THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Miriam Schulman:
Well, hello. This is your host, artist Miriam Schulman. And you’re listening to episode number 85 of The Inspiration Place Podcast. I am so thrilled that you’re here. Today, we’re talking all about Instagram but more importantly, how you can pivot your messaging to stay relevant and inspiring during these turbulent times.
So, in this episode, you’re going to discover really what’s working now in Instagram why it’s more important than ever to share your art and creativity and how you can make the most use out of the platform. But before we get there, let’s say hello to the elephant in the room. The world feels really intense right now and you might be wondering if building an art business is even an option.
But now more than ever, it’s time to take control of your destiny. And the truth is artists can thrive even in turbulent times. I want you to move forward and not let fear stop you. Get the knowledge, support and community that you need as we navigate these changing times together. While I understand that the future is unknown, I don’t want you to use this as a reason to press pause. This time is a call to persevere and show up like never before.
Get the knowledge, education and skills you need not just to sustain your art business, but to emerge after this is all behind us stronger than ever. No one should be expected to figure out this new terrain alone. Join me on April 24th for the Profit Planning Workshop. Just go to schulmanart.com/workshop, and now back to the show.
Everyday business owners are leveraging the hottest social media platform today, Instagram, to generate leads, book clients, make sales and strengthen their brand’s authority. And for artists, this can be an important source for getting new commissions and new followers of our art work. Today’s guest offers no fluff courses and workshops that cut through the noise when it comes to Instagram marketing so that you can get the most out of your social media efforts while freeing up your time to do the work that you love.
As an agency business owner since 2013, she has collectively grown Instagram accounts to over 250,000 followers. She’s brokered hundreds of deals between influencers and brands and has created more blogs and newsletters than she can count. She’s been featured for her Instagram expertise in publications such as Forbes, Entrepreneur, Brit + Co, Elite Daily, Teachable and Later.
Please welcome to The Inspiration Place, Elisa Darma. Hey, Elise, thank you for joining me today and welcome to the show.
Elise Darma:
Of course, this is such a pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Miriam Schulman:
Obviously, I invited you because artists are always looking to grow their Instagram following and get Instafamous, but we have to talk about what’s going on right now because I know a lot of my artists are really fearful about sharing their art whether it’s on Instagram, in their emails, anywhere else because they don’t want to appear as being insensitive.
Miriam Schulman:
So, I know you work with a lot of artists, what are you telling your clients to do right now?
Elise Darma:
It’s really hard on top of mind right now because the world has changed so quickly in the last four to six weeks. I’d say for North America and Europe as well. And everyone who’s running any kind of business is having to reassess.
Elise Darma:
So, today, one of my students who’s an artist selling paintings online, she wanted her Instagram profile reviewed. And as I was starting to go through and make suggestions, she then mentioned in the chat the biggest thing that was actually holding her back. And she told me, “I don’t feel like I should sell right now.” And so I stopped the account review and said, “We need to discuss that,” because her whole brand as an artist was bright, vibrant, abstract art basically.
Elise Darma:
And I even went on her website and she had a butterfly collection going on and then one of her images completely stopped my scroll. And I said, “I would love to have this in my living space right now. This would be a great reminder of beauty in a time of chaos, or a time of negative feelings.” And I asked her to think, “Can we flip the script a little bit? Instead of thinking about “selling”, let’s think about how your art actually brings value to someone’s life right now even if that value is as little as making them smile when they see the painting. Or you bring positive feelings to them when they see your artwork. Isn’t that a value right now? Isn’t that one of the greatest values you could offer the world when people are being maybe consumed with negative feelings?”
Miriam Schulman:
Especially the symbol of a butterfly because a butterfly is it’s all about how … This is what’s happening to a lot of us now who are sheltering. We’re basically cocooning just as butterflies do. A butterfly completely transforms after that period of cocooning to this absolutely beautiful thing. So especially her imagery, what a beautiful reminder of that, of this life … There is going to be life after this crisis. We don’t know when it’s going to end but we do know it’s going to end.
Elise Darma:
That’s why she’s the artist. And really seen the butterfly connection.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, she may not be aware of it herself. A lot of times, us artists, we are processing our emotions and our thoughts and our feelings visually and we’re not always aware ourselves of what we’re putting on the canvass. And if you ask her, “Is this what it means?” She may say, “No.” But it’s really all there.
So, that’s why I love studying art history. I love studying other artists because the metaphors that people consciously and unconsciously put into their artwork. Just like poetry, it’s like a great gift to be able to see it through another perspective what’s happening.
Elise Darma:
No, that makes a ton of sense.
Miriam Schulman:
What about asking for sales though? So, what do you tell your clients to say when they share their art because that’s where I know a lot of my clients get stuck on?
Elise Darma:
Yeah. When I looked at her profile, what I saw was her freezing in inaction. And a lot of us have maybe had that response because this is a whole new world that we’re entering. And we’re frozen. We don’t know what to say. We don’t know what to share.
So, what I suggested to her was continue to share your collection, especially our butterfly collection. Share an image of what one of your butterfly paintings in your feed each day perhaps if that fits your aesthetic. And then in your stories, take me behind the scenes. Show me what that piece of art looks like in your living room. Show it to me on video up close, maybe show me a demonstration of your technique. Make me get to know that piece of art behind the scenes through your Instagram stories.
And in all of that, don’t forget to invite your audience to take some sort of action. You don’t have to be pushy, but you’re just reminding them that this is all available in your online shop, or you’re reminding them that for your first purchase, you can use a 15% off code, which is something she was offering.
So, it’s just reminding people. It’s showing up and reminding them that here are the paths you can take to bring this piece of art into your world.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So, that brings me to a question that I would have for you as you wearing the expert hat and me being one of these said artists. Whenever I do any kind of language around coupon code, workshop, any of those language, I get a much lower reach in my Instagram feed because I am sure that Instagram’s algorithm has artificial intelligence and they know that these keywords basically signals to the algorithm, she’s trying to sell something without spending advertising dollars with us.
So, I’m always hesitant to like put in those kinds of buzz words that might lower my reach. What do you have to say about that?
Elise Darma:
I’ve heard people mentioned the same theory, I would say. It’s never been confirmed by Instagram, so none of us really know. I don’t think that Instagram would build that in, but again, I don’t work for Instagram. I think what it could be is the audience responding to something where they feel like they’re being promoted to.
So, that’s generally what I like to highlight to my core students is when you are sharing anything that’s a promotion, whether it’s a free resource or a paid resource or a flash sale, it’s quite typical to see a lower engagement because some people just don’t want to follow accounts that they feel they’re being promoted at, right?
I’d say that’s quite normal. It’s something that you can play around with especially as an artist when you feel like you don’t want to always be thinking about like, “Oh, what’s going to be that call to action?” Maybe if you can write something once that feels good to you, maybe it’s a gentler nudge.
And what I like to do is just save it in my notes or save it in my scheduling tool and treat it as a boiler plate, that’s what I call it. It’s an old press term. Maybe it’s still used. But it’s basically after I write a caption for my post, I just paste the same soft gentle CTA at the bottom. Maybe it’s to let them know my website URL or what free thing I’m offering right now, or maybe a Facebook group they can connect with me in, something like that.
It’s just a consistent CTA that’s always at the bottom of my post. That way, I don’t have to always think about it every time I write captions. That could be something your audience could try.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So you’re suggesting for your artist clients to send people … Do you say, “Click LinkedIn bio,” or do you want them to actually write out the name of their website in the caption?
Elise Darma:
What I’m finding working the best right now is inviting people to send you a direct message. For so long and myself, I’ve done this as well. We’ve treated Instagram as a place to gather followers and then send them elsewhere. But what Instagram’s really powerful in is in building connections with people.
And we’re seeing that through those private direct messages. So, yes, it is going to take you more time to respond to those messages and you can use tools like Facebook’s creator studio which allows you to connect your Instagram account to the backend. That way, you can actually respond to direct messages through your desktop, which personally I prefer. I don’t like typing on my phone.
But if you don’t know where to send people, if you don’t like the idea of sending them to your website, I would just invite them to send you a DM, send you a private message. Maybe give them a slight prompt of a question so they know what to send you. But I think that’s where you’re going to find more of your customers.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s a really good idea. Now, another question I have and a lot of these questions I have are very technical and then we’re going to move to more general ones.
Elise Darma:
Sure.
Miriam Schulman:
This is something that I’ve seen different experts give different advice and I was peeking at your feed to see how you do it. The controversy are hashtags in the first comment or the second comment.
Elise Darma:
Yes, this is the old question, old as in three years old. But Instagram, I believe, so they’d started to share more information with us in the last year, and they even have what’s called a creator’s account on Instagram. I think it’s just @creator or @creators.
They’re starting to bring us into the behind the scenes of how the app works. And I believe this is one of the questions that they answered and the answer is it doesn’t affect your post whether it’s in your caption or in your first comment.
Now, if you want to be on the safe side, put it in your caption so that those hashtags are associated with your posts from the minute you post. If you want them in the first comment, which kind of hides them or buries them a little bit, you need to make sure you’re posting those hashtags in the first comment within the first 30 seconds. You can’t do it 10 minutes after posting, so I’m told. You need to do it right away.
But the good news is if any of your audience uses a scheduling tool, so my favorite is Later, a desktop tool, what you can now do is actually when you’re scheduling your post with your caption, you can even schedule in your first comment which could be your hashtag. So, we do have all those options now.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. And just so my audience knows, I use Onlypult, which for a very long time actually lets you put all the hashtags in the second comment. I had moved them though from the second comment to the first comment just because of, like I said, I was told [inaudible 00:14:38] doesn’t like it.
But the thing is I also always share everything on my Instagram account to my Facebook page. It’s not so pretty to have all these hashtags on Facebook. So it’s not like native to the platform. So, it would be nice to move those hashtags back to the first comment again.
Elise Darma:
I think you can especially your scheduling tool allows you to build that in.
Miriam Schulman:
People spend a lot of time looking at hashtags. I was talking to an artist today where she says she spends a lot of time like looking at artists who have bigger followings than she does and what hashtags they’re using. And then the thing is you don’t even really know if their following is so large because of the hashtags or the things they’re doing off of Instagram to build their brand.
That’s the part that I have … And you still believe strongly in email marketing, right? Let’s talk about your philosophy in that, because I want to make sure that people understand.
Elise Darma:
Yeah, my email list is, outside of my products and offers, my number one asset for sure. I make sure that I consistently message my email list weekly and I do clean so that I don’t have cold subscribers. I take it very seriously. I guess I fell into it backwards. I grew my personal account back in 2016 as a portfolio piece to get clients to my agency.
And so, I ended up with, I think, 30,000 followers not like collecting emails, not selling anything that whole time and it wasn’t until then that I woke up and got smart and created a personal brand which then allowed me to start collecting emails.
So, I highly recommend to collect emails as you’re growing or to create those relationships in the direct messages as you’re growing. Don’t wait until you got a certain number of followers because as we know, Instagram can bug out on us one day. Maybe it could disappear but we still have those email lists and those email subscribers. So that is the key for sure.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m so glad you said that because so many artists I speak to don’t believe me when I say they should be emailing. And it’s really important that even though we’re talking about Instagram today that they don’t see this is the only strategy or like this is the golden ticket that’s going to lead to, like I said, Instafamous, because I know there’s that myth that they feel like, “If only I became Instafamous, I would have no trouble selling art.”
Well, really they’re not doing the basic things they need to be doing like emailing their list on a consistent basis and nurturing the collectors they already do have when they’re out looking for strangers on Instagram who don’t know about them yet.
Elise Darma:
Yeah. I mean, I truly believe you can make money from Instagram with less than a thousand followers. I always tell my students don’t get caught up in trying to be Instafamous. There are many people with hundreds of thousands of follower making zero dollars and majority of my case studies and my best students monetize five figures-ish around that area with under a thousand followers.
So, you can have that success even as an artist. And you mentioned the comparison trap especially on Instagram, that is dangerous. I’d really recommend for you to not allow yourself to go down that black hole, one, people can buy followers. People can buy likes. When you’re looking at a competitor, you just don’t know what’s genuine.
Maybe they hired an agency that they think is legit. That agency could be sending them likes. So, please don’t try to pay attention and compare yourself even if you’re looking at them for hashtag ideas. That’s fine. But I do recommend using a hashtag tool called Flick and that allows you if you’d like to connect your Instagram account to it. It will actually analyze which hashtags you’re most likely to trend in and appear in.
So, please don’t copy who you perceive to be competitors. Definitely do your own research and truth be told, I barely looked at my newsfeed. I just go in. I post. I post my stories. I check my DMs. That’s pretty much it, and I recommend for you to get focused with the time that you’re spending on Instagram especially if you’re getting sucked into the comparison trap.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. I’m really glad we’re having this conversation. The other thing I wanted to talk about is I feel like my Instagram account is bloated with people who really aren’t engaging with me. Is there a way to clean that up?
Elise Darma:
I’m looking at your account right now.
Miriam Schulman:
So, I was like really unhappy with the engagement I’m getting on my posts. I had this whole idea that I need to show more boob on Instagram and that has not been working out for me. I guess, over the age of 50, unless you’re Jennifer Lopez-
Elise Darma:
Yes, that’s a good strategy to follow.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Well, I mean, look at Jenna Kutcher. It’s all about like showing up in her undies and I mean, God bless her, but this whole idea of like, “Okay, she’s empowering women who are curvy,” and I figured, “Okay, I’ll just empower older women,” because we know people who show up sexy get more followers. Even that comedienne, Celeste Barber, I mean a lot of her account … I mean, she’s hilarious but a lot of her account is because she’s sharing this real … And people who don’t know Celeste Barber, she will share a really sexy young woman, and then kind of as her middle-aged overweight self, will do the same thing but it’s about sexiness.
Elise Darma:
Yeah. Or even just that shock value.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Elise Darma:
We’re not used to seeing a woman who doesn’t look like a super model in my feed. This is going to make me stop and look. And especially in the body industry and the self-love industry, we’re seeing that a lot. Sex does sell in any online format but you don’t need to show your self even if you don’t want to. Like sometimes, especially for artists, you want your art to speak for yourself.
Where it is worth showing up is in Instagram stories so that people can really get to know the artist behind the art. So, no, you don’t have to show skin for followers. But for you, you do have a lot of followers, and it looks to me like very few people are actually seeing your posts. And a good way to engage is looking at the views of your videos because Instagram is pretty good at getting those views. Videos typically get a higher engagement than image posts.
So, it looks like you have 700 views and I saw another one, 1,200 views on Why No One Wants Your Painted Rocks, which is that’s a great title. It is true, like a small percentage of your followers are seeing it and unfortunately, there used to be tools that you could connect your Instagram and just kind of clean your followers. But I don’t necessary trust or recommend tools that are outside of what are Instagram partners.
So, you can go through your followers, look at your list and manually remove, or I would just start experimenting with new types of content almost to see like, “Hey, do you have a heartbeat? Do you see this?” I feel like we could do a little experimenting with your account first before we’re blocking or removing people.
With that said, if you know there’s people following you who are fake or bought accounts, feel free to block and remove them. But if you have true genuine followers who are just not seeing your content, then I would suggest like we need to shake things up a little bit and try something different. Again, it doesn’t have to be your skin, but like movies or videos. Videos tend to do really well on Instagram.
I do think that that platform is moving away from your feed, the aesthetic of your feed, that look that was really popular in 2016 and it is moving towards content that keeps people in the app longer. That’s why when you sign in, right at the very top, you see the latest Instagram stories. The whole goal is Instagram wants people to stay in the app.
So, Instagram stories and video content are really great thing to experiment with especially as artists, we love to see your painting come to life. You’ve probably seen this before but the videos that are filmed with the camera right above the canvass and then it’s sped up to see the work. I’ve had some friends grow and go viral because they embrace that really early on, and now they have half a million followers.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, wow.
Elise Darma:
So, they just did it really early. I recommend especially to people who create physical things like artists. Show us. Show us behind the scenes. Show us the video. Try to make it as real for people as possible.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. That’s a really good advice. Yeah, I do find that my videos do better, and my art does better and whenever I show myself, I end up having to like archive those posts like a week later. It’s like, “Okay, I guess they don’t really want to look at me after all.”
Just to be clear, I’ve never purchased fake followers. However, I do know that I have bought followers because I’ll go and like the designer who did my eyeglasses. I want to go follow that designer. And then two minutes later, three eyeglass accounts are now following me. So I’m assuming that’s what you mean by bought accounts, right? It’s like the eyeglass people have something, I guess some sort of bot setup that once I’m following their competitor, they’re going to follow me with hopes that I follow them. Is that what you’re talking about?
Elise Darma:
Exactly. There are programs that automates based on the actions that you take. They can automate their likes, their comments, their DMs. And when I say you might have bought followers, not meaning that you could have bought them. The thing is fake followers, fake accounts can follow any one of us and we didn’t do anything wrong. They’re just targeting us.
Miriam Schulman:
And it’s not that they’re fake accounts, they’re real accounts but they’re not following us because they want our content.
Elise Darma:
It’s not a real person behind it.
Miriam Schulman:
Right.
Elise Darma:
It’s a system, it’s an automation, it’s a tool. I find right now for whatever reason if you post an Instagram story and use the question sticker which is an open ended sticker, you’ll see when you get automated responses from people.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, my gosh. That happens to me all the time. I don’t understand it. If my followers aren’t seeing my story, how are all these fake people finding my story?
Elise Darma:
I know. I don’t know what [crosstalk 00:24:52] of these tools. But I’ve gotten these fake messages before in my Instagram sticker. I’ll DM them because they could actually be a real person who’s just using automation behind their account. So, before blocking, I’ll DM them and be like, “Hey, did you really mean to say this to my question that’s completely unrelated to your answer?”
And if I don’t see an answer or if they don’t even look at my message, then I can generally guess that they’re fake. And I’ll just delete and move on. I really try to focus not on numbers, not on likes, not on comments even.
Where Instagram cares today is when you post something to your feed, our people saving it so there’s a little flag icon or our people sharing it so there is a paper airplane icon. Is this content that people are willing to share and DM to a friend or share to their stories? That is the type of content that’s winning. That’s what the algorithm cares the most about, are people saving or sharing this content?
And when the algorithm sees your content is taking off in that sense, it will show it to more of your followers. So, that’s really where I try to keep my focus.
Miriam Schulman:
So, that brings me to something I wanted to ask you because when I see content that I want to share to my stories, usually it’s like an inspirational quote or something funny or timely. But whenever, in my feed, if I share something that’s not artwork and not a video, nobody cares about it. So, in the same categories, like I said people don’t want to see my 50-year-old self acting all sexy. They also are not interested in my quotes. It seems like that always falls flat too.
Elise Darma:
Quotes are tricky and what I’m trying to teach my audience is create community-based content. Create content that your community would be proud to share in their stories because it makes them look smarter or better in general. That’s it. Remember when we’d all put bumper stickers on our cards like in the 90’s? It was like a cool thing to get a bumper sticker and drive around with it? That’s the metaphor that I want you to think about, is what quotes could you create as a quote card that your audience would be like, “Yes, that is me,” and then they’re sharing it to their stories because honestly, it makes them look good. It makes them look better.
Inspirational quotes have had their heyday and some accounts still do them really, really well. But look at your market, look at your audience. For me in my audience, I’ve experimented with this idea of creating content that has nothing to do with me. You won’t see my face on it. It just has my handle in a very faint font. It’s basically content where I’m saying what I believe my community is thinking and feeling. And when I put that out there as a quote card, when I see those shares and those saves go up in my insights which you get as a business account, that’s when I know that content is actually a hit.
So, I’m going to actually feature an example of this in the post eventually in my feed because there’s a recent post of mine where if you look at it, you’re like, “Oh, your likes are a little low on that one, Elise.” The likes are probably half of what they would normally be. But what I’m going to share publicly are the insights of that post because that post is actually a win for me because as much as it might have only 500 likes, it has 700 or 800 saves, and that’s what I care about.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s awesome, which brings me to a question, could you explain what the difference is between ad personal and business account and what do artists want to be using?
Elise Darma:
Yes, this is another age-old debate and I actually created a YouTube video of this, on my channel to answer this question.
Miriam Schulman:
Which, by the way, will link that in the show notes. If you can give that to me and my team, I’ll make sure that’s linked in the show notes. Episode number 85, so schulmanart.com/85, we will have a link to that YouTube video.
Elise Darma:
Perfect. So, there’s been a theory for many years that just like when we all had Facebook pages or maybe we didn’t but back when Facebook pages were new, you could grow fairly quickly, because Facebook was really pushing it into the feed. Then, Facebook reduced the reach because they wanted you to move to their ads platform and pay for eyeballs.
So, that same theory has applied to two Instagram accounts for years. The theory is start as a personal profile and stay personal. If you switch to business, they’re going to reduce your reach. For many years, I stayed a personal profile for as long as possible because I didn’t want Instagram to punish me. But I did switch to business profile, I think, about two years ago.
And honestly, I did not see a change in my reach and I even have run ads that whole time. Maybe I see a change then depending on my ads spend. Again, this is all theory, but what really happened was this time last year, Instagram revealed some information about how it works and it did come out and say that business profiles are not punished with organic reach, that’s a myth. So, whether you want to believe it or not, Instagram has said business profiles are not punished.
And I do believe that. I truly think it actually comes down to your content. Are you creating content that people care about to share and save, and are they resonating with it?
Miriam Schulman:
But there’s advantages to having a business account in terms of what the buttons are on the profile, right?
Elise Darma:
There are advantages. Instagram has incentivized us to switch to a business profile if we’re business probably to identify our account as a new business account. But what Instagram gives you with a business profile is insights. That’s where you get the analytics on your account. And so, if that’s really important for you to know who’s following you, what country they’re in, their age, the time that they’re in the app, then yes, switch to business so that you have those insights.
I typically recommend to my students, you generally don’t need that information. If it makes you feel better, just stay a personal profile for as long as you need to, as long as you can. Then if you need that information, switch to business. Or the second option is if your personal profile grows to 10,000 followers plus and now you want to use the swipe up feature in your stories, yes, switch to business account and then you’ll get that feature.
Miriam Schulman:
And so you don’t get swiped up in personal?
Elise Darma:
Last I heard, no. You have to be a business account to get swiped up.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, that’s very important. So, it’s okay if you only have a thousand followers but it’s really nice if you have 10,000 and you can swipe up, just saying.
Elise Darma:
It is.
Miriam Schulman:
All right. Let’s talk about Instagram stories in particular I also want to hear about ways that you’re helping business owners create kind of content.
Elise Darma:
I would say in the last two years, there’s really been a movement toward stories which, let’s be honest, this was a feature created by Snapchat years ago. Instagram came out with stories in, I want to say 2017, I can’t remember off the top my head. But since then, it has exploded Instagram’s user base and I bet time in app as well.
So, again, that’s why you see stories right at the top. There’s something very charming about seeing an artist at home and maybe getting the behind the scenes peek at their process or their studio and then knowing that that content is going to expire 24 hours after posting. I do think it’s helped us entrepreneurs and business people show up a little bit more knowing that this content wasn’t going to live on our feed forever and therefore, we’re actually connecting with our audience more because they’re starting to see us as a real person.
Miriam Schulman:
I totally agree with that because I, a few years ago, was all about the cohesiveness of the feed and it’s still kind of is. I mean you don’t want to share … For example, here’s something I started sharing a few years ago I’d never would have shared on social media professionally, are like pictures of me at my son’s wrestling matches. I feel like I still would never put that in the feed because it’s like that’s not part of my professional life.
But I’m okay with sharing that in the story because I know it’s going to disappear and it gives people kind of a voyeuristic look into my personal life. And you encourage artists, your clients, to do that?
Elise Darma:
I do to the level that you’re comfortable. I’m not saying you need to turn your life into a reality TV show. You could still create the themes that you’re comfortable sharing publicly and keep the rest of your life private. So for my life example, you don’t really see my boyfriend or my family. And some of my followers were shocked. They’re like, “Oh, I thought you were single because you travel a lot. How do you have a relationship too?” And they’re curious but that doesn’t mean I have to let them into that aspect of my life. My boyfriend doesn’t want that, so I respect that.
So, you do need to know where your boundary is. I don’t think you need to be showing your kids on Instagram if you’re not comfortable, like know what aspects of your life you want to show and then keep the rest private. But like you said, people are looking for those connection points. When someone sees you at your son’s wrestling match and they also have a wrestler in their family, they’re more likely to like you and maybe reach out to you and feel that connection to you because now you have that in common.
Miriam Schulman:
By the way, my kids have asked me to take down posts and my husband too. In fact, I was talking … I wouldn’t say bragging. My husband is really good about keeping our toiletry supply up to date. My son asked me to take that post down because he was worried about vigilantes breaking into our house for our toilet paper. Meanwhile, I did get some pushback from it because somebody says, “How dare you hoard toilet paper.” I said, “I didn’t say I was hoarding it. I mean I have like a regular supply.”
So, yeah, I did take that post down. You will not find very much on my Facebook personal page for that reason because my kids are really sensitive. My kids by the way they’re 20 and 22, but they always have been very sensitive about that. They don’t really think too fondly about other moms who overshare either.
Elise Darma:
Yeah. And you have to respect that too when it’s your family. At the end of the day, they’re who matter.
Miriam Schulman:
So, I feel like with Insta Story, I get to cheat a little because they don’t … My kids aren’t keeping up to date as much. They don’t know the 24-hour updates.
Elise Darma:
That’s good. And when in doubt, my boyfriend is like the biggest extrovert I’ve ever met in my life. We ended up at Fyre Festival if you saw that documentary.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, my gosh. You were there?
Elise Darma:
Yeah. We ended up spending the night. That was my 30th birthday celebration, yay!
Miriam Schulman:
I feel like with this COVID, it feels like Fyre Festival though extended.
Elise Darma:
Totally. I’ve seen so many jokes related to the Fyre Festival organizers running this COVID [crosstalk 00:35:56]. So, yeah, we ended up there and he’s the biggest life of the party I’ve ever met. So, at eight in the morning the next day, I’m miserable, ready to leave, and he’s dancing. He’s dancing as we’re trying to get out, and I filmed it and I put it on YouTube at that time and then Instagram. And it just blew up, like even on TikTok, it has half a million views. And that’s him naturally. But it doesn’t mean that he actually wants the attention I’ve earned, so I have to ask him before posting anything related to him if he’s okay with it.
Miriam Schulman:
TikTok? Do I really have to create another social media account because I am so glad I didn’t do Periscope.
Elise Darma:
Right.
Miriam Schulman:
Is this like the thing I need or the thing that I’m going to be glad I didn’t do?
Elise Darma:
My uninformed opinion is it’s not as fleeting as Periscope. I do think this is more of a maybe permanent thing. It’s an addition to the suite of social media platforms we currently have. It just fills a different need, and I would say TikTok is heavy on the entertainment. It’s heavy on less education. It’s more inspiration and entertainment, basically.
So, check it out. I mean ,open it up and see if you like the kind of content. Type in your keyword in the discover page. See what pops up. If you feel like, “Oh, yeah, this would be fun to create. I’ll try it.” Try it. If you feel like, “Ugh, another thing to babysit,” then it might not be the best thing for you. So, I personally go through waves of TikTok. It’s actually just blowing up right now because so many people are at home.
Miriam Schulman:
And how long has it actually been around because now I feel like I just found out about it and you make it sound like it’s been around a lot longer and I just found out about it?
Elise Darma:
It used to be Musical.ly. Did you hear about Musical.ly?
Miriam Schulman:
No.
Elise Darma:
So, Musical.ly was around a couple of years ago and it was mostly teens, I’m generalizing, lip-syncing to songs. And then Musical.ly got sold and then it became TikTok. And I would say only in the last year has TikTok become not just a platform for fun but like holy cow, I can post one video and get a million views and now I have followers. Like it’s just been that for the last year.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So, artists are basically posting video content on like their speed videos on TikTok?
Elise Darma:
Exactly.
Miriam Schulman:
So, I could repurpose all those videos. Okay, so let’s get into little technical question. Are they vertical format? Like is it my IGTV videos that I should be moving over to TikTok?
Elise Darma:
Exactly. It’s the IGTV size.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. And can you schedule this or I have to like everyday log in?
Elise Darma:
No scheduling for TikTok that I know of. It’s definitely an app that you’re going to be in the editing of TikTok. The editing of TikTok is not that intuitive either, so that’s another tutorial I posted on my YouTube channel. But it could also be really simple, like if you just pull in your sped up video onto your camera roll, you can post that and then in the editing feature, you can simply like lay a song over top of it and you can even see what songs are trending. Choose a trending song, choose one that fits the vibe of your video and post that. But you can keep it simple.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, so wait, now that brought up another question. So, when you say choose a song, I mean, I thought you can’t use copyright protected songs. This is just showing how little I know about TikTok. This is the point where my 20-year-olds makes fun of me, like how do you not know this?
Elise Darma:
And they’re probably pros at TikTok, I’m guessing.
Miriam Schulman:
No, but still it just reminds me of the other stuff that I know nothing about.
Elise Darma:
My mistake in TikTok was I actually filmed myself for my channel. Opening up the app for the first time, and I recorded what I did. And the very first thing I did was post a TikTok video. Looking back, that was probably a mistake. It’s still up there on my TikTok channel but what I actually recommend to people is when you join TikTok, don’t post anything. Just look at what’s being recommended to you and look at the type of content people are posting. If that inspires, then you can go ahead and create something and learn the editing tools. But you don’t need to post right away.
TikTok is its own culture. That’s why I say don’t post right away because what I posted is like not something that’s relevant at all, but I didn’t know any better. I was just experimenting. So, I would just say spend a week, look at it. See if you like that kind of content. And for artists who are embracing TikTok, I look at my YouTube video comments and some people are saying like, “Thanks so much for this. I made my first TikTok,” and now I’ve increased my sales to my vocal training business.
So, this is one example. She just started posting either vocal lessons or maybe it was just her singing and she actually increased her business as a result of TikTok.
Miriam Schulman:
It’s great. So, can you have links from the video? Because that’s also the limitation with Instagram. You can’t really link.
Elise Darma:
Instagram is a tried and true awesome marketing tool. TikTok, very much still for fun, so it’s not built to really drive people away or out of the platform. In fact, just recently, they allowed for you to put one clickable link in your bio.
Miriam Schulman:
And are you able … This is now turning into a TikTok thing. So, do I have to use my phone or can I use a desktop? Of all the things that are showing, my 50-year-old self are coming out right now like, “What’s that new thing called TikTok thing for?”
Elise Darma:
I’m with you. I’m a desktop user. I do not want to be on my phone, but I know you can upload videos to your desktop profile on TikTok. But you’re still going to basically create that video on your phone, chances are. You’re going to film it vertically. You’re going to edit it, so yes, you can upload.
Miriam Schulman:
Which by the way, I edit all my videos on my desktop. I just make it be the 9 x 16 composite.
Elise Darma:
Well, if you’re comfortable with editing videos on desktop and just exporting it out at the right size, then try it out. You can sign into your TikTok profile on your desktop and upload it from there.
Miriam Schulman:
But I would say I think my audiences are more comfortable just using their phone.
Elise Darma:
I’d say it’s easier. Most people don’t know how to edit.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, because I’ve been doing video editing for a while and my team helps me with it. For most of people listening, I think using your phone is just going to be the simplest way to go with this.
Elise Darma:
For sure. You don’t want your TikTok video to look produced or branded. You want it to look like a TikTok video. That’s the other thing. If you make it look too branded, it’s just going to look like a promotion. This is the platform where you don’t promote. It’s purely entertainment and maybe a little information too.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And so by the way, my 20-year-old … I’m like talking about my kids all the time. The 20-year-old who is apparently an expert in everything, so he’s always saying how he hates branded account. That’s why he likes Joe Rogan. It’s not a polished experience. He feels like it’s raw, it’s authentic, so in terms of accounts he follows, podcasting he follows.
And what’s important for my listeners to know is that don’t be intimidated to put stuff out there that feels raw because a lot of people relate to that more than they do these polished experiences that I always feel I have to put out.
Elise Darma:
Yeah, 100%. That’s an old reflex of mine that I also have to remind myself of like, “Hey, you’re not a broadcast journalist. You don’t have to go into broadcasting mode. You can actually talk normally and show up as a normal person even if you’re making mistakes.” So, yeah, I agree.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, so we’re about to wrap up. So before we do that, I want to make sure my guests know some of the ways they can work with you, Elise. I for one have purchased your Insta Story, and I believe that you have something more for artists now because the one that I invested in was really more for people who are helping other business owners. What do you have available now or do they have to get on a waitlist for it?
Elise Darma:
No. So, I think you remember Story Vaults. And at the time you joined, it was 400 business to business prompts and ideas for Instagram stories. Since then, we have added another 400 business-to-consumer prompts.
Miriam Schulman:
So, it’s the same … It’s in my account? I just have to go on and have [crosstalk 00:44:28] yay, [inaudible 00:44:28]! That was a really good investment.
Elise Darma:
Yeah. Well, I’m so glad you’re glad. I really want to take the weight off of people’s plates of like, “Ugh, what do I post today?” But it’s more than that. It’s not just posting true stories for the sake of it. I actually divide the prompts up into a season, so you choose which season of business you’re in. I divide them up by a season of visibility, engagement, lead generation and sales.
And I actually included a lesson on how to know what season you’re in. I would say most times in our business, we’re in a season of visibility. We’re looking for eyeballs. We’re looking for followers, so you can simply go to that category, look at all the Instagram story ideas, choose one. You can amend it to your niche and your audience and then there you go. There’s an idea for you.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And while we’re talking about your products you have, I just want to make sure everyone knows. I am not an affiliate for Elise. How much is it?
Elise Darma:
It’s $27.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, my gosh. I thought it was more because I probably bought like the add-on or something like your templates.
Elise Darma:
There’s a couple other options you can add on. But if you just want the 800 prompts and you get the B2B and B2C, it’s $27.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, just get it. Okay, that’s beautiful. So, we’re going to link that for them as well. One of the best tips I got out of your Instagram Story Vault was before doing the story, put your lipstick or your lip gloss on. So, it’s all about-
One of the best tip?
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, my gosh. Can I tell you how many times I show up for like an interview or a call and all I did was put on my stupid lipstick and people were like, “Oh, you got all dressed up for me.” I’m like, “I just put on my lipstick.”
Elise Darma:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, ladies, that’s what it’s about.
Elise Darma:
I literally did this before talking to you as well. I just put on a lip liner and some lip balm on top and that was it.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, plus really good lighting. Elise, I see you here you’re right in front of a window, right?
Elise Darma:
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:46:24] sunset time, so it’s just on my face right now.
Miriam Schulman:
Perfect. Okay, so do you have any what I like to call last words for our listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Elise Darma:
Yes, I do. And I’m thinking of the student of mine who I coached earlier today who’s an artist. And what I recommended to her was to really step into this idea that your art is of value to someone right now. If your art helps someone feel positive, feel happy, that is a value and it just starts with you to take the first baby step. It’s building that confidence to show up more and to share your art with the world.
So, if you’re feeling a little afraid, especially as we’ve talked about video and talking on camera, what I recommend is start with Instagram stories. It’s a 15-second clip, it will disappear in 24 hours. Introduce yourself to your followers in your stories. Start there, take those baby steps and it will all help you really show up more and share your art more with the world.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. People need art more than ever. And I’m still selling art even during this time because people want it. They’re home. They’re bored and shopping makes us feel good and art makes us feel good. All right, we’ll end right there. Elise, thank you so much for joining us today. This is super valuable.
Elise Darma:
Thank you so much for having me. If anyone of your audience wants to find me on Instagram, I’m @elisedarma. Feel free to send me a DM and we’ll connect there.
Miriam Schulman:
All right, perfect. All right, give Elise a tag if you like today’s episode. I’m sure she’ll appreciate that. Okay, everybody, we’ll see you same time, same place next week. Make it a great one. Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Inspiration Place Podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram at @schulmanart, and of course, on schulmanart.com.
Miriam Schulman:
If you liked this episode, then you have to check out The Artist Incubator. It’s my small group program for emerging artists who wants sustainable income from their art. When you join, you’ll get instant access to all my marketing strategies for artists, plus you get new ones every single month.
The Artist Incubator program is by application only. To apply, go to schulmanart.com/biz. That’s B-I-Z. If you qualify for a free strategy session, you’ll get my eyes on your art business absolutely free and we’ll discuss the steps you need to come out of 2020 stronger than ever.
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