THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Miriam Schulman:
Well, hello. This is your host, artist, Miriam Schulman, and you’re listening to episode number 60 of The Inspiration Place Podcast. I am so thrilled that you’re here. Today, I’ve invited a guest expert in creating businesses with soul.
In this episode, you’ll discover why it’s imperative that you make money while also serving your life purpose. You’ll discover how to blend traditional building business strategy with in intuitive guidance from your soul. And most importantly, why you may not have a selling problem, we’re talking about selling your art, but you may have a receiving problem.
Today’s guest is a business coach, keynote speaker and best selling author, that inspires audiences to lead and sell with passion and purpose. She is an expert business coach that believes our businesses are not only a way to make money and contribute to our fellow humans, but also a conduit for our souls evolution.
Our guest is committed to helping her fellow entrepreneurs learn how to grow their businesses from a place of love, rather than fear, and experience the true power prosperity and peace that arises when they do. Please welcome to The Inspiration Place, Patty Lennon. Hello, Patty, and welcome to the show.
Patty Lennon:
Oh my goodness. I am excited to be here.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So, the reason I invited you Patty, is because I love your intuitive approach to selling. Much of my audience does have things to sell, whether it’s art or art classes, or something else. I thought this would be a really valuable conversation, and probably even more so from my listeners who are still giving their stuff away for free, because I know that actually is a lot of the people who listen to this podcast.
And I see so many of the clients I just started working with under selling their art, and like I just said, even just giving it away for free. So, let’s talk about that first thing, we promised them, why it’s imperative, that you actually make money while you’re serving your life purpose.
Patty Lennon:
And it’s totally a selfish pursuit that I convince everyone of this. It’s because I believe that our planet is at a tipping point between the masculine and feminine energies. And I think we are at a unique point where those energies are meant to be balanced. And especially when you’re looking at creatives and people who are led by their heart and soul, we possess a lot of that divine, feminine energy. That’s what makes us good at what we do. So, we are here to be the leaders in that movement.
And we incarnated at a time in a planet when money is a controlling factor on where power goes. So, when you look at war, when you look at poverty, when you look at everything that’s a planetary problem, all of it is controlled by money. So, when you look at that and you understand wherever are the power flows to, that is where the choice flows to. So, that’s why I feel so strongly that those who are creatives and purpose led, really learn how to receive fully for their gifts because that money flowing in starts to change the planet just by the shift of power moving to something other than where it is today.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. I need to circle back for a few things that I don’t understand and I think I’m pretty woo. Your woo factor is very advanced. Yeah. Yeah. I know people have used that term, feminine energy, masculine energy. Is that what you said?
Patty Lennon:
Yep.
Miriam Schulman:
Trying to understand it, but the context you put it in, but I don’t even know if this is true, is masculine energy, the money making or the power energy?
Patty Lennon:
No. So, money is just a thing, right? It’s just an aspect of energy. It just is one of the most powerful aspects of energy on the planet right now. But masculine, feminine, isn’t really applicable to money.
Masculine and feminine, when I talk about it is just talking about like a battery, right? There’s a masculine, a feminine side of the battery. One receives the energy and one gives it out. And within each of us, every time we create, that’s actually masculine energy. Every time you put something out into the world, that’s the masculine. When you receive the inspiration for it, that’s the feminine. So, it creates a cycle.
So, when you look at a creative, they receive their inspiration. That’s the feminine. They use their powers to actually create it in the world. That’s the masculine. To keep the cycle going, they must then receive for what they created to balance the energy. And when you look at each of us as being microcosms of that cycle, you can see that if on the world level, there was a constant balance between what went out and what came in, for each action to be balanced with a receptive experience. Right? For us to just pause when we’re attacked, before we respond.
Anything is all masculine, feminine energies. It is a woo concept about it balancing right now. So, that might not make sense to everyone or even appeal. So, I’ll just leave it there.
Miriam Schulman:
What resonates with me is that I do talk about as a creative person, you really have to refuel that creative well. That’s the way I put it. So, I guess that’s what you mean by receiving. So, you have to allow time to receive information, to receive inspiration before you can produce it. Is that right?
Patty Lennon:
That’s true. And then on the reverse, once it’s out in the world, once your creation is out in the world, then receiving money for it. Right? Because it’s nice to receive praise for it, and it’s definitely valuable to get that. But the thing is, when you look at money, being a stronger power on the planet, when money comes then into your world as a result of your creation, you have then taken an energy on the planet and allowed it to be a responsive gift, a creation you put out into the world. And so, suddenly the thing that controls a lot of actions on the planet, which is money, is heading towards art. It’s heading towards creation as opposed to destruction.
Miriam Schulman:
Got it. Okay. So, what I find interesting, like when my clients, my students, they tell me that they give away their art, I’ve always had trouble with that. I’ve always had trouble with giving it away. And it’s not because I’m greedy and I want to make every penny I off of my art, it’s just that for me, I always found that I don’t trust that the person actually really wants it and will value it unless they’ve paid money for it.
Patty Lennon:
Yeah. So, this is where we get into, you don’t have a selling problem, you have a receiving problem. And this is what I believe fundamentally as a business coach. And I want to tell your listeners, just understand, I spent 15 years in corporate banking. I was a VP of product development at a global bank. I know I sound super woo, but I have a firm hold on the material world.
What I have found in my journey of helping entrepreneurs make money and grow their businesses, is that at the very core, whatever wounds need to be healed in each person as a human, it manifests in the sales cycle. And so, when you’re giving something you’ve created a way for free, and we’re going to put on a shelf, anything you create with the intention of it being a gift, right? So, if you are creating a piece for your mother or for someone you love, or someone inspired you by their action and you create a memorial piece, we’re not talking about that. But when you’ve created art, you were a conduit for inspiration. You brought it into the world. When you give it away for free, you have said it is not worthy. And maybe you think the art when it stands alone is worthy. But do you question how worthy you are?
Miriam Schulman:
Interesting.
Patty Lennon:
As you move into a cycle of becoming more powerful around receiving money, asking for money, and then receiving money for what you’ve created, what starts to happen is you are going to be required to heal any wounds within yourself of worthiness, because they bring them to the surface. That to me is what becomes so alive in my work with entrepreneurs is, who cares about the financial success other than it’s fun, but it’s only fun for so long. You know Miriam, you can make a boatload of money. Yes, the initial zing is so fun, but experiencing freedom in your body, on the planet, being free from unworthiness, being free from the fear that you’re not good enough, that’s a permanent joy.
Miriam Schulman:
I always thought that they don’t think their art is good enough, but it’s really deeper than that. What you’re saying, it’s not just that they think the art isn’t good enough. There’s a deeper work that needs to be done. They think they’re not good enough. Is that right?
Patty Lennon:
Right. Because art is completely subjective. I mean, I go into the moment and I look at most of that stuff and I’m like, “What in God’s name is any of this?” Right? If I had produced any of it, I would be like, “Oh my God. That is not worth the canvas it’s been produced on or whatever, but it’s worth hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. And it’s being featured in the moment, because it’s subjective. Right? It’s subjective based on someone else’s deeming it financially worthy. But first, the person that produced it had to open it out to the world to be judged. And most of us don’t want to do that, because the minute you sell something, you open yourself up to someone not buying it. When you give it away for free, you guarantee that you can hand it off without having to face whether someone else would deem it acceptable.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Some of the clients that I start working with said, they’ve never sold anything, but they just give it away for free. So, I ask them, “Well, what do these people do with the art that you give them for free? Did they hang it on the wall?” They go, yeah. Okay. So, if they hung it on the wall, they would’ve paid money for it. If it’s sitting on the shelf in the basement, that’s a different story.
So, one of my client as well, her brother had never hung it up. I said, “Well, you just go back to your brother and tell him you want it back because you’re not selling it for a thousand dollars. Thank you very much. And see what happens.”
Patty Lennon:
Exactly. Some of your art is probably not going to be something that anyone understands its value other than you, but you know how precious that inspiration was. And to then bestow upon it a name, i.e its sales price as $0 is cruel.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Yeah. And then, do you believe in the whole money is a river or it’s good to have money flow to you because then it flows to other people to do good in the world.
Patty Lennon:
Yeah. And that was the other piece of it is, when money is flowing to people who are led by their heart and their purpose, where they channel that flow looks very different than someone who isn’t led by their purpose, who’s in a cycle of greed or deprivation. This is not me making a judgment on other power players out there, it’s just understanding that they are led by fear. And so, where they place their money is led by fear. Whereas someone who’s a creative and an artist, they are led by inspiration. They are by connection to their own inner divine. And so, then where they put that money out to is going to look like that as well. Even if it’s to a local grocer or to another artist, or some charity they believe in, or to buy a piece of art that they want to have in their home, whatever it is, people who are led by their hearts then lead their money by their love.
Miriam Schulman:
And then one thing that’s tricky that I think we should probably navigate, what you’re saying is that people don’t want to put a price tag on their art, because really it’s putting a price tag them themselves. Yes?
Patty Lennon:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. I cannot sit here and say, well, your art is separate from you because it is a hundred percent not true. And when people buy art, usually it’s not because they just like the thing. And this is true, not just in my world, selling art, I know this is true with the clients that you help, Patty, whatever they are, a health coach or whatever. People aren’t just buying the thing, they’re buying the connection, and they’re buying a piece of the artist. That is what drives them to want the art. And people who have had success at whatever level, know this, that the people who have wanted their art or buying their art are usually the people that they know, because they want a piece of that.
Now, of course, we can build celebrity or micro celebrity, and then people who you don’t know, feel like they know you and want a piece of that as well. But it’s a hundred percent true that they are judging you when they judge your art. And there is a value exchange there that does reflect on you. So, what do you think of that?
Patty Lennon:
I would actually say something different. I would say that they’re judging you. I would say they’re holding up a mirror to how you see yourself.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So, explain the difference. This is fascinating.
Patty Lennon:
When you have a bold, grounded understanding of your own worth and value, you put yourself out in the world accordingly, and then that translates into the feeling people have about you, whether it’s, you’re producing art or you’re me, producing coaching or inspiration, or whatever you want to call it. If someone wants a piece of me or wants to be close to me, or experience my energy, that is exactly what they’re trying to do. They’re not trying to get a piece of me. They want to touch the vibration that I am exuding. They want to get a hit off of that or use it to match what they see for themselves.
When someone is judging you as an artist, they’re not judging you. They’re saying, “This is how big you’re appearing in the world to me. This is how you, as a human are showing up for me, specifically.”
Miriam Schulman:
Interesting.
Patty Lennon:
The one thing I can’t do is produce visual art comfortably. It’s not a thing that I do well. When I have to produce something, our friend and our colleague, [Gazul 00:15:32] had me produce something artistic related to my book. I have anxiety. So, I have a thought about my ability to be a visual artist. Right? That’s going to come through in the art because I have a belief about my ability to be a conduit in that form. That’s my limitation. Right? But if I could get over that, generally my vibration is like, “Yeah, I’m a pretty cool person.” And sometimes I make mistakes and sometimes I don’t. The thing is like, if I put my art out into the world, which would not be the quality of what most of your listeners would produce.
Miriam Schulman:
So, I didn’t know you, you made art.
Patty Lennon:
What I’m trying to say is when I attempt to make art, it’s a very painful process.
Miriam Schulman:
When you make art.
Patty Lennon:
There you go.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Patty Lennon:
But where I was going to go is, I bet you, if I put it out in the world, some of my followers would acquire it, even though I know, yes, everything subjective, but objectively, my art would not be something that I would say is a level of what maybe some of the listeners would be, who would not be able to get right now the same price I could. And it’s not because of what your art looks like, it’s because what my art means to that person.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Patty Lennon:
Now, at the same time, someone who doesn’t like me equally, not doesn’t know me, doesn’t like me, resent the hell out of that price. And you know what? That would be perfectly fine for me, because I have zero attachment to people approving of my art. All I can do is put it out in the world, but I don’t see myself as a visual artist, so it’s easier for me to not have that attachment.
Miriam Schulman:
So, people who they want to identify as an artist, it’s going to mean a lot more to them, what that relationship is.
Patty Lennon:
Yes. And also, understand that if something doesn’t sell and you know it’s of a high level of vibrational quality, meaning you have offered it and yourself freely to the world, that that’s okay, because that just means that’s who had eyes on it, and it’s your experience of the lack of purchase. That is the point. So, as long as you experience it freely, it means nothing. And the more you can do that, the more money that’s going flow in, because a piece of this puzzle is for us, at least in my woo, woo world, is for us to have an experience of life with non-attachment, where we can sit in our own power and produce and give to the world from our gifts without needing the world to tell us that we’re good enough.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. People buy art, because they’re connected to the artist, and/or they feel a strong connection to what it is you are painting. So, somebody could never have heard of me and walk into my art booth because I’m at an art fair, and let’s say I have a painting, which I do, of the Brooklyn Bridge and, “Oh my God, that’s where my fiance proposed to me.” They’re buying that painting, right? Or something similar. So, I find that a lot when I sell landscapes, that it could be a connection to the art itself. Now, of course, I’m in it. I’ve put myself into it. My Brooklyn Bridge painting is not going to look the same as your Brooklyn Bridge painting, but people can form a very strong connection to the artwork as well, without really having a history of whether they like or dislike the artist.
Patty Lennon:
Yes. Every place we go to, my husband and I, we will usually buy some type of art. One, because I just have a basic belief to support local artists. It’s just a fundamental value I have. But also because we want to memorialize where we went.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Patty Lennon:
The way we choose it is first, we wait to see what piece we’re both going to connect to. And then we ask the artist for the story. And the story is usually what pushes us into saying that, “Yes, that’s the piece.” Even though we consciously, and I can articulate to you what our process is, I think to your point, the freedom of the story and that your willingness to let it be out in the world, whether you’re telling the story with words or not, that send the piece off with energy too. And because story is such a big part of selling too, allowing your story to be enough.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. I love that. Did you collect art when you were in Cape Cod this summer?
Patty Lennon:
I didn’t get a painting this time. I actually got something for my daughter’s room. But yes, we go into all the galleries in P Town.
Miriam Schulman:
Nice. I actually have an interesting story. That would be a good time to bring this up actually. So, I went to P Town this summer as well, and my daughter and I went into this soap store. I’ll give them a shout out, Good Scents. It’s on Commercial Street.
Patty Lennon:
Love it.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So, we were looking for soap, and we walk in, and all of a sudden right on the side, I’m drawn right to it. There’s these soaps that have pieces of art on it. And one of them says New Kamala, which is the beach that I visit every single year when we visit. So, I ran over there, I pick it up up. And Patty, it was my art on the soap label. And okay, so the listeners cannot see you, but Patty’s jaw just dropped to the floor. It was my art in the sense that it was not legally being used on… You got that already. It was not legally. And the funny thing is I described this hypothetical situation like a couple of weeks ago, or whenever it was, a couple months ago on the podcast, I had a lawyer on, and we’re talking about the hypothetical, if this happens, what do you do? So, I was completely prepared.
I picked up the soap. I marched over to the counter. I said, “I need information on the vendor of this soap bar.” Because the owner of the store doesn’t produce everything in a shop. He doesn’t know there was an infringement here. So, he was very kind. He gave me the email and the phone number. And before I left the store, I had already tapped out my cease and desist letter on my phone, “I am the legal copyright owner. And if you don’t make payment, there will be whatever litigation or legal action taken.” And by the end of the weekend, I had $500 in my bank account from that soap. I probably could have asked for more too, by the way. Yeah.
Patty Lennon:
Well, I think in your case, it’s not the amount, it was your willingness to defend your position.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, also when I found out from the Good Scents guy that these soaps are all over Massachusetts, it’s not just his soap shop. He told me like, “Oh, these soaps are in every shop, candle soap store throughout the Cape.”
Patty Lennon:
That’s so interesting, because before we started recording or maybe we were recording, but before we started the podcast, you and I were talking about a bold face infringement.
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly.
Patty Lennon:
[inaudible 00:22:51] known in the last like 24 hours. And it’s fascinating to me because it’s kind of my world. And it’s just shocking to me that people will just take.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, unbelievable. So, what Patty is referring to, Jay Shetty. So, I know he basically narrates these memes, but how is he monetizing all of this? Because apparently he’s made millions of dollars.
Patty Lennon:
I actually have no idea. I have no idea. I know he’s got a coaching business now. What he hangs his hat on is creating, how to create a viral video. But honestly, I don’t know a whole lot about him, other than seeing his videos show up in my feed and just not liking them that much. If you’re curious, just go look up Jay Shetty on Facebook or probably YouTube, I don’t know, and just watch a couple of his videos.
And my point was that if you can drop down into yourself, into your inner wisdom, you will always be able to feel the truth. And so, like Prince Ea is like another person that puts out similar types of videos. When I watch his stuff, I constantly feel something super powerful. Now, maybe I’ll find out 10 years from now or a year from now, he does that stuff. But I don’t think so. I could just feel him in the videos. When I watch Jay Shetty stuff, I’m like, it just feels like a poser. That’s what he’s always felt like to me.
Miriam Schulman:
Interesting.
Patty Lennon:
But that’s okay. There’s posers out there, a big deal. My lesson from that and my lesson to people is, before we all get caught up in this witch hunt, is just notice whether you already knew there was some thing up with this, and why were you willing to consume it? Because he had 11 million hits on the video already. Was that enough for you?
Miriam Schulman:
He gets very pretty eyes too, I have to say.
Patty Lennon:
He’s a very pretty man.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, he’s very pretty.
Patty Lennon:
If your answer is, “I watched it because I like watching Jay Shetty’s face.” Good for you. That’s an honest answer. Good for you. But if you were watching him and drinking in his words, and saying like, “Yeah, he’s super inspirational.” I just want you to go back and just feel if that really felt like the truth or was it just crowd energy. And I can’t think of the right word.
Miriam Schulman:
Mob.
Patty Lennon:
Yeah. It’s this idea that if everyone thinks it’s good, it must be good.
Miriam Schulman:
Mob mentality.
Patty Lennon:
Right.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Patty Lennon:
Which I think is really what it’s about.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Patty Lennon:
And if we are going to survive in a healthy way, what social media brings to us and really use it for good, you are going to have to learn how to show up within those social media channels with your integrity and your own grounded sense of what is right.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And there would’ve been nothing wrong with him using those quotes and reading them. The problem was is that he was attributing it to himself. That’s the misstep.
Patty Lennon:
All his videos say, written and produced. If he just said produced by Jay Shetty, I’d almost give him a pass.
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly. Exactly. right. Performed by, produced by. But I mean, he was blatantly ripping off, not just people, I haven’t heard of, but like Mark Twain. Okay. Posting a meme with, first of all, there were the videos, but then also just the still quote, where it was a Mark Twain quote with his name underneath it, not Mark Twain’s name, Jay Shetty’s name. So, it’s was like, wow.
Patty Lennon:
Yeah. And then can we say, is it more concerning that he did this or that there are all these people that did not know this was a Mark Twain quote?
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Exactly. Well, I mean, it’s his audience. They’re millennials.
Patty Lennon:
Look, I get it.
Miriam Schulman:
They’re not the people who listen to this podcast. I don’t know. There’s not too many people listening to my podcast under 40.
Patty Lennon:
Yeah. Yeah. You’re right. We’re grownups and we’re different.
Miriam Schulman:
I apologize to all the 30 year olds out there. And I would love for you to call me out on that because I want to know who you are, my 30 year olds listening to me.
Patty Lennon:
And I would also say for you 30 and 20 year olds, I just love all over your energy and your youngness. I do. Thank you for just being here and reminding me of what it looks like to be youthful.
Miriam Schulman:
Did you see the Netflix movie, Wine Country?
Patty Lennon:
Yes
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. Okay.
Patty Lennon:
Pretty much.
Miriam Schulman:
So, this doesn’t spoil anything. But it is a B movie, but it’s good for a chapter or two. Right? It’s like a lying in the couch, there’s nothing else on TV type of movie. This is not a, “Oh, you must see this.” Type of movie. But there were two moments in the movie that was like, “Oh, this is so classic.” One was when they fangirled on Brene Brown.
Patty Lennon:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
So, all these women… And what I also loved about the movie, they were pretty much like 48 to 50, but they all looked like 48 to 50, not like real houses wife versions with their plastic surgeryed up and professional. They looked like real people.
Patty Lennon:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. I loved. So, they’re in a restaurant and they’re like, “You’re not going to believe who’s here. You’re not going to believe who’s here.” And the young waitress is guessing all these pop culture, millennial people, who I don’t really know who they are either. And then like, “It’s Brene Brown.” And they go running over. And actually she makes a cameo appearance in the movie and just reminds them about boundaries.
Patty Lennon:
It is so good from the pure perspective of being a… I’m 47. And so, just seeing a movie that honestly looks like what it looks like when 40 something and 50 something women are on a vacation, it’s just so refreshing. Right? It would’ve been better as like a half hour maybe, but it was good.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. It felt very honest, the movie.
Patty Lennon:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
A really good movie though is on Netflix also, it is called Call to Courage. Have you seen that?
Patty Lennon:
I have not.
Miriam Schulman:
No? Okay. So, it’s a Brene Brown. I think she’s giving a keynote, and it’s basically they’ve recorded. It’s on Netflix. It’s amazing.
Patty Lennon:
Oh, actually I have seen that.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, okay.
Patty Lennon:
And I will tell you that there’s one thing and I did go into it with my eyes open. So, I don’t know that I could give myself credit as a white woman of seeing this without it being my eyes being open to it. But it was a conversation I had with a lot of women of color. I actually did on my own podcast. I had a whole conversation with a woman, who is a real leader in diversity training. It is a piece that Brene does that is really only applicable and helpful to white people as a whole.
Miriam Schulman:
Interesting.
Patty Lennon:
And I won’t say that that’s my opinion, but that is the feedback I got from people who are diversity leaders, that there’s a problem with the concept of vulnerability, the way it’s taught, because vulnerability is not an equal opportunity sport. I will just leave that there. That when I watched it, I watched it already having been given that feedback and could really see it. That being said, for me as a white woman of privilege, who always had education, had everything that I would need to succeed, it was really powerful for me.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, I might need to watch it again and keep my eye out on like, this is a white privilege piece. Do you feel that in a lot of her work that the research is not-
Patty Lennon:
No. And even within the discussion of the community that this was brought to my awareness, there was, even the person bringing it up was saying, and honestly, if I could point to where she said it, I would speak more about who the individual is, but she was saying she loves Brene. And people were saying in the comments like, “I think if you brought this, Brene, she’d be willing to look at this within herself and the way the topic is produced.” I don’t think it is a piece that was produced from a lens of white privilege. I think that it was edited through the lens of white privilege.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Patty Lennon:
I don’t claim to understand white privilege anyway, because I live it. Right? I think there’s just, you can understand it in concept, but you can really only see it when it’s given back to you through someone who doesn’t have white privilege.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. I mean, I do see the male white privilege very clearly, and how there’s just a disconnect sometimes with people not understanding- That’s a whole another conversation. Let’s not go there today.
Patty Lennon:
People do that on my podcast.
Miriam Schulman:
We will. Okay. There is two things I want to talk about though, before we wrap up. The one thing is I did want to talk about your sales script.
Patty Lennon:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
And how artists can use what you’re teaching in your five steps sales script that is actually a freebie on your website. Is that correct?
Patty Lennon:
Sure. Anyone can download it. It’s written to a service based business owner, probably more like a coach or a consultant, but I think it’s easily interpreted by a creative.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. I do want to interpret it for artists, at least the first two questions, how I’ve always used your foundation in the beginning to sell art, which I found very interesting. So, first, we will link up in the show notes to your sales script, but could you just say the URL for everybody who’s listening in their car?
Patty Lennon:
Sure. Yep. It’s pattylennon.com/salesscript.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, easy. Okay. Tell us about the first step in the sales script. And then I will translate that for artist.
Patty Lennon:
Perfect. So, set the vision for where your client wants to go.
Miriam Schulman:
So, when Patty is teaching this, she might be helping somebody who’s a weight loss client. So, she’s helping someone who maybe helps people lose weight. So, the weight loss coach might help their client imagine their thinner, more beautiful self. Right? But that first step is exactly what I do in my sales conversations when I’m selling art, I will ask the people who are admiring my art, “Where do you imagine hanging that painting?” So, do you see how that question really is that same first step in your sales process?
Patty Lennon:
I love it. I love the interpretation. Because the place I was going to, where I thought you were going, I don’t understand what that sales process looks like. Boots on the ground, usually I like to actually hear a recording of a sales conversation to translate it.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. This is actually would be, let’s say in the art booth at an art show. The people are coming up and they’re looking at a painting and they like a painting, but there’s a journey you have to take them, from just liking it, just like you said, when you, your husband, whatever, from liking it to now imagining it in their home. And basically, when I ask that question, it gets them to imagine it, now imagine the ownership of it.
Patty Lennon:
So, I would offer another option-
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Patty Lennon:
… because I’m not sure everyone is as bold as you are. And that would be, what is the feeling you get when you hang a piece of artwork that you uniquely have found, when you found an artist and fallen in love with them and been able to place that art in your home, how does that feel? Or why is that important to you?
Miriam Schulman:
Interesting
Patty Lennon:
So, the goal of that first step is to connect them to the energy of success. And so, success for your buyers is the feeling they get at having this unique art that they found on the wall.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. All right. I’m going to try that at my next art show.
Patty Lennon:
Well, I love your question better than mine, but it takes a level of confidence.
Miriam Schulman:
No, but I can use both of them because here’s why. All right. I can only ask my question when they have already settled on liking something and I could see that. Right? But a lot of times they’ve come into my booth and they’re browsing, then that would be the question I could ask. Actually, what I’ll ask is, “Do you like to collect art? What kind of art do you like to collect?” But I like the one that you said about, how do you feel? Say it again. You said it so beautifully.
Patty Lennon:
How do you feel when you hang a piece of art that you uniquely found?
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Patty Lennon:
That was something that you uncovered. Because that’s what I think is the key to your buyers, right? When they stop by your stall, they are craving that feeling of discovery, of uncovering a treasure. They are on a treasure hunt. And they are looking for the joy of art and the ego gratification of finding something first.
Miriam Schulman:
The thrill of the hunt, as my mother likes to say, who likes to do thrift shop stores.
Patty Lennon:
Yeah. And for people who are regulars in those spaces, they are seeking a dopamine hit or a fulfillment of a dopamine hit. So, dopamine is the seek and find. So, dopamine gets released when they get into the fare ground, when they get into the expo, wherever it is, they have an immediate hit of dopamine. They need that hit to be matched with a find. Dopamine gives them the seeking energy, and that needs to be matched with a find for them to feel complete.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. So, we’re doing some such a service by helping them by the art work.
Patty Lennon:
Yes. Because they’ll go home completely depleted and unfulfilled without it.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes, without receiving that. No wait, we’re receiving.
Patty Lennon:
Yes. Well, and they’re receiving, right?
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Patty Lennon:
They’re receiving in exchange for their money, they’re getting their dopamine hit met. They’re getting their joy fixed for the day. And they’re getting a piece of quality art that they get to enjoy for years to come.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. Okay. So, now there was one more thing, the close, the loop that I really wanted to ask you, what is this book that you’re writing?
Patty Lennon:
It’s a memoir that is meant to be underlying. The memoir is a coaching tool. And it’s really just the process. I really just want to tell the story of how I went from a type A control freak, perfectionist, that had no access to magic in the world, to suddenly waking up one day, finding out she was an intuitive and seeing magic everywhere, and what that journey looked like.
Patty Lennon:
So, that other, what I think I would leave my reader is a middle aged woman who over gives and is hyper successful, and yet has all the juice has been drained out of her life. She is grateful for what she has. She knows she should be grateful, but there’s no magic. And I just want to tell through storytelling how I found it.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. And we will definitely have you back when you publish it.
Patty Lennon:
Thank you.
Miriam Schulman:
As you know, I love authors. And my listeners are readers. And I think you could pretty much describe my listeners with that description. But I think for a lot of my listeners, not all of them, but many of them, they’ve been overachiever as homemakers. And not that they don’t work, many of them do work, but just pushing themselves to the back burner, whether that is in the home or in a job, serving other people that they’ve been serving other people their lives, but not so much themselves. So, I think they would really resonate with that.
Patty Lennon:
Thank you. Thank you.
Miriam Schulman:
All right, Patty. So, if you like what you heard today, I invite you to listen to Patty’s podcast, Wealth and Purpose. She has some really, really juicy episodes on there. I especially liked the one about your child’s birth story. Speaking of vulnerable, you were super vulnerable with that episode, but it was really a beautiful way of making us understand how, whether you’re birthing a piece of artwork, or you’re birthing a business, or both, that things are going to evolve on their own and there’s right or wrong to how fast that happens. So, I really liked that episode.
So, you should definitely check out the Wealth and Purpose Podcast, and also check out her sales script, which we have linked up today’s episode. Like I said is number 60. So, you can find everything about today in schulmanart.com/60. All right. Patty, do you have any last words for my listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Patty Lennon:
I do. So, I met Miriam probably about six months ago, maybe less.
Miriam Schulman:
Less. No, I know, I just spoke to Jen this morning. I was on her podcast. And she said the same thing. I was like, “No, it was just May.”
Patty Lennon:
Yeah. Oh my goodness.
Miriam Schulman:
I know. Doesn’t it feel like longer though?
Patty Lennon:
I feel like at this stage in my life, I’m a seeker for real people. I just want to say, I want to affirm how real you are. And my definition of real is someone who does her a hundred percent to just be there, be in her life, be in her work, be with her people, be in the moment. And there’s a gift to the rest of the world when you can show up like that, because you give everyone else permission to show up like that. So, I just really want to thank you for being willing to honor me with a guest spot here.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, thank you so much for those kind words. And believe me, I recognize what a gift you are, so I’m always happy to hair that on my podcast. So, thank you.
Now, to wrap this all up, I just want to remind everybody to subscribe to my podcast, if you enjoyed today. I want you to encourage you to follow. And why don’t you just share it with a friend, that would do them a favor, not just me.
So, that’s it for today. Thanks so much for being with me here today. I will see you, same time, same place next week. Make it a great one. Bye for now.
Thank you for listening to The Inspiration Place Podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram at Schulman Art, and of course on, schulmanart.com.
Miriam Schulman:
This episode was sponsored by The Artist Incubator. It’s my small group coaching program, where I help you take your art business to the next level with practical strategies that work. Imagine what it would feel like to be easily selling your art and profiting from your passion.
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