THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Miriam Schulman:
Well, hello, this is your host, artist, Miriam Schulman. And you’re listening to Episode Number 51 of The Inspiration Place Podcast. I’m thrilled that you’re here. Today, I’ve invited a guest expert in public speaking, which is a powerful tool to increase your credibility and puts you in control of your career.
In this episode, you’re going to discover why your art does not speak for itself. Why you must learn to speak in front of groups of all sizes who want to learn about your art, your process, and your message. And we’re also going to review the three formats of artists talks.
Today’s guest is an award winning director. She also writes and choreographs for theater, film, and television. In addition to her work in the entertainment industry, she applies her expertise to the art of public speaking. She’s the Executive Producer of Speakers Who Dare, a TEDx producer.
She choreographed Black Box on ABC, The Affair on Showtime, Rescue Me on Fox and John Turturro’s Romance & Cigarettes, where she was awarded a Golden Thumb Award from Roger Ebert. The series, Sublets won Best Comedy at the Vancouver Web-Festival, and she curates and host the Speaker Salon in New York City. The Big Talk is an award-winning podcast on iTunes and she directs and produces the Big Talk Over Dinner, a new TV series. She was recently awarded Top Director of 2019 by the International Association of Top Professionals and her documentary, Right Livelihood a Journey to Here, about the Buddhist Chaplain of Rikers Island won Best Documentary Short at the Olympus Film Festival and it’ll screen in LA in June. So I guess that’s already happened.
All right. Please welcome to The Inspiration Place, Tricia Brouk.
Tricia Brouk:
Miriam, it’s so great to be here. Thank you.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m so happy to have you. So my listeners, whether they know it or not, are actually very familiar with your work because four of my guests have all been either private clients of yours or went through your group speaker program.
Tricia Brouk:
I love that you are putting speakers onto your platform and giving them an opportunity to put into practice what they studied.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, they really were fantastic. So I’m just going to mention a few of them so that we can make sure we include links to all those shows in the show notes, but they all hit it out of the park. I had Jeffrey Shaw, Robin Joy Meyers, Kate MacKinnon, and Susan Greif. And I saw all three of them was part of your Speaker Salon. Was Jeffrey part of your TEDx Talk?
Tricia Brouk:
Jeffrey applied to TEDx Lincoln Square 2018. And it was his 13th time trying to get onto a TEDx stage. So I felt very lucky that he waited for us, frankly. And so he was a TEDxLincolnSquare Speaker, and we went on to work on his brand new keynote, which is all about branding and photography. He’s fantastic, and so is Susan and Kate. Robin Joy Meyers, who is now a TEDx Speaker as well.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s fantastic. It was a really good program that you put on and there were other fantastic speakers I could have had on as well. They just didn’t fit in with this podcast. So these were the ones that fit in with the messaging, but it was so much fun calling to watch your Speaker Salon and see all that work put into action.
All right. So we’re here to help artists today. So, are you familiar with the kind of talks that artists need to give?
Tricia Brouk:
I love being able to talk with you about this, because when I think of an artist, I think of them being in a solitary space, working from a really creative, but also brain space of painting or creating things that are made with your hands. So when I think about an artist speaking, I think that it’s new to me. And I’m excited to talk to you about when and where artists actually speak about their work.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. Well, it is important, because a lot of people who become artists, they do so because like you said, they like to work alone and create things. But in order to promote yourself, you really do have to talk about your art because art does not speak for itself.
So there are really, three types of talks that artists commonly give. The first one is the gallery talk. So this might be something more informal. If you’re having a show, whether that is in an actual gallery or just you’re presenting it in a non-traditional space, you’re going to need to talk about your art, whether that’s just one-on-one, to develop what your message is in a conversation, because that is what’s going to lead to a sales conversation. People need to understand what you did, but it could also be more formal, like you’re inviting a group of people to hear you talk about the art. And especially if you’re not working in a gallery, if you’re self-representing, that is a very common way to publicize your art show, is to offer to talk in the space about your art. So I fully recommend artists who are self-representing themselves to develop their messaging around their art.
Then there’s the more formal type that some of us have, maybe the pleasure of attending. If you’re of the caliber in a museum where you’re either on a panel or you’re talking about a higher level, but really those two first talks are quite similar. It’s all about developing the talk about your message. So a lot of this, Tricia, is the work that you do with your clients, is how to develop what is the message of your purpose that you are bringing forth to the world.
And then the third talk, which I believe most artists are more familiar with, I call the instructional talk, which could be the way you talk to your students. Because every time you teach, it’s a form of public speaking, whether you’re teaching online or in-person, but very often, artists are invited, or a good way to build your art business is to look for opportunities where you can speak about your process to a group of artists. So that’s a slightly different kind of talk than the first two talks, which is more about why you paint, where the third one is how you paint.
Tricia Brouk:
That’s incredible. What you’re sharing with me, if we start with the gallery talk, that for me is storytelling. It’s an intimate space, you’re talking to your audience as a storyteller. You’re taking them on the journey of where you came from and where you ended up. And literally, you’re taking them on a journey. Let’s say you’ve got five or six or eight paintings hanging in a gallery space. You could walk them through each painting, talking to them about why they’re in this order, how they came to you, what your process was. So at the end, they’ve literally gone on a journey of storytelling with you.
If you move into the museum, this would be backstory. You want to talk to your audience about how you got to the museum and what it took, because that kind of drama give them a relatability to you as an artist. Many people have no idea what it takes to create a painting. If I was speaking to somebody in a museum and they were giving a lecture and they were lecturing on their work, I would want to hear the backstory of how they got there. I would want to hear the journey of why they chose the medium they chose, why they chose the picture, the canvas, why they chose the image, what was inspiring them about that. And then they would go into the technical part. And that’s the more formal museum talk.
And then if we’re talking about a panel, if you are new to speaking as an artist, the first thing I would suggest you do is get on a panel, because you can listen and then chime in when you feel like you have a nugget of information to share. You don’t have to prepare anything. The facilitators who prepares the panels, so you really show up and are just the expert talking about what you’re really good at.
And then if we move into the instructional portion of what you said, which is perfect, Miriam, the teaching, that is where you want to understand what you want your audience, what you want your students to come away with at the end. And you take them on that process. So you set them up. Here’s the information. Here’s why I’m going to tell you the information, what makes me credible. Here’s what I’m going to tell you. Now, I’m going to tell you, and then you can summarize.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s great. When you’re looking for an audience for your talk, you don’t have to wait for your gallery show. So for example, if you’re a wildlife artist, there are definitely animal groups who are interested in your art, or if you create feminist art, there are women groups who are interested in your art and your message. So I think it’s important for artists to be creative in looking for audiences to speak to as another way to get exposure for their artwork.
Tricia Brouk:
This is so awesome. I know very little about the art world. What I know is that when we communicate about what we’re passionate about, other people become passionate about it. That’s why it’s so important for artists to talk about what they’re doing, to talk about why they’re doing it, to bring awareness to what they’re doing. It builds credibility as an artist to be able to speak articulately about what and why you’re doing what you’re doing. That’s what you’re so good at. You are somebody who is true and true an artist. You’re also able to talk about why you do it and you want to bring attention to other people who do it. And I think that’s what might be missing for a lot of artists out there.
Miriam Schulman:
Tricia, if I were coming to you and I was looking for audiences or looking for places that are looking for speakers, what would you tell me what my first step should be?
Tricia Brouk:
The Speaker Salon is the place that I put speakers in front of speaker bureaus, event organizers, TEDx organizers.
Miriam Schulman:
Let’s tell people what a speaker bureau is, because I think that people who are not in this world may not be familiar with that.
Tricia Brouk:
When you’re an actor in showbiz, you have representation. That agent or that manager will hear about opportunities for you and they will put you in touch with those people. So that’s the same thing that a speaker bureau does. They represent speakers. When somebody calls a speakers and says, “I want a speech about women in leadership.” They go through their roster and they choose two or three of those speakers and say, “Here’s the perfect person for you.” So they represent speakers. They take a percentage, but they do a lot of the heavy lifting, like finding out events and connecting directly with organizers and doing all of that stuff, all the negotiations. So you just get to be a speaker.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. That’s great. So it’s basically an agent for booking speaking gigs. But are these paid speaking gigs? I mean, how do you pay your agent?
Tricia Brouk:
Yeah. These are paid speaking gigs. When you have a speaker bureau representing you, you’re getting no less than $5,000 a speech.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, it’s good. I’d like some of that. Yes, please. And the agent gets paid how? They take a cut of that? Or do you pay them a retainer?
Tricia Brouk:
They take a percentage. Many speaker bureaus will allow you to be free to take other speaking gigs. And if you book them yourself, you don’t have to pay the speaker bureau. Many of them have that clause.
Miriam Schulman:
Take me through, because I’m really curious, actually, a success story of somebody who’s gone through your Speaker Salon and has now booked those types of gigs.
Tricia Brouk:
I can start with Robin Joy Meyers who’s been on your show. She is a two-time speaker alum, Speaker Salon alum, and she has a TEDx. She also is represented by A-Speakers. A-Speakers represents Mel Robbins and Rachel Hollis and Barbara Corcoran among others. She’s in negotiations right now for three paid speaking gigs. They’re all 5,000 bucks.
Kristina Hallett is a Speaker Salon alum, and she’s also represented by A-Speakers. Mari Carmen Pizarro is also represented by A-Speakers and is a TEDx speaker. Actually, Kristina Hallett is also a TEDx speaker. She met the executive producer of TEDxFarmingdale at Speaker Salon and he asked her to take the stage.
[Kaia Reign 00:13:56], who is an incredible coach, leader. She never took a stage ever, before stepping foot onto mine, and will be premiering as a TEDx speaker in September.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s amazing. So let me just circle back to Robin, get a little more specific, especially since she’s somebody that my audience either has listened to or should listen to. So we are going to link up her interview in the show notes, because it was a really good one. We talked about fear, which is something I know a lot of you have, fear around your creativity and your creative career.
So she and you worked together to develop her talk. Now, when she gets booked, is it for that talk or does it change? Could you explain that to me?
Tricia Brouk:
Great question, Miriam. Speaker bureaus will put you on their roster with what you talk about. And that could be fear, it could be isolation, it could be women in leadership. So as a speaker, you want to really identify three or four products that you can speak on. You don’t have to necessarily have these all written in keynote form, but you do need to be able to talk about these ideas expertly.
Robin’s TEDx, we developed together and I pushed her to not talk about fear because she’s done that. So I pushed her in a direction to talk about something very different, which was, as a molecular geneticist, she identified and isolated the gene mutation that caused wing deformation in a fruit fly. She also isolated herself, her entire life and caused her own impeding flight ultimately. So I was able to help her identify this story based on her history as a molecular geneticist and as a woman who was isolating so that she could inspire other people to stop isolating from their selves and from their lives and really become who they’re meant to be in the world. So that’s a new talk that she could potentially give through the bureau.
They also reach out to her and say, “There’s this conference happening. Would you be able to talk about this?” And she says, “Absolutely.” And at that point, she starts getting busy and writes a keynote.
Miriam Schulman:
Got it. Okay. Now, Tricia, I want to get out of the weeds of the specifics of clients, because I know that one of the things that you do brilliantly and I want to share with my listeners today is how to take a message or a story that is about you, but make it meaningful to other people so they care about it.
Tricia Brouk:
This is a really great question because if your talk is too close to you and isn’t global, doesn’t have global impact, we stop listening, because we think, “Oh, I don’t relate to that person.” Or, “I can’t imagine what they’re going through.” So here’s a really great example. Three years ago, my first speaker ever, Kristin Smedley, she came to me and she said, “I want to do a talk about retinal disease. Two of my children were born blind. I started a retinal awareness foundation. I’ve been talking about this for 16 years and I want to do a TEDx about this.” I was not yet a TEDx organizer. And I just said, “Absolutely. I’ll support you in this.” We begin the process of what I call active listening. I asked her tons of questions. And by the end of this two hour active listening session, I say, “Kristen, the talk is not about retinal disease. It’s actually about how you learn to see the world differently through the eyes of your children.”
Miriam Schulman:
So beautiful.
Tricia Brouk:
So it became global. I don’t have kids. I don’t have blind kids. How do I relate to this person’s story? Well, now I can absolutely relate to this person’s story because it’s about paying attention to how I see the world through other people’s eyes.
Miriam Schulman:
So powerful. Tell me a little bit more about that active listening process. How do people do that? It’s so hard for me to get out of my thinking brain into that feeling heart.
Tricia Brouk:
As an artist, does painting help you do that?
Miriam Schulman:
Yes, but it’s nonverbal communication. So sometimes I know for myself as well as a lot of other artists that we’re so used to communicating visually and our feelings are communicated visually, then we have to actually put it into words. We struggle with that.
Tricia Brouk:
If I were to work with you, an artist, I would probably reframe it in terms of, I might make you paint while we’re talking. I might actually make you paint while I’m asking you questions, because there’s such a connection to you and the visual, that it may serve the talk to allow you to have both happening at the same time.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s so interesting. What has speaking also done for your clients besides just the paid speaking gigs? How does the speaking help their credibility or make art sales?
Tricia Brouk:
First of all, when you understand and you have clarity around what you’re talking about, your confidence goes up. So you are able to talk about why your work is important, how it came to be, which gives us relatability to you. And then you are comfortable selling, because you’re serving us.
I have a painting in my apartment by a New York artist. When I found out the story behind the painting that I have in my apartment, it’s a love painting. When I found out the story of this artist who happens to live in New York City, I wanted to support him. I wanted to commission a new painting by him, because his story was compelling. His story was captivating. He had something that was besides just a painting. And so when you are clear on why you’re doing the work you’re doing, and you have the confidence to talk about it, then we want to buy from you, because we want to support your mission and your vision as an artist.
Miriam Schulman:
Part of the message I’ve been giving throughout this podcast since it started is that, people buy art from artists who they feel connected with. You can’t really connect to somebody without a conversation. Now, the conversation can happen in many different ways. There is the online conversation, the conversation that you put into the written form, there is the conversation you do through email, but really the most powerful conversations are the ones that happen in real life. We need that in-person, energetic component. So it’s not that people can’t sell art online, but the truth is in my experience and the experience of many of my artist friends is that our highest ticket sales, commissions, artwork, portraits, it begins with that conversation. And it happens in real life in real time. And that is why it’s so important to develop your voice as an artist, not just on the canvas, but your actual literal voice as an artist.
Tricia Brouk:
Right. And I want to share with your listeners a technique that I use with my actors and my speakers. We can’t expect to be captivating all the time. We might have a bad day. We might be getting up on the wrong side of the bed or having an argument with somebody. So when we are speaking about what we’re passionate about, we must understand what the objective is and how we’re going to go after it. And that gives you a technique to be able to talk about your work always, in a captivating way. Here’s an example. If I want my kids to go to bed, if I want my spouse to take out the trash, that’s the objective. Now, how do I get them to do what I want? I have an action. It could be inspire. It could be motivate. It could be educate. It could be reveal. It could be illuminate.
When you are talking about your artwork, be clear on what your objective is. Do you want this person to buy this piece of art? Do you want this person to buy your painting? Do you want this person to commission a brand new piece from you? If that’s what you want, you must go after that relentlessly with an action.
So first, you may want to educate them. This is what my work looks like. This is what it costs. This is how long it takes. Then you may want to inspire them. “And when you have this piece of work hanging over your sofa, you will feel this way every single time you walk into this room.” So now you’re inspiring them to think about what their life looks like after they commission the work you’ve made for them.
Miriam Schulman:
You’ve probably already assumed this, but I’m just going to make it more obvious for my listeners because there’s that little stuff that’s so important, is you really have to ask questions. So never assume, just because you painted this big painting, that it’s going over their couch. What I love to do when I’m having the sales conversation is, and this is before they’ve said to me, they want to buy. It’s, they like something I say, “Where do you imagine hanging this painting in your home?” Why that’s so powerful is once you get your client to start imagining it in their house, you’re halfway there.
Tricia Brouk:
That’s awesome.
Miriam Schulman:
And then also, what you said with the feelings, you ask them how things make them feel. And then it’s like, you reflect it back to them, but they don’t realize you’re doing it. So it’s not manipulation, it’s really a give and take.
Tricia Brouk:
It’s objective and action. You know what you want, and you go after it by using an action, where it’s reflecting, inspiring. Absolutely.
Miriam Schulman:
Like you said, you ask them, “Why do you like this?” And let them tell you, “It’s the color.” And then, so with your example, let’s just say they love the color. Then you listen carefully. Use that introverted skills of being a good, if you’re not an extrovert, that’s okay. Because introverts are really good listeners and you have to lean in to that skill of listening to help them understand why, like you said, that your painting is the solution to what they want. But it’s using their words and their emotions and their desires to do that.
Tricia, I really want to hear more about your Speaker Salon because I understand you have a new one beginning this fall. Is that just for people who are in New York?
Tricia Brouk:
Yeah. The Speaker Salon is a live weekly incubator for speakers in New York City. I have had people commute from Copenhagen and California and a lot of my speakers commuted from Philadelphia and the Pennsylvania area.
Miriam Schulman:
Didn’t Robin commute from the DC area?
Tricia Brouk:
Yeah, Robin took a bus.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, but I think she had a daughter in New York city. So that made it a little more worth her while.
Tricia Brouk:
Exactly.
Miriam Schulman:
I can’t even imagine doing, I mean, I’m really glad you do this in-person, because it’s so valuable to, when you’re on a stage to be able to refine your technique in-person, don’t you think?
Tricia Brouk:
The in-person work is really valuable. The other part of the Speaker Salon that’s so special is the community. You get to be on stage in front of other speakers every single week, so you get live feedback. If you say something and the whole audience gasps, you know you’ve got them in your hand, you know that that line works.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Or if something falls flat.
Tricia Brouk:
Then you have to be very courageous because I’m going to remind you that it didn’t work and you need to cut it.
Miriam Schulman:
I thought that would be funny. Nobody’s laughing.
Tricia Brouk:
It happens all the time. And I thought it would be funny if I acted a certain way when I did this line and you get feedback right away that it’s not authentic.
Miriam Schulman:
Do people come to you who are not confident at speakers? How confident you have to be before you start?
Tricia Brouk:
I have speakers who’ve never taken the stage. I have speakers who’ve spoken a lot and they believe their confidence is there. And then when they get up on stage and I asked them to be truthful, or I remove what they perceive as a speaker persona, all of a sudden, they don’t know where they are and what they’re doing. When you’re on my stage, first of all, I created an incredibly safe space. The work we do is intimate. The talks these speakers are giving is from a place of passion and intimacy. They want to speak about important things. And I’m sure like your artists, they want to speak about why they’re making this art. It means something to them. It’s really important.
So that kind of vulnerability requires a safe space to be able to talk openly and be able to talk about something that is not raw, but is vulnerable. Many of the speakers come to me, never spoken before. And that means they get to come from a place of complete newness and vulnerability and step into what it feels like to give a big talk. They are all walks of life. They’re all diversity of speakers, they’re diversity of ideas. It’s really all about elevating people to the next level, so that they can talk about what’s important to them in a way that can have impact.
Miriam Schulman:
When you say Big Talk, I know that’s the name of your podcast and that’s also your promise. Could you just humor me? What do you mean by Big Talk? Is that always a keynote talk?
Tricia Brouk:
It could be a keynote. It could be a TEDx. It could be a companion talk to your book. It could be one of these gallery events. It could be a museum. Anything that you think has importance in terms of what you’re talking about, that’s a big talk. I also wanted to say that your artists and your listeners, when you think about talking about your work, you can do it on a podcast. You can do it on a blog post. You can do it on a Facebook Live. You could do it on a video. You could do it on a How-To video. These are all big talks. And that’s where you want to bring objective and action into this. Always be clear on what it is you want and how you’re going to get it. And you can apply that all the way.
Miriam Schulman:
And then this one is for my husband. He keeps asking me, no matter how many times I’ve told him, “What is a TEDx?” So I’m assuming not everyone knows what a TEDx Talk is. So could you just explain the difference between TED and TEDx and what that actually means for people? Let’s pretend they don’t know at all.
Tricia Brouk:
TED stands for Technology, Entertainment and Design. It started many, many years ago. Chris Anderson is the executive producer. They decided that they wanted to give communities an opportunity to put on their own events. So they now allow people like me and other event organizers to license the TEDx event. And that means it’s an independently organized event that TED oversees in terms of the guidelines and the rules, but smaller communities can put on these events and have speakers, so that the ideas worth spreading happen in more places. The TED proper event happens once a year in Vancouver, but there are TEDx events happening all around the world, all the time.
Miriam Schulman:
And then what is the prestige factor of having TEDx on your speaker resume?
Tricia Brouk:
The TED brand is incredible. They represent really powerful, important ideas and are very innovative. So as a speaker, it is a great crown to wear.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. That’s fantastic. Okay. And I just want everyone to know that I am absolutely not an affiliate for Tricia. I just really believe in the work she’s doing. So Tricia, could you just explain to anybody who’s interested, what your process is for people who may want to join your Speaker Salon? I’m assuming it’s by application only.
Tricia Brouk:
The Speaker Salon happens in the fall and the spring. It is by application only. I limit it to 15 people because I really want to give them a lot of attention over those six weeks. You can apply at speakersalonapplication.com. And I also want to share something brand new, which is the Big Talk Academy. Many people can’t commute to New York once a week, and many people are not ready to invest in that kind of time. So I’m starting the Big Talk Academy, which is a virtual salon, if you will, where you are taught lessons every week. You become certified in my process and you have group calls with me every other week. So there’s still access to me directly. And it’s for people who can’t, or are unable to commute.
Miriam Schulman:
All right. That’s super valuable. So do you have any last words for my listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Tricia Brouk:
I would love for your listeners to think about accepting the gift from their audience before they give the audience their gift. When you make it about your idea, all the nerves go away and you can simply share your important idea.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, I love that. Thanks so much again for joining us today, Tricia. We will be sure to link up your podcast as well as all your other links you talked about in the show notes, which are going to be schulmanart.com/51. Don’t forget you can also listen to Tricia’s podcast, The Big Talk, which also is super helpful and inspiring.
Thanks for listening, everyone. Tune in next week, when we’re going to have on Gigi Rosenberg. She also helps artists through the grant writing process. So that’s a whole different way of pitching yourself successfully. If you haven’t subscribed to the podcast, make sure you do that right away, like right now. Thanks so much for being with me here today. I will see you the same time, same place next week. Make a good one. Bye for now.
Thank you for listening to The Inspiration Place Podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart. On Instagram at Schulmanart, and of course, on schulmanart.com.
Miriam Schulman:
If you’re interested in hearing how you can earn more for your passion, with concrete marketing and business strategies that work, head on over to schulmanart.com/biz. That’s schulmanart.com/B-I-Z.
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