THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Miriam Schulman:
Well hello, this is your host, artist Miriam Schulman, and you’re listening to episode number 86 of The Inspiration Place Podcast. I am so thrilled that you’re here. Today we’re talking all about moving forward as artists in this ever changing world. I know us artists tend to be very sensitive to our environment and the world feels really intense right now. In this episode you’re going to discover your role in this world as an artist, why perfectionism is a form of self punishment and why self doubt isn’t what you think it is. But before we get there, let’s say hello to the elephant in the room.
The world feels really intense right now and you might be wondering if building an art business is even an option right now or if your art matters. However, artists can thrive even in turbulent times. I want you to move forward and not let fear stop you friend. Get the knowledge, support and community that you need as we navigate these changing times together. While I understand that the future is unknown, I don’t want you to use this as a reason to press pause, this is a call to persevere and show up like never before. Get the knowledge, education, and skills you need, not just to sustain your art practice and your art business, but to emerge after this is all behind us stronger than ever. No one should be expected to figure out this new terrain alone. Please join me April 24th for a live virtual workshop, the profit planning workshop. You can find that at schulmanart.com/workshop. And now, back to the show.
Today’s guest is an intuitive life trainer and business development mentor who certifies emerging coaches into purposeful and prosperous coaching practices that thrive. Her specialty is helping her clients turn their soul’s mission into a movement so they can impact the millions they are called to serve. She’s the creator and host of the Everyday Intuitive Podcast, and her work has been featured in top publications like Spirituality & Health magazine, Mindbodygreen, Elephant journal and Best Self magazine. I feel like there’s a few magazines here I might want subscribe to. Heather holds a Master of Science in Psychology degree from the University of North Florida, and I’m pretty sure there was a specialty in art therapy, she could tell us about that. And she is a licensed heart math life coach and the mentor of certified hypnotherapist. Please welcome to The Inspiration Place, Heather Alice Shea. Hey Heather, welcome to the show.
Heather Alice Shea:
Hey Miriam, thanks so much for having me, and thank you for reading my very complicated bio, I appreciate it.
Miriam Schulman:
Sometimes I just curse myself for not rehearsing that, I’m like, unless I’m stumbling at all, and my podcast-
Heather Alice Shea:
[crosstalk 00:03:38]-
Miriam Schulman:
Is also cursing me for not practicing it as well. Heather, I’m so grateful that you agreed to take this time to come and talk to me and my audience, because it’s been really challenging for me to be helpful without all the skills that you as a psychotherapist can bring to the table, so thank you. So we have a lot to talk about today, but before we get there, we do have to talk about your modeling career.
Heather Alice Shea:
Oh God, really?
Miriam Schulman:
Sit down just briefly. So Heather basically is, if you remember like, you were a model 20 years ago? That’d be around, right?
Heather Alice Shea:
Yeah, like 90s model, like in the heyday.
Miriam Schulman:
So if you would open, let’s say whatever catalog, Victoria Secrets catalog, and they would have the model who looks like Cindy Crawford but wasn’t Cindy Crawford, that was probably Heather, is that right?
Heather Alice Shea:
Yeah, I’m like the cheaper Cindy girl.
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly, right.
Heather Alice Shea:
Right.
Miriam Schulman:
So that’s what Heather looks like. So anyway, so how long were you a model?
Heather Alice Shea:
I did it for about a year and a half and-
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, that was it?
Heather Alice Shea:
Yeah. As I look back on that time, I realize how creative being a model is and how much now as an adult I really value the experience, but when I was younger, I just could not get into it. I was born and raised in the country, in the woods, like with four brothers, I just didn’t really identify in that world at all. And let’s be honest, there was a lot of things about that that were really unhealthy. And I remember thinking like, God, this cannot be my contribution to the world, I want to spend my time helping people feel really amazing about themselves. I just couldn’t really connect to what I see now in modeling, which is like, Oh, it’s such a cool form of creativity, like the pictures, the makeup, the hair song. It’s truly art, what they do on a photo set.
Miriam Schulman:
And I do feel they embrace a lot more diversity now.
Heather Alice Shea:
Absolutely.
Miriam Schulman:
Ethnic diversity, gender diversity-
Heather Alice Shea:
Body type diversity-
Miriam Schulman:
Body type, you’re seeing a lot more of that. I think Cindy Crawford was that time in the 90s, that was also breakthrough because I think she was like the first brown eye, brown hair model to break through. I remember when I was in college, my roommate had that coloring and she actually was African American and to her, that was like the first glimmer of somebody who almost kind of looked like her rather than the Christie-
Heather Alice Shea:
Brinkley.
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly. The Farrah Fawcett, all the American blonde look that was so popular up until that time.
Heather Alice Shea:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
You decided you wanted to help people in the world and that’s what we’re doing today, and we wanted to talk about how artists can do that right now as well, because I’m hearing a lot of negativity, for lack of a better word, more than normal. It’s like amplified from artists who I coach and artists whom I’m friends with, that they’re almost going, not all of them, thankfully, but some of them are going through an existential crisis like was what I’m doing matter, and moving through this like how can I sell my art and is it really important. So that’s why I thought it was really crucial to bring you in to help me help them navigate these feelings.
Heather Alice Shea:
Your role as an artist in the world, our society in the modern world does not really even understand the true importance and value of what the artist does for our culture, any culture, I don’t care if it’s East, West, it doesn’t matter. And a big reason why I think artists struggle in times like this, because whether they know it or not, when chaos hits, it has been, it is today, and it will always be the artist who is charged with helping us find our way forward as a collective species. It’s the artist who understands what it is to go within themselves and confront the madness, the confusion, the emotion, all the things, and find a way to fashion something beautiful, uplifting, inspiring, meaningful, not only for themselves but for other people.
Heather Alice Shea:
So what I would say is this, is your work important? I would say in this moment it is the only thing that matters, because it is the only thing with the power to help other people who, let’s face it, if you are an artist, it comes so easy to you, but what you don’t understand and what we forget as creative individuals, is that this vision you have, not everybody has it.
Miriam Schulman:
Let’s rewind a little bit. There’s two things you talked about creating beauty for sure, but the thing that I’m really glad you mentioned is the meaning making. I was listening to a podcast with Brene Brown and she had a grief specialist on and they were talking about the five stages of grief and his name was David Kessler. He has a new book and it’s really about that six stage, which is about making meaning out of grief. So he wrote his book pre-COVID to talk about how important that is for us to make meaning when we’re grieving. And it’s not a complete antidote for grief, but it’s a cushion. And what he was then sharing in this conversation was that what we’re experiencing right now is a collective grief.
Heather Alice Shea:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Miriam Schulman:
We have a collective grief, whether it’s a loss of job for my daughter, loss of being able to finish her senior year and say goodbye to her friends in college, people are experiencing losses at many different levels, and to be able to make meaning of what’s happening right now is the artist’s job.
Heather Alice Shea:
I love how you say that it is the artist’s job, it really, really is. When things go sideways like with COVID, and I love how you’re saying it can be for many reasons that we’re grieving, I think just, at its deepest level we’re grieving that we know the world will never be the same.
Miriam Schulman:
No, it’s kind of like we had pre-9/11 world and post-9/11, and years from now we’re going to have, remember what it was like when we used to, hopefully this is not going to happen, but remember what it was like when used to shake hands of people-
Heather Alice Shea:
Right, or [crosstalk 00:10:34]-
Miriam Schulman:
Could you imagine?
Heather Alice Shea:
A person without worrying, you know.
Miriam Schulman:
Right.
Heather Alice Shea:
Now, we’re concerned about this.
Miriam Schulman:
Like we don’t give high … Like remember when we used to give people high fives-
Heather Alice Shea:
[inaudible 00:10:44]
Miriam Schulman:
Right?
Heather Alice Shea:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
And now like to think about giving someone a high five where you like shiver, right? It’s like, Oh my gosh.
Heather Alice Shea:
Right? So to say that we can make meaning and I think meaning making one of the functions of that, like what happens when we ascribe new meaning? And this is where kind of psychotherapy and coaching and the art world, we’re all kind of sitting in the same soup as it were. That we all are tasked with this ability to say, “Okay, I am an artist, I know how to turn shit into sugar. This is what I do. I know how to do that.” And so to me the word being away shower. I really feel like artists are way showers. And what I mean by that is they’re people who can look at the situation we’re in and find the hopeful meaning. They’re able to look at it and say, “Okay wait a minute. It doesn’t have to be all no sunshine, all rain. There is sunshine here.” Okay let’s look at what those silver lining can be or the bright side or the new exciting thing that nobody can see yet. Because there will be positives from this.
Miriam Schulman:
I do agree with that, however, I also want to say that the artist doesn’t necessarily have to always be showing the silver lining because there’s definitely power in helping people process the grief. So if you think about some of my favorite both works of art and literature, Picasso, Square Nica, which is not about a silver lining, but it definitely helped process that war. Or the sun also rises, which is the title has the sun also rises sounds like silver lining, but it’s definitely the main part of that book was processing such a loss that the main character had to go through. And I don’t want to give that away for those who haven’t read the book or like need to read it for … But a lot of great art and literature is about helping us process what’s happening in the world.
Heather Alice Shea:
Yeah. Show the way through.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Heather Alice Shea:
So the process piece is the way through and that is looking at the shadow, really turning to face it. And five stages of grief that is all about saying, okay, no I will, I will face forthrightly what has happened without needing to dampen the tragedy or the pain. Right? I’ll just face it and see it for exactly what it is, knowing that I’m strong enough to handle it. Right? I got this, it’s going to hurt, but that’s okay. So to go through that process is really, really hard and a lot of people shy away from it. But I really think that the artist and all creative people are really capable of doing that in this really interesting, unique way.
Heather Alice Shea:
And I think it’s different for every person, but I also think that if we would just stop and give ourselves credit for that, say, “You know what? This sucks, but I know that I’ve got it.” I think we would find that we do know how to come through this in a way that is helpful and hopeful, not from the perspective of rose colored glasses, not from the perspective of like, “Oh, it wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be.” But from the perspective of, “Man, I’m so much stronger than I gave myself credit for.”
Miriam Schulman:
It’s not about saying this isn’t going to be so bad and try to be Pollyanna, but yeah, it could be really, really bad, but I can handle it.
Heather Alice Shea:
Right.
Miriam Schulman:
Like go to that dark place and be willing and able to feel the feels that it’s going to take to get through it.
Heather Alice Shea:
I remember that … It kills me to say that the late Koby Bryant, I remember reading a quote from him. Someone asked him, “Why are you so good at this at basketball? What are you doing that makes you so good?” And he said, “I’m not afraid to bring my pain with me on the court.”
Miriam Schulman:
Wow. That’s really powerful.
Heather Alice Shea:
“I bring all of me, I bring all of me on that court and that’s why I’m this good. Because I don’t say no to the shadow parts of myself.” My favorite author period is Viktor Frankl, a famous psychotherapist who survived the death camps in Auschwitz and he wrote a book Man’s Search For Meaning. And at the end of it he’d says, “I sat in that that death camp and I realized one thing. That the Nazis can never take from me the greatest of human freedoms, which is the choice to see the world, how I want to see it, and to be who I want to be in it. I can choose to give the man sitting next to me, my last crust of bread, the Nazis cannot take that from me.”
Miriam Schulman:
That’s so beautiful.
Heather Alice Shea:
It’s so beautiful. So, I say this to myself when I get down and my stuff starts kicking up. I say to myself, “If Viktor Frankl can come out of a Nazi death camp…” They killed his whole family, they killed his whole family. If he can come through that believing in the power of the human spirit and believing that there is a sunrise after we go through the horrible dark night, then I have no excuse. And not only that, but I think I’m mandated to try to emulate that. He’s away shower I think that’s so beautiful. So it’s about looking at this stuff soberly, but also believing in our strengths and knowing that we can do it. And look, it’s hard to do that when everybody around you is freaking out.
Miriam Schulman:
Totally.
Heather Alice Shea:
You almost feel like I told my husband this with the COVID break, I’m like, “I’m actually fine. I’m scared, I’m mad. I’m all the feelings. But within me is a firmness that I can stand on.” And I had this moment where I was like, “Is there something wrong with me that there’s nothing wrong with me right now?” And I’m like, “No, it’s actually okay to be okay.” And I think we need to hear that too. It’s okay to feel scared and it’s also okay to be okay. I’ve talked to a lot of my clients and they’re like, “Heather, I’m actually really excited. I think that we’re going to do something at the end of the day. Like we’ve got an opportunity here to try to do something to make something out of this. And maybe that will be great.”
Miriam Schulman:
For those of you who are feeling okay, it’s maybe it’s because it’s not your first rodeo. Like for me-
Heather Alice Shea:
Girl.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So that’s like, I didn’t want to like assume anything about you, but I would imagine this is not our right?
Heather Alice Shea:
I mean I’m an open book so I don’t, want to go deep.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Heather Alice Shea:
But I mean at the age of four I was already seeing way worse than this. I’ve suffered horrific sexual abuse at the age of four. Like I wasn’t even in kindergarten before I started my-
Miriam Schulman:
That explains a lot then because like, okay, and when I was five years old, my father passed away. It’s like when you’ve already gone through something really horrible, it makes you braver because okay, I got through this and they do have studies I think people who have the near miss in a war, hopefully a lot of people are going to come out on the other side of this a lot stronger and braver than they were before. Because they get through like, “Hey, you know what? I’m still okay.
Heather Alice Shea:
Yeah, and interesting that you mentioned that. When you look at treatments for anxiety, people who have social anxiety, phobias, horrible phobias, right? It’s counterintuitive. The treatment to cure anxiety or, well, we never really cure it, but to reduce anxiety, to return a person to a happy, healthy, where it’s not bothering them or harming them is to actually expose them to the thing they’re scared of. This is why with like PTSD, our service men and women coming home, they actually undergo therapy to be exposed back. Whether they do that with EMDR or hypnosis, some of the most successful treatments for that or when they put people back on planes and send them back to Afghanistan and Iraq to go face it. So yeah, it’s the willingness to look at it and say, “Okay, wait a minute, I am strong enough to handle this.” And so when you’re exposed to it, you learn that real time. “Wait a minute, I’m okay, I’ve got this.” And I personally believe that artists have a very, very deep capacity for that, for doing that. And for creating things in the world that help other people to do it.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. But let’s talk to our listeners right now who are stuck because they want to be perfect. Now all the conversation we just had was not a freeing conversation because they think in order for me to create an artwork, it has to be now meaningful and save the world. So-
Heather Alice Shea:
You are so right. [crosstalk 00:19:18]
Miriam Schulman:
Right?
Heather Alice Shea:
That is exactly. No it totally look, I’m like a recovering perfectionist.
Miriam Schulman:
So let’s talk about that because that was one of our promises. I got this quotable for you. “Perfectionism is a form of self punishment.” Can we unpack that?
Heather Alice Shea:
If your perfectionism could talk, here’s what I bet it would say, “You are not now and you will never be who and what you should be.” It’s a fundamental denial of the self. It’s a fundamental denial of who you were born as at the deepest level. It’s, “I can’t make a mistake, It has to be this way.” So it’s a form of punishment and I’ve never met a person who is a perfectionist that didn’t have some very deep seated denial program, but it’s not a denial of like an exterior thing or a belief. It’s a denial of the self because when we are creating, right? When we’re out there doing our thing, that’s an expression of who you are.
Heather Alice Shea:
Your art isn’t you, but it is an expression of your perspective, of your life experience, of maybe your unique voice, how you see things, it’s an expression of you. That’s what all great artists. Sistine Chapel is an expression of the experience Michelangelo was having as he did it, it’s all an expression. And so when you demand that it has to be perfect, it’s a way of rejecting yourself. And it’s also, if you really stop, this is counterintuitive, but this hit me when I was working through my perfectionism. It’s actually so rooted in ego, now that I’m on the other side of it, I’m like, Oh my God, to be a perfectionist is actually the most egotistical thing in the world because who in the world isn’t allowed to make a mistake? We’re all allowed to make a mistake.
Miriam Schulman:
See, the way I see perfectionism, it sounds so fancy, but really it’s just a fancy name for fear, don’t you think?
Heather Alice Shea:
100%, yes, fear of many things.
Miriam Schulman:
It’s fear of screwing up. That’s really, fear of failing and it’s like kind of goes back to what we just talked about, the people who are not perfectionist, who aren’t afraid of screwing up, they’re okay with feeling badly if something doesn’t work out. And the artists who I coach, who I see who succeed, have learned to do stuff even if it isn’t going to work out, whether we’re talking about creating art or selling it or marketing it, they are willing to get it wrong, be rejected, not make a masterpiece. They’re willing to feel the feelings that come along with not being perfect. And the people who say they’re perfectionist is because they’re not willing to feel the pain of things not coming out.
Heather Alice Shea:
Because it’s not a rejection of the piece of art, it’s a rejection of themselves.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Heather Alice Shea:
I think this also ties in to how we value ourselves and how we value the work we create.
Miriam Schulman:
So how’s that related to self doubt or is it?
Heather Alice Shea:
Oh my God, I think it’s all self rejection and that’s of course is the ultimate. It’s fear of rejection. From my perspective, I think fear of rejection, which is, it’s kind of almost a deeper form of failure because the ultimate failure is to be rejected. Now, this is tribally hardwired in our brain, our midbrain and our hind brain, like the neocortex wasn’t even around when we were forming this program. So the fear of rejection, the reason why we’re so scared of it is because when we were rejected, our ancestors being rejected out of the tribe was a fate worse than death. Back in the day when they wanted to really punish a person, they did not kill you, they banished you, they kicked you out, that was worse. And so now when we’re rejected, the reason why it’s so painful is because it’s almost like we’re experiencing that again, like on a psychological level, it’s as if that’s happening.
Heather Alice Shea:
So the first thing is to just show yourself compassion when that happens. There’s a reason why it hurts so bad and it’s a real valid reason, but we also have to look at it for what it is and say, look, if other people do not approve of my artwork, if they do not think that it’s worth a price I’ve put on it, that is not an indictment on my personal value. I had a client once, I charge way more than your average life coach and I told her my rate and she goes,” well, that’s way more than I thought that I would ever pay, but you’re worth it.” My response to her shocked me, I said,” I’m going to stop you right there, I am not worth $500 an hour, I am priceless, I will let you pay me 500.”
Miriam Schulman:
Wow, I love the way you put that.
Heather Alice Shea:
I will let you pay me. And it was like this energy rose in me and I’m like, I me, I’m priceless. Now, my services, what I create in the world, okay, we put a price tag on it, we try to come up with what we think is fair and what feels good, but I think that self doubt it comes from not feeling really secure in like, wait, I’m priceless, I’m valuable.
Miriam Schulman:
What I see happening energetically when somebody says, wow, that’s more than what I thought, and they’ll say, but Heather, you’re worth it, what they really mean is they are worth it.
Heather Alice Shea:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
And I want to remind my artists who are listening that a lot of the time when somebody is looking at your art and trying to decide if your art is “worth it,” that is really the conversation that they’re having in their head is not whether they think your art is worth it, they’re thinking whether they are worth investing in, whether their home is worth investing in, whether they want to spend money on themselves. So it’s not a value judgment on the artists, they are making a value judgment on themselves.
Heather Alice Shea:
That’s exactly what I told my client. I said, “This is, it’s an investment in you, not me, you’re worth it, I’m not, this has nothing to do with me, that’s your process.” Thank you for bringing that up because that is absolutely true. It’s the other person’s, they’re working through what it is for them to invest in and whatever their reasons are for considering buying the piece, right?
Miriam Schulman:
Right. And then like you said it, when I talk to artists who are thinking about joining my coaching program, I know that their internal dialogue is all about, it’s where they are on that ladder of self doubt. If they’re too low on that ladder of believing somebody can make a living as an artist, no matter what I say to them, I can’t convince them during that call to invest in themselves and invest in their art business. If they don’t believe A, that somebody could make a living as an artist, B, that they can make a living as artist. If they aren’t even at that point yet, no matter who it is that they’re talking to, they’re not going to be able to go forward in that conversation. Do you agree with that?
Heather Alice Shea:
Absolutely.
Miriam Schulman:
You see that with your clients too, right?
Heather Alice Shea:
Yeah, I do. And the clients that I work with, they are all fundamentally very creative people. They are introverts, they’re very sensitive, they’re fit, they kind of go through the world feeling everything, which is why they’re so creative and which is why they’re so interesting. And that’s why they have such a cool perspective. And I love, it’s such an honor to work with people like that because you’re always learning something and you’re always seeing the world in this different way. And it’s why I really do what I do because I think that, that truly it moving into the 21st century, the people who are going to be impacting and really moving the needle in a positive and beautiful way in the world are those who are super creative, who are willing to take action on that creativity, but also who are willing to do their own inner work.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. To make themselves vulnerable, not just in the creation of art. The students I have who say they just want to paint for fun and some of them get stuck with that perfectionism. They’re not even marketing it because they’re afraid of making themselves vulnerable on the canvas.
Heather Alice Shea:
It’s funny you mentioned that. I want to tell a quick story. You had mentioned in my bio that my emphasis in my master’s degree was in art and creativity. And I had the privilege of teaching a semester long, I did my practicum at the university of North Florida’s Counseling Center. And we did a whole art therapy semester in a closed group of some of the most brilliant kids I had ever worked with. And a part of that process was we would play music and just chill. We’d give them an assignment, they would grab all their materials and just create, they were free to just let it flow. Here’s what I learned in doing that, there’s no such thing as creating art without revealing parts of yourself.
Heather Alice Shea:
So as a clinician, you’re trained, you can actually look at an art piece. I mean that the research on this is fascinating, but it says your art will always express something about you and your perspective. So art is therapeutic whether we like it or not. I think it’s such a cool medium for a person to use to do that in her work. If you’re an artist, you’re loving it because you already have an intrinsic tool that you get to use to let it come up. Right? I think it’s a wonderful opportunity to work on yourself as you’re working on your art.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh yeah, and I think those who do choose to create a small business, whether it’s art or something else, that’s the best self development work you can do.
Heather Alice Shea:
Is that not the truth really?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. I actually had a client just the other day, she’s been working with me for a while and she told me, “I’m a different person than I was a year ago.” I loved hearing that and she’s one of my clients who’s actually thriving right now. Like right away. She said, “Okay, I did zoom with Miriam all these months. I can do that.” And she set up a zoom watercolor class. She didn’t worry about getting it perfect. The right video camera that this, that she just said, “Okay here it is, put it on Facebook. Here’s my PayPal link, sign up.” And [crosstalk 00:29:34] so proud of her.
Heather Alice Shea:
That’s great and that is so brave. And to give yourself the gift of being around and in community with a person like you, Miriam, the people that you’re teaching. I mean, look, I am a trained psychotherapist and I’m going to tell you that’s a form of therapy easy. Like that’s so much more fun than like sitting in a room and talking to somebody for, I mean, it really can help you process in a safe space, your stuff and not only that, but turn it into something beautiful and amazing.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Heather Alice Shea:
We’re living in a world where I think the luxury of being able to just kind of like not do this work, working on ourselves, kind of working on those emotional and mental skills that we need to navigate our modern and crazy world. I think we can officially say those days are over and we all are kind of responsible for finding a medium through which we can become the version of ourselves that we know that we can be. I love helping people do that. And Miriam, I know you do that and you’re with your work as well and it’s amazing.
Miriam Schulman:
Thank you for that. I just want to let people know that I am gifting my artists incubator students two sessions with Heather. She’s agreed to come into my program for the month of April and do two sessions with us and for those of you who are not part of the artist incubator, Heather has a podcast which is completely free. So if you enjoy the conversation that we had today, I strongly recommend that you go over and listen to her podcast, The Every Day Intuitive Podcast because she has a lot of conversations similar to the types that we had here today. So I know you’re going to love it. Heather, do you have any last words for my listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Heather Alice Shea:
I do. I have three things I always, these are kind of my core values I want to share. The first is you are more powerful than you can possibly imagine. The second is that your life has a deep meaning and purpose and the third, I truly believe this for every person listening to this right now, you are guided every single moment to live that purpose and to unlock that power. You really do have those three things, so please, if you take nothing from this, I want you to know that you can do this, that you can absolutely do it, and not only that, but help other people do it too.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s fantastic. Thank you so much for spending this time here with me today.
Heather Alice Shea:
Thank you.
Miriam Schulman:
We’ve included links to the books we mentioned. Links to find Heather on Instagram, her podcasts, all of those things in the show notes, which you can schulmanart.com/86. Okay. Guys, thanks so much for being with me here today. I’ll see you same time, same place next week. Make it a great one.
Thank you for listening to the Inspiration Place Podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram @shulmanart.
Miriam Schulman:
If you liked this episode, then you have to check out the Artist Incubator. It’s my small group coaching program for emerging artists who wants to sustainable income from their art and are craving the emotional support of a community of artists. The Artists Incubator Program is by application only. To apply go to schulman.com/biz. That’s B-I-Z. If you qualify for a free strategy session, you’ll get my eyes on your heart business absolutely free, and we’ll discuss the steps you need to take to come out of 2020 stronger than ever.
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