THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Miriam Schulman:
Well hello. This is your host, artist Miriam Schulman. And you’re listening to episode number 84 of The Inspiration Place podcast. I am so thrilled that you’re here. Today we’re talking all about getting press for your art. So in this episode you’ll discover how to think like an editor, how to use back issues of magazine for new pitch ideas as well as the power of the humble postcard. But before we get there, let’s chat about something that’s on everyone’s mind. Let’s say hello to the elephant in the room.
The world feels pretty intense right now. You might be wondering if building your art business is even an option right now. And you might have questions. One question I’m getting asked more than ever is how to teach online classes. Your questions are totally valid and may feel confusing. We’re here to find answers. But I’m here to change all that. Because no one should be expected to figure out this new terrain alone. That’s why, as an extra special bonus to my upcoming, live, virtual profit planning workshop, I’m creating a step by step guide to jump starting an online art class.
This guide takes all the guesswork out of creating a live streaming class quickly. I’m answering all the questions you didn’t even know that you had. What kind of equipment you need, how to take payments, how much you should charge and how to get people to join, plus a whole lot more.
I’ve personally used online art classes to help build my multiple, six figure art business. And I’m encouraging my clients to get started in the easiest ways possible. There’s no need to give up your teaching income during this time. The world needs art and the world needs art classes more than ever before. And there’s never been a better time to learn the ins and outs of teaching online. I want to help you move forward and not let fear stop you, my friend. Get the knowledge, support and accountability you need as we navigate these changing times together.
Here’s the thing, I whole heartedly believe that now, more than ever before, online art classes are on track to grow beyond what we’ve ever imagined. Where else are people going to turn to but online to keep their everyday lives moving forward. Especially for parents who want to continue arts education for their children. While I understand that the future is unknown, I don’t want you to use this as a reason to press pause. This is a call to persevere and show up like never before.
I want you to have the knowledge, education and skills to not just sustain your art business but to emerge after all of this is behind us stronger than ever. Please join me on April 24th for the live virtual workshop. To sign up and get more information go to schulmanart.com/workshop. By the way, if you’re listening to this episode, after the workshop is over, you can access the workshop if you join the artist incubator community. Because this workshop will come as a bonus for both the self study and my full members. I’m more committed than ever to help you sustain your art career and emerge stronger than ever before. Now back to the show.
Today’s guest has two decades of editorial experience contributing to publications, including Conde Nast Traveler, Country Living, Lucky, Better Homes & Gardens, House Beautiful and InStyle. Inspired by this rich career in publishing, she authored Recipe for Press – Pitch Your Story And Create A Buzz. And then took the road sharing her editorial insights with entrepreneurs. She also has a new version of the book out, which is the designer edition. Her newest book with the tools interior designers need to take advantage of for the press opportunities available to create a professionals. Please welcome to The Inspiration Place, Amy Flurry. Hey Amy, welcome to the show.
Amy Flurry:
Hey Miriam. So happy to be here.
Miriam Schulman:
My sister’s name is Amy because my mom was a huge Little Women fan.
Amy Flurry:
Oh yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Was your mom a Little Women fan too or no?
Amy Flurry:
No. Not at all. But I really feel better knowing that. Nobody names their kid Amy anymore or Lisa, really.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh Lisa.
Amy Flurry:
Or these 70s names.
Miriam Schulman:
Jennifer. Yeah.
Amy Flurry:
That’s a great one to think of. I might start using that line.
Miriam Schulman:
So with my maiden name, my initials actually spell MEG.
Amy Flurry:
Oh.
Miriam Schulman:
Because she was that much of a Little Women fan.
Amy Flurry:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Right?
Amy Flurry:
Yes. Wow. Wow, way to go, mom.
Miriam Schulman:
I know. Then she had a boy. So he wasn’t named Joe though.
Amy Flurry:
No?
Miriam Schulman:
No. Jeffrey. Close. Right?
Amy Flurry:
I like it, that’s sweet.
Miriam Schulman:
And then the other thing I wanted to discuss with you is that I was in … So you’re in Athens, Georgia, right?
Amy Flurry:
Yes, yes I am.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. I was there for [crosstalk 00:07:01].
Amy Flurry:
Sunny Athens. Were you really?
Miriam Schulman:
Yes, it was at the Graduate.
Amy Flurry:
Oh yeah, did you have a good time?
Miriam Schulman:
That’s a cool hotel.
Amy Flurry:
Did you stay in the [REM 00:07:08] room? Or did you have a room that was … Aren’t all the rooms specific to that area or a band?
Miriam Schulman:
They’re college rooms. So it’s [crosstalk 00:07:17]-
Amy Flurry:
Oh okay. Okay.
Miriam Schulman:
Kitsch-y décor, the room keys look like student IDs.
Amy Flurry:
Got it. Got it, okay.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And then we ate at a really good vegetarian restaurant which-
Amy Flurry:
The Grit?
Miriam Schulman:
That’s it!
Amy Flurry:
Yeah, I live right down the street. I could’ve [crosstalk 00:07:33].
Miriam Schulman:
How come we didn’t meet each other?
Amy Flurry:
I don’t know. Next time. Next time.
Miriam Schulman:
[crosstalk 00:07:37].
Amy Flurry:
It’s a cool place. I really, right love living here. Attracted to the core of the city. Week one of moving here and still love it very much for that reason. Very collaborative community.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. I hear a lot of the restaurants feature artists. Because I know I have one of my clients was getting her art into a restaurant there.
Amy Flurry:
Yeah, they do. Coffeehouses, everywhere features paintings and art.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, cool. And then you have actually some sort of art business that I want to …before we get into the meat and potatoes of today. So tell me what this paper cuts, what is this?
Amy Flurry:
Paper-Cut-Project.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes, what is that?
Amy Flurry:
I make paper wigs for luxury fashion houses.
Miriam Schulman:
Wait-
Amy Flurry:
Usually … And museums.
Miriam Schulman:
So that would be-
Amy Flurry:
Usually for window the displays, like Hermes or Valentino, they do … Or Kate Spade we did once, we did their windows. So I have a partner in this project. We started it at the same time that I wrote my book. And I really have use the tenets of my book to get it in front of the right people because that’s how they find two ladies who make handcrafted paper wigs. And that’s how they find us to commission the work. So yeah, we’re in year 10 of this. And we’ve done some pretty incredible installations. And just wrapped one up recently at a hotel.
Miriam Schulman:
That would be different than a hat. Now you know what I’m thinking of is like Alexander McQueen’s butterfly …
Amy Flurry:
Okay. Well you’re in the right vein. It’s definitely that wild. I’m just going to say, paper-cut-project.com is all of the pieces are there but basically when you have a mannequin and you’ve put couture or really gorgeous gowns on then, you’re still left with that glossy head that’s a little bit tricky because whatever you put on top of it looks a little goofy. And so we created, we started with a boutique in Atlanta, Jeffrey Boutique, who said, “If you’re going to do this for us,” because we had pitched them this idea, and they really focused us to, “We think you should do the wigs because this is always a problem for us. You put something on that glossy head, it looks silly but the rest of the mannequin looks amazing.
But they said, “If you’re going to do Atlanta windows, you’ll have to do our New York windows too.” And the minute he said it, I said, “You know what, somebody’s going to know what to do with this if we are prepared and also if we are prepared for people to find us.” Just like what we’re going to talk about today.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s a great story.
Amy Flurry:
The only way we’ve been found is by what I talk about in the book.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s fantastic. I want to make sure that we have pictures of some of these paper wigs in the show notes so people can look at them.
Amy Flurry:
Yeah, they’re pretty fantastical.
Miriam Schulman:
I imagine, yeah.
Amy Flurry:
Like your McQueen thinking, it’s in that same … yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
So people don’t actually wear them, just mannequins then?
Amy Flurry:
Some people have commissioned them for themselves, for a party, for a very extravagant party. They’re a pretty pricey luxury item but sometimes people get a wild hair and want the paper wig for themselves. And then they use it as sculpture in their house afterwards. Like put it on a pedestal, put acrylic around it, light on it.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Flurry:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So for those who are listening, the show notes are schulmanart.com/84. So we’re going to make sure that we have at least one picture of one of these fabulous designs, Amy, because I know I can’t wait to … I don’t know. You did show me one post card but yeah, I would love to look at more. Okay. So let’s dive into it today. Because we’re talking all about press but one thing that I want to make sure people understand is that you’re not a publicist, right?
Amy Flurry:
Right. Right. I wrote the book coming off of 20 years as an editor and a freelance writer. So people pitched me. But the difference between my editors in New York and me was that I was freelance. So I was actually in front of people not just in a cubicle. But I was in people’s boutiques, in their studios, in the shops. And so I noticed the same things over and over again as people pitched me, always came back with the same questions. So that perspective is the one that I wrote the book was like, I’ve been on the other end of your pitch, I know what works and I know what doesn’t and I know none of these editors are ever going to tell you straight up. So I just wrote a book that I thought simplified the process and let people in on our perspective. As a podcaster, you are also editor and owner of that. You’re pitched and the same things apply often.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, so one thing Amy and I were talking about before we officially hit the record button was Amy came very prepared for this episode. And unfortunately not all my guests come prepared. They don’t actually listen to the show. Amy can you talk a little bit about what it’s like as a magazine editor when you get a pitch from somebody, it’s screaming … Yeah, how can you tell?
Amy Flurry:
Yeah, you can tell in two seconds. If it’s a pitch often you will see the same copy in a different font and your name in a different font. So, you know-
Miriam Schulman:
They don’t even bother to make all the [crosstalk 00:12:55]-
Amy Flurry:
Didn’t even bother to make it the same. Or they will have forgotten to change the name of the magazine but everything else is customized except that they forgot to change that. They misspell your name. They pitch something that is wildly nothing that you would cover. Say somebody’s pitching a product and the whole magazine is more storytelling about people. It just reeks of, “Wow you didn’t bother to open the magazine and study it a little bit,” which is half of the homework, half of getting there with a great pitch is just understand what you’re pitching into because that is a formula. Your podcast has a formula. You have a point of view. And the job of somebody who wants to be on it and be considered, let’s say, just a solid consideration. Because it’s always your choice to say yes or no. Just like in true editorial.
But to get that really solid consideration, you want to understand the magazine. And they’re telling you what they’re looking for just by opening up and studying it. Study it. Study these things. Study an online magazine, study a blog, a podcast. Listen to the podcast before you rush out in all your pitch excitement to try to get placed in them.
Miriam Schulman:
I would like to say there’s probably a million podcasts by now, the last I checked there was, I don’t know, 600,000. But the name of the game is not to send out as many pitches as possible but to get on as many podcasts as possible. And that’s not going to happen if you don’t listen or read …
Amy Flurry:
You want to help that editor or podcaster out too by giving them something that you actually haven’t heard covered, that might be of interest and help to their readers.
Miriam Schulman:
I would like to … yeah, expand on that a little bit more. Because that’s absolutely true that what I find very frustrating was when somebody wants to be on the podcast and I don’t know how they would fit on the podcast, and they want me to do that work.
Amy Flurry:
Right.
Miriam Schulman:
Right? Make it easy for me to have you on by telling me what we can talk about.
Amy Flurry:
Exactly.
Miriam Schulman:
Because I’m looking for content. I’m looking for ideas. I have 52 slots a year to fill. Because I really am committed-
Amy Flurry:
See?
Miriam Schulman:
… every week.
Amy Flurry:
What you just said is so key because when I would get together with people, okay, so if I approached you and I said, “You’re fabulous, I love your art and I want to feature it on this page that every month I feature art and an artist.” Okay, well that’s easy and that feels really good. But when I would move on people would come back and say, “Oh he made me feel so good and easy and it was great for my business. But now I don’t know how to find another Amy, or how to pitch another Amy.” So this thing that we’re talking about is so critical because oftentimes they needed a third part, that editor did not want to hear directly for them, that it wasn’t cool for them to pitch, for starters. And that they would be bugging them.
Once I just wrote this book, people were like, “Oh all this makes a lot of sense. I just needed to get out of the way. I just needed to be demystified a little bit.” And one of the main points is that editors and writers are looking for new content all the time. Like you said, you’ve got 52 episodes. You’ve got to find good, solid guests. But you want to make it good. Same with these magazines, same with online publications, even more so. There are probably more places to be published at this point. It’s so much in the homework. Not in the actual pitching that sometimes people just get all, they feel, “Oh I pitched and now I’m just going to wait.” But it’s really the work is more in the homework to get it so close to where it’s easy for that person to say, “Yes.”
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And I don’t know how this works in the print world in terms of building the relationship. But for me, I feel there’s a lot of groundwork, in terms of people pitching me to be on my podcast, there’s a lot of groundwork that can be laid ahead of time. Like, “Yeah? You love my podcast so much how come you haven’t left a review yet?”
Amy Flurry:
Right? Right, right, right.
Miriam Schulman:
Right? So don’t tell me how much you love-
Amy Flurry:
Right, thank-
Miriam Schulman:
… if you haven’t bothered to do what 150 other people [crosstalk 00:16:52] have done.
Amy Flurry:
And that’s relatively new, what is meaningful also to editors like, “Are you following the magazine? Did you look at my instagram account?” It doesn’t mean you need to go hog wold and stalk or anything or over engage …
Miriam Schulman:
Does that help if I wanted to be featured in Forbes and I know there’s this writer, blah, blah, blah-
Amy Flurry:
It usually-
Miriam Schulman:
Does that help to engage with her?
Amy Flurry:
I would always follow them. I would always look for them. And I would look at their Instagram account. Because people are sharing so much about themselves. So they’re sharing, oftentimes, they’re sharing what they are look for. A lot of writers do that now. Over 50% of these publications are pulled together by freelancers. They’re going to … If you follow them, that’s the first time they’re going to see your name. They’re going to look at that at least. Maybe you engage mildly and then you pitch. It’s good habit. I don’t ever suggest do anything insincerely. More or less it’s just a lot of information that you can look at. And again, you can study, “Oh this freelancer really enjoys writing about this, this and this.”
Another thing to understand is that that freelancer’s probably not writing for just a magazine you’re pitching, they’re writing for five others. So getting to know where they’re coming from, personally, si really helpful in just angling your pitch and deepening or seeding a relationship. Just like what you’re talking about. Because you don’t want somebody to just write about you one time. You want them to take you with them if they like what you do over the course of their career. Because people really move around a lot. Like from magazine to magazine every few years. And say they go from Better Homes to Flower magazine, they’re going to backend what they already have written about and find a new angle for that new publication. It’s about relationships.
Miriam Schulman:
My husband used to tease me that the woman who wrote the local paper was my personal publicist. But the reason why is because not only did I understand what you’re talking about, like how to pitch an angle that wasn’t just about me, but I always would thank her. The relationship didn’t end with me being written about.
Amy Flurry:
Right.
Miriam Schulman:
You want to talk about that? Like how important that it?
Amy Flurry:
Yeah. Yeah. I do. Clearly. Because I keep writing books about the subject. But …
Miriam Schulman:
Right.
Amy Flurry:
It is a reciprocal thing. Isn’t it? It’s you’re not here, you’re not existing for me to come on your podcast. I’ve got books, I’ve got a media list, I’m in business. It’s a reciprocal thing. So it’s always, again, it’s just always important to not let that relationship just end after somebody’s done something for you. It also doesn’t mean that someone needs to lavish you with gifts or send a lot of free stuff that’s expensive. Because any editor would say, just with the little time that passed, if I wrote about somebody, I remember just some good thank you cards. And it wasn’t your generic thank you card. It wasn’t perfunctory. It was somebody saying, “Thank you so much. What you did for me got the attention of this person and this happened and I can’t tell you how much that’s meant to my business.”
Just a little example that still gives me chills, something like that. That’s meaningful. And that I remember and I that tells me that that person has gratitude for what I do. Because I as a writer would put a lot of time into trying to share their story well. You put a lot of time into good podcasts, the sound is clear, it’s well edited, all these things. That’s a lot of effort to share somebody else’s story or work. It’s little things like that. It’s just remembering, it’s again thinking about the long game not what you can do for me right now, because I need something.
Miriam Schulman:
Right, right.
Amy Flurry:
Because I got to sell this or do this. You can sense and feel that sense of urgency that is a little sharp.
Miriam Schulman:
What we were talking about prior to hitting the record button, I was approached by somebody who I am going to make sure that we don’t know who he or she is, but-
Amy Flurry:
Except for that person.
Miriam Schulman:
… who does … Right, except for that person. Who probably isn’t listening anyway because that person made it clear to me that that person did not listen-
Amy Flurry:
That they had never listened.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. But pretty much started the conversation with, “I have a new book.” I was like, “How is that going to help me?” It was like, it’s still … And it’s not that it has to be all about me either as the person in the position to give press. But it’s just not a nice way to begin the conversation.
Amy Flurry:
No, it’s not. And what you’re doing comes from a place of passion. Same with anybody putting together a publication. The one thing they have is the they get to say yes or no. They get to make the decision. They’ve got to filter through a lot of stuff. But they got to be really moved by what they’re putting in the pages. And yes, sometimes they’ve got that spot to fill and they’re making a decision fast, and I talk about that in the book, why do you see some of the same people get press? You feel like, “Oh they get all the press.” Because that’s who the editor goes to when they’re in that spot where they’ve got to fill that one thing. You’re going to respond quickly, you’ve got a pretty picture available.
Miriam Schulman:
High resolution, color images that all ready to go for them. And they know they can rely on my to turn it around.
Amy Flurry:
And they know you understand the drill too that by 5:00 o’clock they’ve got a spot to fill. And they know you’re going to call them back and they know you’re not going to boohoo if it doesn’t make it also because you know that person’s going to try. And you want to be one of those people that editors go to. You know, when you’ve got something good you want to be someone that they go to with a lot of confidence that’s ready to deliver.
Miriam Schulman:
Let’s talk a little bit about publicists. Because we’ve danced on that. We established you’re not a paid publicist. If somebody doesn’t want to do this work themselves, because they already they think, “Wow, that sounds like a lot of work, I rather just hire somebody.” What are we talking about to hire a publicist in this day and age?
Amy Flurry:
It depends a lot on the industry. I would say a norm for business to pay is 3,000 to 5,000 a month for that retainer. It could go up to 10,000. And then sometimes you have people who are good at this who are more boutique agencies or maybe they’re doing it by themselves and they might charge somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000 a months still. What you are paying for … I never wrote these books to be anti publicists. Because to work with a great publicist is a dream because they understand what we’re talking about. They’re trying to get you good material and they are being paid to do that.
Miriam Schulman:
Presumably they have these relationships with the press.
Amy Flurry:
They have … that’s correct. And they’ve worked on that. And that’s what you’re paying for. You’re also paying for them to deliver that fast because it’s not likely that you can keep that retainer up for the 12 to 36 months that you really need for somebody to come through for you big time. It takes that kind of time. So generally these are six month contracts and they’re being paid to push, push, push and make things happen quickly. And then you’re like, “Oh I can’t. I’m hemorrhaging money.” And then so that’s what you’re paying for. You’re paying for speed, sometimes it’s a really good thing to hire a publicist like when you have a book and you need that extra, you need an extension, you need the big hit right away before it’s considered old news. Or you have an event, or something like that.
But all I was saying with the book was like, if you cannot afford that, there is so much you can do on your own. You can even pitch on your own. It doesn’t matter who the pitch comes from as long as it is put in front of me in a way that gives me the space to consider in a way that it shows me you get it. That’s all I need. I’m looking for stuff all the time. That’s how I was as a writer. I mean, all the time. And they were just some things that people did consistently over and over and I knew they were well meaning. They were sending all the wrong signals. And I just thought, if somebody would just tell them, they would correct course. And that was true. People thought they were doing the right thing.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, one thing that you talk about in the book is not sending the huge packages.
Amy Flurry:
Especially not now. But I know that the editors in New York especially at that time, they just have small cubicles. So they will call in what they need. Sending some product, if it is manageable is always helpful for them to see. But the first thing you want to do is send them a pitch with just beautiful pictures. You want to get them to a place in that email that peaks their interest enough to ask more questions or call in a product. But you don’t have to send the product first.
Miriam Schulman:
Let’s just say, and I do have a fiber artist who creates beautiful fiber necklaces. It’s worth her while to send a sample to, let’s say, to try to get on Oprah’s wishlist or something like that?
Amy Flurry:
Totally up to them. I just say, make sure, when you’re sending your … something that took that much time, that you’ve done the work to recognize like, if you’re going to send 10 pitches but really five are awesome fits and you know it, then send five. Send those. But just understand that you can also pitch via email and that’s very productive. That’s how they want to receive the pitch anyway. You could followup and ask, would they like to receive a sample? But just because they receive a sample does not mean that’s going to turn them on more towards your work.
Miriam Schulman:
Is it easier to stand out now, now that people have moved more to digital? Is it easier to stand out with more physical pitches like with a post card.
Amy Flurry:
I devoted a whole chapter to the post card in the book, called The Humble Postcard. Because what it’s doing is it’s just, after you pitch, I’m still going to maintain that editors everywhere will still tell you they want to be pitched in an email. If you think they want to be pitched on social media, you’re wrong. But sometimes you might have a relationship and it gets to the point where you could DM them. But they’re still going to say, “Send that to me in an email. I need it in an email.” You know?
Miriam Schulman:
I know.
Amy Flurry:
That’s ultimately where they need it. And the photography is where I would invest before I started sending a lot of samples. It’s that pitch and how it is crafted. And it is so simple and so short. And it’s so beautified by that really good picture, that is the most effective. The post card is kind of like for the in between pitching. You want to let them know you’re still in business, you still exist. It’s a beautiful way you’re not bothering them. It just floats across their desk, you’re sharing a new collection, a new colorway, whatever it is that you’re sharing. But it’s just a way to remain top of mind.
What happens sometimes, something like that will come across and especially since nobody sends a lot of mail anymore, it was true then when I wrote it but even more so now. It comes across your desk and you’re pulling together a story, you’re like, “Oh that’s just what … ” it just happens to be either something that spawns a story idea or it just fits in with something that you happen to be pulling together.I don’t know why it works that way but it just does.
Miriam Schulman:
Let’s say you had an art or art product that was very topical. Like [inaudible 00:28:02]. How far ahead would somebody have to be sending that postcard to make it relevant for the publishing deadline for an article that’s coming out in October? Do you understand my question?
Amy Flurry:
Yeah. Yeah, I do. Also that timeline is in the book because it’s different for nationals, versus regional magazines versus blogs, versus blogs, versus newspaper. So that’s four different categories. But the nationals are usually looking for content five to six months in advance. Regionals are two to three months. And blogs or online publications can be two weeks to a month in advance. Some that are bigger are definitely pulling together, they’re a little more organized about their editorial calendars. So I’d always say, for anything like give it a month. But understand that national magazines, when you are on the beaches, they’re pulling together their Christmas issues. When you’re summer vacation, they’re doing Christmas.
So when you hear Christmas music it’s not necessarily the time to pitch Christmas unless you are pitching something online. Holiday gift guides are generally being pulled together, all those magazine articles that we read that are like, Best Gifts for under 25 or under 75, or Best Gifts for your Mother-in-Law or whatever. Those are being pulled together starting in June.
Miriam Schulman:
Got it.
Amy Flurry:
But the online components of those magazines are still looking for products like in October.
Miriam Schulman:
That gives a good sense. All right. And I know in the book you talk about editorial calendars and how to access that to your advantage. But something I want you to, if you can, go into a little more detail. How do you use back issues of magazines for new ideas?
Amy Flurry:
I think if you just put on the detective hat, this is what I used to do when I was pitching magazines. I was pitching them ideas also. So this is how I got to understand the art of the pitch, I would go to the library and go to the magazine section and look at six magazine issues of the same magazine. And if you line them up and you opened to a particular section, you would start to see that there’s a formula to that section. They’re looking for this kind of thing every month, they’re looking for three products to go alongside. They’re telling you what they’re looking like, everyone of those pages in each of those monthly issues look the same. So they’re telling you the kind of thing they’re looking for.
Here’s a good way to understand, when you look at something and you see somebody that’s like you being featured. And you’re like, “That could’ve been me,” well that’s a good sign because now the editor’s looking for another person exactly like that. So oftentimes people would be like, “Well … ” I would hear this a lot like, “Well they already featured her.” But from an editor’s point of view it’s like, “Well yes, we already featured her. Now we’re looking for the next her. This is the kind of person we like that our readers want to read about.” And that way you just start to see that there are formulas to how those pages are put together and they look the same month to month. And when you realize that, you start seeing like, “Can I plug, would my art, would my portrait, would my story fit into any one of these sections?”
Miriam Schulman:
That’s giving me a lot of good ideas, by the way.
Amy Flurry:
Yeah, they’re broken up into sections.
Miriam Schulman:
If somebody is listening is a painter, like I am, is your new book more helpful for that or is that really more for interior decorators who are looking to get featured? Could you tell us a little bit about your newest book?
Amy Flurry:
Well the new book is for interiors and the reason I wrote a completely different book this many years later, the same tenets still apply from that first book. It’s so foundational. You just have so much more opportunity now to get press. Podcast or are considered press, newsletters are considered press. It’s not just how to get in a magazine. But the same fundamentals apply. The second book I just started noticing more and more interior designers were coming to my talks. And I wondered why and I paid attention to that. And I started to realize that a lot of people want their business, they’re in the business of beauty, like artists, and so these interior designers almost have to have their own marketing arm of their interior design business which they’re not really prepared for.
But because they’re in the business of beauty, they have more opportunities to get published. Whether it’s a manufacture, a trade magazine, podcasts directed towards them. Everybody is wanting their attention. So I just saw a lot of opportunity and a lot of people just like, “Oh I’m supposed to be doing all these things and serving as an interior designer.” Those that decided they wanted to have, really focus that communication’s arm, this book was a way to tell them how to do that but in a simplified way, again. Because it can just be overwhelming, you know you’re supposed to be doing all of these social media channels, you’re supposed to be putting out your own newsletter.
So not only are you trying to get in people’s publications, you’re supposed to be also putting out your own publications by the form of a newsletter, you’re editor of all your social media channels, you might feel you need a blog or … It’s like we’re all [crosstalk 00:33:05]-
Miriam Schulman:
It’s so much easier in the old days, right?
Amy Flurry:
Yeah, this was very much coming on strong. So the interiors industry, where I do see art apply and is really interesting, similarly for my art project, in the printing, in the prints and licensing, you see a lot of these to the trade companies aligning with artists for edition prints. And then who’s buying those? Interior designers. Because there is a lot of opportunities in the interiors for textile designs, art on textiles. And everything is going so much more small and limited because in a time where you can get anything, interior designers want to get things nobody else can get, of course, custom. So I think it could also be very interesting for your readers.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s great. I have the book and I’ve had it actually for a while. Recipe For Press. Going through it it’s like, “Oh this is … ” I’m looking at all the stuff I underlined. I forgot about that. So in addition to Amy’s book, also you can purchase from her. The list of press outlets, because really cuts down the research tremendously. Could you tell my listeners a little bit more about that?
Amy Flurry:
It’s just another one of those things that in all the talks people would come up and their question would be, “So how do I find these editors?” That’s a little bit trickier and a little bit time consuming. The information is out there. But the digging can get hard if you don’t know how. So my team, every year, puts a massive effort into creating a media list that is affordable. Because they’re generally thousands of dollars. This is $150. And these are relevant editors for artists, creatives and entrepreneurs. Because sometimes when somebody says, “We’ve got a list,” they’re lists but they’re lists of who knows what they’re … Popular Mechanics and things like … Or things you just never heard of that they might be a name and an email but they’re not relevant.
So it has taken us, I think we’re in our eight year of putting this out, that every year we spend all of December redoing it for the coming year. And then we also send out a free update in June because that’s when editors begin to look for those holiday gift guide products. And there’s just so much movement from … So it will change wildly. So it’s just a labor of love but it’s something we use as well and a lot of publicists buy this list. They’re very grateful that they don’t have to look for them.
Miriam Schulman:
You bet.
Amy Flurry:
And they help us out too. Everybody’s really great about it. Because they understand like, “Wow this has a great value but so and so just moved,” and it’s just this constant rotation of names. So it’s hard to keep up with them. So that’s why my team puts a lot of time but the people who also buy it year after year, they help us out. And they tell us what they also want to see and we’ll go find that too.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And the last time I purchased it I remember it was very well organized and there was different pages in the spreadsheet. And it was organized. Each sheet was, whether it was a print or bloggers, are bloggers still relevant?
Amy Flurry:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s changed a little bit. I would say right now bloggers, if they’re blogging, that has turned into more a commercial advertising opportunity. I hear they’re coming back but what I saw when they initially … when blogging was a thing, then people needed to learn how to make it into a paying thing. And that’s when it became more about affiliate marketing and all of this stuff. So it wasn’t true editorial, all true editorial. But there are still some solid bloggers out there. We have some on our list.
I track probably more vigorously freelance writers because they’re the ones that are writing like for a number of outlets and you won’t find those names really on the generic lists. We also started putting a social media contact with each one. Because we’re trying to look for ways to verify a few times. And there’s a new note section that gives you some history like oh, if they were at this magazine and now they’re at this one. Or they are craft beer enthusiasts, we find that in our research. So we decide to put it in the notes because it’s super helpful.
Miriam Schulman:
oh that’s fantastic. Okay Amy. So we’re going to make sure that the link to both your books, a link to how they can get their hands on this press list which is on your … that’s on your website? Amyflurry.com?
Amy Flurry:
It’s on amyflurry.com, under the tab Recipe for Press. All of those things are [crosstalk 00:37:25].
Miriam Schulman:
All these things are together. Perfect. And if I remember correctly you can get it as a bundle. Is that right?
Amy Flurry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. Perfect. Okay, thanks. Hoping that we didn’t have to [crosstalk 00:37:34].
Amy Flurry:
Listen to you. Listen to you.
Miriam Schulman:
I do my homework too.
Amy Flurry:
It’s your research.
Miriam Schulman:
Because a good interviewer is going to also do the research.
Amy Flurry:
Correct. Correct.
Miriam Schulman:
Like I said earlier, I didn’t just get the book just for this podcast. It’s actually been on my shelf for quite some time. And it’s been really a handbook for me, very helpful. Quick shout out to one of my friends, Blenda Tyvoll. Her name’s been mentioned more than once on this show because she’s really good at finding me people like you. So yeah, throughout the year like she always is in the know.
Amy Flurry:
Sometimes that is the best form of pitching ever. And I’ve told people this before. Sometimes it’s not about you. Sometimes you know somebody is just a perfect fit for an editor. And you wish you were but you’re not. But you know that person is and you share that. Look, it just happened. You gave her a shout out and you do it all the time. And she-
Miriam Schulman:
All the time. But no, but she told me about you because we’re artists and she’s like, “This is a great book and a great resource and you should know about it.” But then also let’s shout out my friend Francisca. So I knew that you were coming to her event and I was like, “Well I really want to meet Amy Flurry. Can you set that up for me?” Relationships are huge and-
Amy Flurry:
They are.
Miriam Schulman:
… hugely important.
Amy Flurry:
They really are. Photography and relationships are the two big keywords.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. So Amy, do you have any last words for my listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Amy Flurry:
What I heard a lot and what I just encourage people to do is that, okay, if you spend one hour on this a week, that would be that many hours more than you spent on this last year. If that’s all you’ve got, just a consistency matters. It’s when people get all excited, do it and then give up that it doesn’t really work. But when you put energy towards this consistently, because this should be an arm of your business now, communications is directly linked to commerce and opportunity. So if you think you don’t have the time just carve out one hour a week. If that first hour is just studying a couple of magazines and that’s it and you took some notes, awesome. The second week you’re going to get a little closer to seeing what might be a good fit or who actually edits that page.
Just when you put that kind of energy, things happen. But you don’t have to have days to devote to this. It’s more just about the consistency of doing it and understanding it and staying on people’s radar. And your time will come.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s awesome. Well thank you so much for spending this time with me today.
Amy Flurry:
I have so enjoyed it. I really enjoy the podcast too.
Miriam Schulman:
Awesome. You can find Amy’s book, Recipe for Press, I think it’s at all the book places. But I’ll make sure it’s in the show notes, schulmanart.com/84.
Amy Flurry:
Those are two of my favorite numbers, I was very excited about that.
Miriam Schulman:
84, really? [crosstalk 00:40:16] because eight because it’s infinity, right?
Amy Flurry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, why four?
Amy Flurry:
I don’t know. It’s just four, eight, 24. It’s all the derivatives of these … No reason. But it’s just a good number for me and I’m glad to be number 84.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m nerdy that way too, I like numbers. Okay. So thanks everybody for listening. I will see you same time, same place next week. Make it a good one. Bye for now.
Thank you for listening to The Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at Facebook.com/Schulmanart. On Instagram @Schulmanart and of course on schulmanart.com.
If you liked this episode then you have to checkout the Artist Incubator. It’s my small group program for emerging artists who want sustainable income from their art. I’ve also recently added a self study version of the program to make it more affordable. When you join, you’ll get instant access to my no-fail-pitch-strategies for artists. Plus, you’ll also get the exact swipe copy I use to create pitches that have landed me free press over and over again. The Artist Incubator program is by application only. To apply go to schulmanart.com/biz. That’s B-I-Z. If you qualify for a free strategy session, you’ll get my eyes on your art business absolutely free. And we’ll discuss the steps you need to continue to thrive even in these turbulent times.
Subscribe & Review in iTunes
Are you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. I’m adding a bunch of bonus episodes to the mix and if you’re not subscribed there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on those. Click here to subscribe in iTunes!
Now if you’re feeling extra loving, I would be really grateful if you left me a review over on iTunes, too. Those reviews help other people find my podcast and they’re also fun for me to go in and read. Just click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Thank you!