Jacobs:
I was totally in that place. I was just like …
Miriam Schulman:
That’s like getting slapped in the face.
Denise Jacobs:
Completely. I was gobsmacked.
Miriam Schulman:
Somebody you liked and to …
Denise Jacobs:
I thought we had a connection and all this stuff. So, anyway, suffice to say after that I didn’t really talk to him anymore. I was like, all right then. But then I was really overly, very sensitive to whether or not I talked a lot, whether or not I was talking over people, whether or not I was acting like I was the center of attention, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And later on, I found that it was ironic when I started being a speaker, actually, when I was really drawn to being a speaker.
It wasn’t even like I was walking down the street and all of a sudden was like, “Hey, do you want to keynote?” And I’m like, “Sure.” I went to a conference. I saw somebody speaking. I was like, “I want to do that.” I had been teaching web design and web development classes and loved teaching and loved having the audience but hated grading papers. And I went to a conference, I was like, “Wait a minute, I can talk about all the same stuff I talked about, but I didn’t have to grade papers and people will fly me places? Yes, please.”
And then it took quite a few years from the time that I had that realization until I actually started speaking at conferences and writing my first book, The CSS Detective Guide, was part of the impetus. It was part of the plan of the thing to springboard me into being able to go and speak at conferences. So, it was only later on that I looked back and I was like, “Oh, he was right. I was like the Denise show.” And I was like, “Well, now they pay me a lot of money to get up and talk for an hour or more.” And I was like, “Okay, you know what, I’ll take ownership of that. Yeah, I actually like it.”
I like being the authority. I like being the expert. I like people listening to me when I talk about stuff. And yeah, I like that. So you’re right. I talk a lot. And I’m good at it.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And that makes for a good podcast guest too.
Denise Jacobs:
See? It’s just like Oprah said. So, all of that is to say that sometimes people will tell, and again, this fear that I talk too much. I had somebody close to me when I was younger who really would talk a lot about stuff and you couldn’t get a word in edgewise. And I was always like, “I don’t want to be like that.”
Miriam Schulman:
You don’t want to be that person.
Denise Jacobs:
I don’t want to be that person. I don’t want to …
Miriam Schulman:
So, how did you transform the negative self-talk or transform the self-talk into a tool for success?
Denise Jacobs:
I think what ended up happening is I basically recognized that, basically, I put myself in an environment where that capacity, that skill, would be an asset instead of a detriment.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. Who would love that?
Denise Jacobs:
Who would love that, right? It’s just like, okay, maybe this particular person that I was interested in dating, but clearly isn’t a good match for me, because I guess he’s not a talker or whatever.
Miriam Schulman:
Not a listener. Not a listener.
Denise Jacobs:
Maybe he was just in a bad mood that day.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Denise Jacobs:
Who knows what was going on? But that’s not my thing to know or solve.
Miriam Schulman:
Was his name Norman?
Denise Jacobs:
No. His name was …
Miriam Schulman:
Because your inner critic was Norman. Norman.
Denise Jacobs:
No, his name was Jim. I kind of wish his name been Norm, that would have been kind of poetic justice, but his name is Jim. I’m just like, should I out him? No, I won’t out him.
Miriam Schulman:
No you won’t out him.
Denise Jacobs:
I’m not going to be petty. And Lord knows he may have changed his name. Who knows? I don’t even know what’s going on …
Miriam Schulman:
Luckily, there’s a lot of gyms in the world.
Denise Jacobs:
Yeah. And he’s got actually fairly common …
Miriam Schulman:
You know who you are, Jim. If you’re listening, you know who you are.
Denise Jacobs:
Tall, redheaded dude. Anyway, so sometimes I think what it is, is it’s helpful to look at those things that you’re afraid of. And to look at those and to say, first of all, is this really that bad? Is this something that I just naturally do? Are puppies dying from this? Are kittens being hurt from me talking a lot or liking to be the expert? I was like, no. Okay, where is this something where this is going to be an advantage for me and not a detriment?
Miriam Schulman:
Right.
Denise Jacobs:
So, I think there’s another thing in the book too where I was talking, not even I think I know because I wrote the book. There’s another thing that talks about your uniqueness advantage. Right. So, it’s kind of a similar type of thing, where instead of having this thing that you’re feeling like you should be ashamed of, or you should try to hide, or you should try to tone down, you’d be like, “No, no, this is the thing.” Like the same thing with me being like a tall African American woman, like, oh, no, this is a thing.
Denise Jacobs:
I’m going to play this up as much as I possibly can. I’m going to make this an advantage for me and not a disadvantage. I’m going to transform this because I have the power. We all have the power to do that. It’s all in our heads, right. It’s all perspective.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. Denise, this has been such an inspirational talk with you. I’m so fired up. Do you have any last words for my listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Denise Jacobs:
Yes, I always have last words. So, my thing, I would say that, first of all, just a little bit of a disclaimer. And the disclaimer is that I know my book is called Banish Your Inner Critic, but like I was saying earlier, there’s this really strong chance that you’re never going to just be able to send you inner critic off into the hinterlands and it’ll never come back. Right?
Miriam Schulman:
Right. And by the way, just to back pedal, even though I said I have this tool to quiet down. When I’m not painting, I still have the … You know what my inner critic says to me is, “You’ll never pin anything good again.”
Denise Jacobs:
Oh my goodness.
Miriam Schulman:
That last painting, that was it.
Denise Jacobs:
That was it. That’s all you’ve got
Miriam Schulman:
That’s all you’ve got. Right.
Denise Jacobs:
All right. That’s so funny. Your inner critic has got jokes. Oh, that’s so cute. You’re so funny. Would you like to be on the stand up circuit now? Banishing your inner critic, I don’t really think is possible. Yeah. But I do think that with the tools and with the practices and everything that you can get to a point where your inner critic is not as loud. It’s not popping up at the slightest propagation. It’s not showing up and holding you back from things that you really want to do.
And so, I guess my last thing to say for people is to stick with it, to know that it’s something that you kind of created. And it’s something that you can also take power away from as well. And you can take that power away from your inner critic and you can give it to your creative self, right? And everybody has that. Everybody has that place that they get into that state of flow or whatever, where the inner critic is gone. It’s not even like silence. It just doesn’t exist. And you’re just so into that place of creating and letting that kind of, I would even say, kind of divine creation run through you that the inner critic doesn’t even matter.
So know that that exists for you and trust in that and tap into that, because that’s who I believe we really are. We are really those empowered, creative people.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. Well, thanks again so much for joining me and taking this time. I know you’re really busy. You’re about to hop on … Where is it that you’re going?
Denise Jacobs:
I’m going to Toronto tomorrow morning, and I’ll be in Toronto until Monday morning. And then I fly to Chicago and I’m going to be doing an event and being the opening keynote for the event on Tuesday.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, that’s amazing. By the way, if you want Denise to keynote your event, you just have to go to denisejacobs.com and you can contact her to discuss availability, topics, speaking fees. She doesn’t just speak to artists, like I said, she’s spoken to major corporations like Facebook and Google and teaches them how to tap into their creativity through these workshops.
Denise Jacobs:
Exactly.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. So, all right, so to find links to Denise or anything else we talked about today, the show notes are schulmanart.com/26. There’s also a link to my master class, schulmanart.com/masterclass. And then finally, to wrap this all up, I’ve got a question for you. Are you subscribed to my podcast? Because if you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that right away. Right this minute. I have been bringing up some really amazing special guest episodes. And I know a lot of you like the solo mini trainings I do on the show. I’ve got some really good ones coming your way.
So, if you want these episodes sent to your smartphone or your desktop every time I release a new one, including some bonus episodes, make sure you subscribe to my podcast so you don’t miss a single one. So, for iTunes, just click the purple subscribe button and among all major podcast directories like Stitcher and Spotify and Google Play.
All right. So, Denise and I are going to run. Thanks, Denise. Thank you for listening and spending this time with me today. I will talk to you same time, same place next week. In the meanwhile, make it a great week and have an amazing and inspirational day. That’s it. Rocked it. That was awesome.
Thank you for listening to the Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart on Instagram at schulmanart and of course on schulmanart.com.
Miriam Schulman:
Hey there if you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out the Inspired Insider’s Club. It’s my monthly membership program where you get inspiration from me. Every month, I share with you techniques that I use in my own art for drawing and painting in both watercolor and mixed media. Plus, each month we meet live. We talk about inspiration and ideas for how to make the art in your own style and you get to ask me questions, or even get critiqued on your art.
If you’re feeling stuck in your art and your goal for 2019 is to unleash greater creativity or to spend more time painting, but you need a little help creating that habit. Then, the Inspired Insider’s Club will help you get there. Come join me over at schulmanart.com. That’s schulmanart.com/join. I’d love to have you join me in the inspired insider’s club. See you there.
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