THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
This is Jennifer Rosenfeld and I help musicians create thriving businesses while balancing their creative work. And you’re listening to The Inspiration Place podcast with Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman:
Today’s episode is sponsored by the artist incubator. If you’re wondering how to skyrocket your success as a professional artist step by step, and if you’re ready to start investing in your art career, you’re in the right place. I’ve done it and I can show you how to do it too. Using the passion to profit framework to learn more, go to schulmanart.com/biz. That’s B-I-Z.
Announcer:
It’s The Inspiration Place podcast with artist, Miriam Schulman. Welcome to The Inspiration Place podcast. An art world inside a podcast. For artists by an artist where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the arts. And now your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, hello. This is your host, artist Miriam Schulman and you’re listening to episode number 83 of The Inspiration Place podcast. I am so thrilled that you’re here today. Today we’re talking all about balancing your own creative practice with running a business. Even if it’s a creative business, sometimes our own personal creative projects get pushed to the side. So in this episode we’re talking about how to reorganize your work structure in order to make space for pursuing big dream creative projects. How to create a business that works around that goal and how to stop overworking so that you make time for creativity that will define your legacy.
Miriam Schulman:
Before we dive in today’s interview, I just wanted to let you know that Jennifer Rosenfeld, my guest and I recorded this over a month ago before a lot of the shit hit the fan, so to speak, in terms of the coronavirus. However, what we are talking about is actually more important than ever. As you’ll learn during today’s episode, my guest Jennifer Rosenfeld helps musicians insulate their careers from the unexpected. She mostly works with performing musicians. The same is also true for what I do. I am really helping artists also insulate their careers from these bumps in the road.
Miriam Schulman:
So if you are ready to create a new paradigm where you can work in hustle less and earn more money and have more time for your creative practice, we are here to help you and we are more committed than ever to help you get through this time and come on the other side of it stronger and more successful than ever. This is possible. This is what I’ve done for myself and this is what I help my clients create. The last few weeks have shown all of us that we as creative people, whether you’re a musician or an artist, need to be the source of your own opportunities and income. Relying entirely on employment or gig offers is really risky, riskier than any of us thought.
Miriam Schulman:
Here’s the thing, it’s not as though things were that great for musicians and artists before Corona. We always had to work hard and create our own opportunities. I don’t want you to burn out. I don’t want you to be stretched emotionally. I don’t want you to have to schedule every minute to squeeze it all in. I want you to focus on what’s most important so that you have time for your creativity. So you have time for your family and most importantly so that you make money. There is a better way, whether you are a classical musician or an artist. We are here to help you. I want to remind you that I am still taking calls for people who want to learn how to profit from their passion. A strategy session is free with me, for those who qualify. All you have to do is go to schulmanart.com/biz as in B-I-Z. I will help you map out the steps.
Miriam Schulman:
If you’re home right now, this may be the best time for you to really work on your career so that you won’t have to be in this situation ever again. Okay, so I hope that you enjoy today’s episode with Jennifer Rosenfeld. We’re talking all about balancing your creative practice with running a business, but just so you know, all of this is very relevant. My daughter who I mention a lot in this episode. She’s still getting her lessons over Skype, her cello lessons. And I know many parents who have not discontinued their children’s music lessons throughout this crisis and many parents who have not discontinued their children’s art lessons throughout this crisis. If anything, people need art and music more than ever. This is what makes us feel good. This is what life is all about and this is what makes life worth living. Okay. On to today’s show.
Miriam Schulman:
Today’s guest helps high level musicians create thriving businesses that support their dream creative life just as she’s done for herself. As a musical theater writer and composer, a leading arts entrepreneurship educator and speaker. She’s the coauthor of Awakening your Business Brain, An iCadenza Guide to Launching your Music Career. With a JD and MBA from Stanford Law School and Graduate School of Business. Today’s guest has consulted for and taught at institutions Stanford, Peabody at John Hopkins and the Frost School Of Music At The University Of Miami. Please welcome to The Inspiration Place, Jennifer Rosenfeld. Well hey Jen, welcome to the show.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Thank you so much, Miriam.
Miriam Schulman:
A lot of times I will have somebody on because either I want to get in front of their audience or whatever. And I have to confess that one of the main reasons I’m having you on is because I want to get my daughter listening to the podcast again.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Awesome.
Miriam Schulman:
So I had to do something related to music.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Okay, we’ll make it happen.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes and all her friends so they can fan girl me too. And you. Both of us.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Mostly you.
Miriam Schulman:
No, you too. Both of us because we’re so awesome. And also it never hurts to be a friend of the podcast host. I have a lot of friends on. So Jennifer is somebody I know in real life we’ve met through, again this again. Because people have been meeting a lot of my Mastermind buddies. We met in Columbia and also in San Diego. And sadly we won’t be hanging out there again. But you can come to New York.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
I will, yes. I’ll be in New York this spring actually.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh awesome. Okay. We’ll make some plans. So Jennifer coaches musicians, they’re artists too. But everybody thinks they’re are unique snow flower is that right?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
That’s right. Absolutely.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So that’s why we have niches. But I do want to hear about your work and I also want to hear about your musical that you’re working on.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Well if you want, I can give a little background of how I got to this.
Miriam Schulman:
I mean you have some pretty impressive street credentials with this law degree. How did you get from there to here? That’s a great question.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
I co founded a business called iCadenza over 10 years ago. That was really the first thing I ever did after college. I co founded it with a high school friend of mine named Julia and that was our first career starting when we are 23 years old. So I spent about 10 years working with musicians on all kinds of career development, project development, mostly in the space of classical music because that’s my background. I never expected this path to work out, which is why I went to law school. That was the original plan.
Miriam Schulman:
And Julia’s a musician, how do you know Julia?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Yeah, we met in high school choir and we collaborated together. I’m a pianist by background. We always shared this love of classical music and wanted to be in the arts in some way and carved our own way to be in this industry.
Miriam Schulman:
Tell me then, who is the typical client who works with you? So just for people who don’t have my whole biography memorized or people who are new to the show because I’m assuming your people are going to be listening to. So my daughter is a cello student at a very serious conservatory, The Hartt School of Music in Connecticut. Whenever a parent says, “My daughter plays the cello” there’s always the yeah, yeah until you… Do you know what I’m talking about? Sometimes I get the yeah, yeah. Until I tell them no, actually-
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
She’s legit.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Actually she’s in a conservatory and they’re like, she used the key word. It’s like the password. So she’s at the Hartt School of Music and she is a music ed major. So I think unlike a lot of the musicians you coach, you coach mostly performers. Is that right?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
It’s a real mix. Over the last 10 years or so, I’ve worked with so many musicians in different areas. I’ve worked with a lot of performers, some conductors, composers. Right now I would say I work with a lot of folks who are educators and in a very serious way that might not be the entirety of what they do, but that is a key part of their career portfolio and it’s something that’s very important to them and their mission. While I’ve worked on a lot of different projects with classical musicians, my focus right now is helping them really strengthen their income streams through teaching or coaching businesses so that they can have the time to work on a big dream creative project, which might be an artistic project or an educational project. Or to just have more time with their families and be able to work less.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
So I love working with educators and I think nearly anyone who finds their way into a career in classical music has a real appreciation for education because this is a career path that requires so much training and so much of the legacy of teachers and knowledge being passed down. So I love being around people who value that so much.
Miriam Schulman:
One thing I get sometimes for those who don’t know better, let’s put it that way, other well-meaning parents, when I said, “Oh Thalia is going into music” and they’re like, oh is that such a good idea? And they think it’s going to be such a hard path. But the truth is to be a music educator, the barriers of entry are so high to get to the point where you’re qualified to do that, that it really is that the supply does not meet the demand. So that’s why the placement rate is actually really, especially if you go to a school like Hartt or these other places that you’ve taught at Peabody or The Frost, like these top tier schools. It really is a viable career. Now, one thing you were sharing with me, Jennifer when we met. That sometimes these musicians, they find themselves in what they thought was their dream job, they’re in an orchestra, but then they feel stuck. Can you share a little bit about that? Because I think that’s a really interesting perspective.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Yeah, absolutely. For any musician, classical musician who is very serious career bound, there have been a few career pathways that have been propped up as what success means. Whether that’s getting into an orchestra and getting tenure or becoming a university conservatory professor and becoming tenured. Or being a touring soloist and performing a hundred plus dates a year. All of these things can be great, but for a lot of people, they reach that destination and that’s really exciting. It’s awesome. And either they might discover, wow, this is not what I thought it was. This is not actually my dream. I’ve never asked myself what my dream is. I was just like borrowing someone else’s or they get there, they do that.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
They do that for a while. Maybe they do that for like 10 years, 15 years, and they’re sort of like feeling a little antsy and feeling like, I think there’s more for me beyond just doing this for the rest of my life in this way. I love working with the clients who I support because they’ve already achieved an incredible level of success by many standards and yet they feel they have more to give. They have new frontiers of their creativity that they want to explore and that’s what we get to work on.
Miriam Schulman:
Now I’m realizing that you may not have shared it, but I started listening to one of your client’s podcasts, Stand Partners for Life. Well, maybe it was actually a story that he was telling. That whole conversation around that you know you’re going to be this orchestra musician, but okay, now I’m only playing standard orchestra rep. It’s like how many times can you pay new world symphony? My daughter would kill me for saying that actually. It’s her favorite piece of music. But when you’re just playing standard rep all the time, it can then start to feel not as creative and not leaving what we talked about at the beginning of the hour, that you’re actually making a creative legacy. So what are some of the projects that people do want to work on that they would define as a legacy project?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Well, it’s different for different people. But a lot of thee most satisfying creative work that many of us would love to do does not make money or it doesn’t make money right now or it doesn’t make enough money. For so many musicians who are requiring all of their money to come from a very limited list of activities. They get themselves in a situation where they don’t have the time or energy or brain space to work on those really important creative projects that are not money-making right now. And to be honest, a lot of the folks that I talk to or that I work with, they’re realizing that their financial situation, even if it’s stable and okay. It’s actually not enough to support the life they want and the family that they have and or they’re realizing that they’re working way too much. They’re just drained and it could actually become a health hazard if they don’t start working less.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
And yet they feel I can’t work less because how much I work now is tied to my income and I can’t lower my income. So it’s this challenging cycle where there isn’t enough time and there isn’t enough money to sort of reset everything. So a lot of times, the first step that I’m working on with a client is how do we restructure your life so that you can be making more money using your expertise, using skills that you like you have to offer as a gift to the world but doing it in a way that’s way more profitable than anything you’ve done before so that you can start to win back your time and start turning down the gigs that you wouldn’t take anymore. And even musicians at a very high level are taking on a lot of extra work that they wouldn’t take on if they didn’t really need to.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, and just because we’re speaking to a lot of my audience who may not be familiar with the musician life that, when you overwork as a musician you are prone to repetitive use injuries. You get, I don’t know if carpal tunnel is the proper word, but that’s that there’s tendinitis. My daughter is even just in the conservatory level for it. The demands of her practice schedule for that she has suffered from pinched nerves and hand injuries and this can sideline and musician. Besides the fact that it can be very painful, but then it can sideline you from what your core activity might be. If you’re taking on too many gigging, as you said, then you may not be able to perform in the orchestra or whatever it is that you’re doing. It can completely sideline you.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Absolutely. You’re at higher risk for injury. Also, musicians spend so much time driving to gigs, you might spend eight hours a week in the car going to gigs that don’t pay that much, but you’re still counting on it. And then just on top of that, being tired from performing all the time, from driving all the time. So many musicians I work with, their life is this finely tuned watch where everything has to work perfectly and anything that throws them off, like if you get sick or if you’re running late, the whole puzzle starts to fall apart.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
That’s such a high demanding, high stress situation to be in. And it’s really hard to be creative when you’re there. So oftentimes when I work with someone, we are just restructuring. And once they do that, then there’s finally space for them to consider. Okay. I have a bigger creative dream. And for some of them, some of my clients, they really see their part of their legacy as being an educator and creating a method, having their educational ideas reach people around the world and not just a limited number of students who can study with them in person.
Miriam Schulman:
So would an example of that, I’m just trying to pull from what my daughter’s chats are. Okay. So for example, her professor, we’ll give him a name. Professor Meititle from the Hartt Conservatory took a sabbatical so he could play all the proper [inaudible 00:17:33]. So would that be considered a creative project for a legacy for leaving some teaching pedi… What’s the word for that?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Pedagogy.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, thank you.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Yeah, it totally could be, working on something like that.
Miriam Schulman:
What would be an example of something one of your clients has worked on?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Yeah. I have a client who’s working on this performance project about a female pianists and composers throughout history. And so that’s a recital with a live film and she’s going to turn that into the basis for a book as well. I have clients who want to do recording projects, composers where they have like a big piece they want to write. It’s like my situation. I wanted to write a musical. And then for some of them it really is just, I want to be home with my family. I have young kids and I want to be there for them. It’s a real mix of things, but so often they haven’t had the time to really dream big.
Miriam Schulman:
How have you been able to, and you can just use a specific example, like a case study helped them reorganize it so they can do it. What would be something, a blind spot maybe that they’re not seeing that you usually go in there and help them fix?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
I do think that through teaching or coaching, that’s the best way that musicians can make money because that is an understood thing that people want. But I’m a huge advocate out of getting out of hourly pricing and restructuring to charge higher prices, sell packages, and not necessarily teach an hourly lesson every week. So a big part of what I’ve done with a handful of my clients, especially those who have a larger audience, have a bigger profile like Nathan Cole, whose podcast you mentioned Stand Partners for Life. Is to create a group coaching program. And I think he currently has 24 violinists in it. It’s a six month experience. There’s a mix of prerecorded content. He teaches group studio class, and then people get a private lesson but only once a month. And the price point is a lot higher than an hourly lesson would be, but the overall result they get at the end of six months. I told him it was like, how can the result they get in six months be better than if they took six months of private lessons with you?
Miriam Schulman:
What kind of people sign up to work with him? Are they super adult super fans of the orchestra who just think, oh, this is my bucket list. This would be so cool to learn violin from this famous concert master is that-
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
It’s a real mix. His approach is someone who… He tends to attract people who like to get into the nitty gritty of the mechanics of technique. So people who like to geek out a little bit around violin technique and not just use abstract metaphors. His students are a mix of really serious professionals in orchestras around the world who are still auditioning. And then I think he has some very advanced amateur players who have careers in all sorts of fields, but they’ve been very serious violinists their whole lives and just want to keep bettering themselves and improving.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s awesome. I just want to also point out that there are some common principles that I share with my clients that I work with. So you mentioned not doing once off things. So that’s a big thing I work with my clients, whether they’re teaching, not about offering this one session that it’s always selling a package of sessions if you’re a teacher. But also trying to think in terms of multiples, even when you’re creating your art so that you want to offer a set of prints or you think about a triptych or you work in a collection so that it encourages your collectors to not just do a once off purchase, but to really invest in something that’s a little more meaningful.
Miriam Schulman:
And then the basic example that I use all the time that I find too many artists, fine artists, painters do, is they try to sell the single note card. I’m like, you are never going to make a living selling $5 note cards, like fine package them up and offer five for 20, that’s okay. Let somebody spend $20 not $5 but better yet, let them buy a print. Because a person who’s just buying a single note card, most likely they’re going home and they’re framing it. So don’t give them the $5 options. So it’s similar right, Jennifer?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
100% and it’s like so off…I don’t know if you find this in the art world to Miriam, but I think everyone has money issues. All of us. And I found in music, those are compounded. There’s a lot of beliefs around how we relate to money. A lot of the times when musicians think about what should I charge, how should I work? There surely thinking about it from the place of what can this other person afford and not from the place of what do I need to live and to feel good in my life and how do I get my needs met. So when you talk about selling packages, we both know this as business owners. Being able to predict our income and know how much money we’re going to be making, not just this month but a few months down the line is really, really helpful. So a lot of it is creating new financial practices that actually support someone to be a bit more comfortable and stable in their lives.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And I would take that even another step further. What I see artists and musicians doing is they think about what they would want to pay for something which is the wrong thing. So you’re going to value it less because this is something that comes easy to you than somebody who doesn’t have your skills and wants to learn it. And we may value other things more like going to a concert, I don’t know. But like I was just thinking, there’s some people who will pay extra money for organic produce and other people don’t.
Miriam Schulman:
So just because what you are willing to pay for that thing is not the right question to ask and which is different. I know you said, well they think about what the other person can pay, but they’re thinking it through their own lens rather than… They’re thinking what they would pay if they were the other person not actually what the other person can pay or wants to pay or is willing to pay.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Exactly. Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Miriam Schulman:
And then I don’t know about you, but I found just in general, whether it’s art for sale, whether it’s a class, the customer, the collector always values it more when they’ve paid more.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Absolutely. I really believe that people value it more when they’ve paid more and when they are treated like a VIP in the process of buying something. I mean we both know because we work with coaches, we’ve spent a lot of money working with coaches. We know what it’s like to invest in our development that way. And there’s something that I really appreciate about working with a coach where they take me through the process of enrolling me or me deciding to purchase what they offer. And it’s a really powerful process and it might be a little scary for me, but it’s a life changing experience to make that decision. It’s not just, oh how do you feel about paying me this? And so I think it’s how to empower musicians, artists in that sales conversation to realize this is a moment where we can treat someone who wants to work with us in a really amazing way. Help them accomplish their goals. And the experience is worth money in addition to the deliverable.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And a lot of times now, whether we’re talking about teaching, coaching, artwork. That the person on the other end of it, they’re not making a decision about whether your art is worth it, whether your music lesson is worth it, whether your art class is worth it. They’re really making decision whether they feel they are worth investing in. And that’s why what you said is so true. That’s so powerful. When we ourselves decide to invest in ourselves, it feels good to say yes to yourself and invest in yourself.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Absolutely. And especially if you feel like this is going to help me accomplish something I really want or being more of who I want to be, that’s worth so much. It’s amazing.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. So I work with more people who maybe haven’t completely taken on the professional role yet, and so once they decide to invest in me. It allows them to say, oh, wait a minute, I decided I’m getting coaching from a professional artists, therefore I am a professional artist. So it’s the transformation almost happens in the transaction. Of course, we both teach them all the things and all that. So it’s not just about writing a check and magic happens, but there’s so much that just happens once they say yes to themselves.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Oh, you’re totally right about that. Absolutely.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, so now I want to hear about your musical. So you had to take your own medicine and restructure your time so that you could work on this project. Am I right?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Exactly. Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
So what did you change to make time for working on a musical?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
I realized I wanted to write musicals I think when I was in high school. That was always my dream. And then I didn’t work on it for many, many years. At least 10 years. The dream was there, but I felt insecure about it. I’d had some negative experiences with music teachers in college that shook my confidence, but it was I think 2014. I re-acknowledged that the dream was there and over the course of a few years I took some very baby steps towards starting. I think it was in the summer of 2018 I realized, okay, I’m ready to make a bigger commitment to writing this musical because it just feels a part of me is being denied by not working on it. But I also felt the way that I was working at that time was not going to make it possible for me to write the musical the way that I wanted.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
I was still running my company, iCadenza. I was managing a team, not a huge team, but a team and I was working a lot and I felt, especially because I had a team in that business structure. I felt I really needed to be clocking in at least a nine to five, 40 hour work week situation. I realized I don’t want to write this musical, at night on the weekends and have to squeeze it into my life. Because I had done that for the last few years and it’s hard. Part of it was really just coming into clarity around what is the ideal life that I wanted and I wasn’t looking to totally not do it. I wasn’t looking to spend 100% of my time on the musical, but I wanted the freedom to spend several hours during the week, during the day writing it.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Before getting on this call with you, I was writing a musical on 1:00 PM on a Thursday. And to be able to do that guilt free without feeling anyone’s waiting on me or that I should be doing other work is so amazing. So a lot of it started with just clarifying what I wanted and admitting that to myself. I then decided to step down from running iCadenza. I’d been in the role for 10 years. I felt it was time to let someone else step in and we appointed an amazing new CEO.
Miriam Schulman:
Who went to the Hartt School of Music.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Who went to the Hartt School of Music. Yes, Lisa Husseini. She’s amazing and went to a great conservatory.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes, we bonded over that because she gave me the same attitude that we described at the beginning. I said, my daughter plays cello and she’s like, sure she does. I was like, no, actually-
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
And it’s the Hartt school.
Miriam Schulman:
Right.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Legit.
Miriam Schulman:
Right, legit. Then my daughter wrote down a list of teachers and I basically, I think you want me to ask her all this. So I just handed the survey over to Lisa. I said, just check off this thing that my daughter wants me to ask you. You just fill it out. So she was a good sport about it. She just told her which teacher she had and all the things.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
That’s awesome.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. So I think Lisa was a flutist, is that right?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
That’s right, yeah. Plays the flute.
Miriam Schulman:
They were comparing notes about who they knew. It was cute.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
That’s awesome. It’s a very small musical world in the end.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, I know. Okay. So let’s talk about your musical. So where are you at with it now? I know you said you were working on it before the call, so I know it’s not done.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Not done.
Miriam Schulman:
Not done. So tell us about it.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
It’s a historical topic. It’s based on a resistance movement in Nazi Germany called the white Rose, which I learned about this when I was in college. It was a group of German students and a professor who wrote a series of leaflets protesting Hitler, and in the end they were all executed. Does not have a happy ending. What really stuck with me about this story is that they all had such a close connection to music, to literature, to philosophy, to the arts, which in many ways we’re not super present in society at that time because a lot of that had been banned. And the policy was to not let people experience things that could open their minds.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
That was what informed their protests in a big way. So that really affirmed for me just how important the arts are, which has been a question that I struggled with early on in my career of, am I doing something that’s meaningful or is this just frivolous? So that’s what the musical is about. And my goal for 2019 was to write a first draft, which I did but it’s so big.
Miriam Schulman:
Good for you. That’s so awesome.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Yeah, it was amazing. So I did a workshop in September, which was so cool to hear a reading of all the songs that I wrote. Now I’m working on draft two or trying to have a more polished version.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s beautiful. And then you’re going to go… What’s the next step to try to get funding and The Fringe Festival or what’s the next step, what does it look like?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
We’ll see, I’d love to do another reading of it. I’m hoping, either in the summer or the fall and then I’ll get more advice from people I know get their input on the show and see where I should take it, whether it’s pitching to theaters or producers or university theater programs. So we’ll see. But the dream is to see it staged and here at brought to life because that’s the thing that we can’t do on our own as writers, especially of a musical.
Miriam Schulman:
I love it. I can’t wait. Do you have a working title for it?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
I’m going between titles at the moment.
Miriam Schulman:
White Rose?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Maybe but maybe not.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, and I’m sure the the producers might have something to say about that or don’t they do it? How much creative input do producers have when the-
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
I think it depends on the producer but they, from what I hear, they do care about the title because that has marketing implications.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s right. Yeah.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
I’m flexible on the title in case any producers are listening.
Miriam Schulman:
You never know. All the New York patrons who listen to this show. That’s true. Not just New Yorkers.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Exactly right.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s my New Yorker perspective of the world. I think it all happens here. Okay. All right Jennifer, so we are going to share a few things to wrap this up. So you have, it’s a free Facebook group, is that right?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
Called the Millionaire Musician. Tell us about that.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Yeah. So I started this group to create a place to talk more openly about money among musicians, just because I’ve found that it’s such a taboo subject that makes people so uncomfortable. And my idea with the group and calling it that is, I’m not saying every musician should be a millionaire or that needs to be the goal, but I want to take a stand for musicians owning what they want and whatever amount of money that they want, no matter how big it is. For me, a lot of it was this idea of if as a musician, if I knew that the impact I was having was so enormous that I would only be fitting to be compensated $1 million, what would that look like?
Miriam Schulman:
Interesting.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
So I really want to advocate for musicians to expand their vision of impact and what they’re doing and allow that to correlate to their compensation. So that’s what we talk about there.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So Thalia and friends join her Facebook group, not just her friends. I’m assuming Thalia are sharing this with your professors. Okay, just saying, all right. So also if you want to work with Jennifer, jenniferrosenfeld.com they can find out more about all the different ways they can work with you there. Is that right?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Mm-hmm (affirmative) yes.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, perfect. So we’re going to put the links to both the Facebook group and her website in the show notes, which you’ll be able to find at schulmanart.com/83. All right, Jen, can I call you Jen, by the way? I just found out that my sister in law, who I’ve been calling Jen for years prefers Jennifer. I was like, well it’s a little late to tell me that.
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
Yes, you may call me Jen.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. All right, Jen, do you have any last words for my listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Jennifer Rosenfeld:
I so admire what you do Miriam and what you stand for. And for your listeners, anyone who is engaged with the arts, whether it’s as a lover of the arts or a participant, a maker, whether it’s music or painting or any visual art. I just hope you know that this is so important. This is what we are meant to do as humans. Art is the evidence that we were here and the way that we process what is happening around us. I think it’s great when artists want to make money doing what they’re doing and I also think that just making art is a core part of what we do as humans. I love the work that you’re doing, Miriam, and I love what you stand for in this podcast.
Miriam Schulman:
Thank you. You said that so beautifully. I don’t want to say anything else now, so I just want to thank you for being with me here today. I so appreciate your time and thank you listeners for being with me here as well. I will see you the same time, same place next week. Make it a great one. Bye.
Announcer:
Thank you for listening to The Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart. On Instagram at schulmanart and of course on schulmanart.com.
Miriam Schulman:
If you liked this episode then you have to check out the artists incubator. It’s my small group program for emerging artists who want make more money from their art. The program is by application only. To apply, go to schulmanart.com/biz. That’s biz as in B-I-Z. If you qualify for a free strategy session, you’ll get my eyes on your art business absolutely free, and we’ll discuss the steps you need to take to make 2020 your best year ever.
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