THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Miriam Schulman:
Well, hello, this is your host, artist Miriam Schulman, and you’re listening to episode number 96 of the Inspiration Place podcast. I am so honored that you’re here. Today, we’re talking all about people pleasing, perfectionism and procrastination. In this episode, you’ll discover how people pleasing is killing your dreams, why perfectionism is really just a fancy name for fear and why the way you think about time leads to procrastination. But before we get there, I wanted you to know, if you’re ready to make a steady, consistent income that you can be proud of by selling the art that you’re already proud of, but you’re feeling like you’re spinning your wheels, confused about what to do next and what you actually need to make it all work, then I can help with that. If you’re interested in applying for one of the openings inside the Artist Incubator, you can apply by going to schulmanart.com/biz. That’s B-I-Z.
And now back to the show. Today’s guest specializes in working with women who have ADHD tendencies. As a life coach, she educates to increase awareness and uncovers mental obstacles that may be causing overwhelm and stress. Certified through the life coach school, she uses a tool called the model, to help clients feel better by learning how to manage their minds. She’s driven by the desire to help neuro divergent minds access their brilliance. Please, welcome to the Inspiration Place, Shaun Roney. Hey there, Shaun. Welcome to the show.
Shaun Roney:
Hey there, thank you so much for having me.
Miriam Schulman:
Many people don’t know that I have recently added you as one of the main coaches for the Artist Incubator program. It’s something I was looking to do for a long time and had been looking for a long time for the right person to fill that role, and I’m so thrilled that you are part of this team. Maybe you should share so it’s not just me talking, maybe you should share a little bit about what you’re doing right now inside the Incubator.
Shaun Roney:
I consider myself an artist as well, right? As creatives, a piece that can be really helpful is to look at our thoughts about our artwork, our business, and manage our minds around all of it. And so what I’ve been doing with the members is really having them show up each week, bringing what they’re working on and then teasing out what is really slowing them down. Look, we always think it’s the specifics, we’re just not doing the technology right, or we just need to figure this one thing out and it never comes down to that. It always comes back to the way we’re thinking about things.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, I love your approach to it. I just want to explain a little bit of the genesis of how I came to look for you and then arrived at hiring you because I think it’s super interesting. Inside the Incubator program, I coach the artists on strategy, on how to sell their art. And of course, building their confidence is baked in throughout the program. But I really saw that they needed more than what I could offer with just me, and that’s why, instead of me pretending to also be a life coach, I thought it was super important to add somebody who could help them manage their minds.
So what Shaun does is we meet separately, I meet with my artists three times a month, Shaun also meets with them three to four times a month and her role is specifically to help them manage their minds and it also makes my job much easier when I go to coach them on the strategy because you’ve educated them on a language to use, which makes my job easier when I notice them falling into some of these very common thought patterns. Before we dive into that, I wanted you to just describe what you mean by neuro divergent.
Shaun Roney:
So the term neuro diversity is really used to capture all of the various types of brains that are out there, right? The way that various brains process information and the natural differences. So you’re probably familiar with the term, HSP, creatives, the analytical type, the impasse, the type A, those are personality types we’re talking about, right? So then there are terms like ADHD, autistic, bipolar, dyslexic, dysraphic, those are more diagnoses. And so when we’re talking about neuro divergent tendencies, we’re talking about a cluster of behaviors that you may see, or a tendency toward a behavior that indicates a brain is more neuro divergent than the typical brain, right? Society has defined what a typical brain looks like and so this is anything outside of that, is considered neuro divergent.
Miriam Schulman:
It acknowledges that somebody who thinks this way is not flawed, it’s just different. And I think they actually have studies that show that ADHD and even autism, are features that have evolved with us as, what do we call, the human species, because it’s important to have those types of neuro divergent ways of thinking.
Shaun Roney:
Absolutely. And I like to consider it as a scale. So on a scale of one to 10, let’s say at 10, you are maybe less symptomatic, less affected in your day to day experience, but you still experience what I would call tendencies, right? And then at a one, you’re maybe more effected, less functioning on the day to day, experiencing many more symptoms. So I think there’s a range and a scale when it comes to all of these diversity. So just as you said, it’s a more inclusive language, it’s not assuming that one brain type is better than another or the right brain type. Thinking about the group, as artists, consider all of the colors of paint we can work with, one color paint is not more normal than another color. They’re just all different and they all contribute and they all have their place. And so it’s very much the same way, our brains are just different.
Miriam Schulman:
The “weakness” is also our biggest strength. So if you are prone to distraction because you get distracted by your own ideas, that could be a problem in some areas of your life, but it’s also your greatest strength because those ideas are what allow you to thrive in your creativity.
Shaun Roney:
Absolutely. And I think what happens a lot in the Incubator is that there could be a tendency to have all or nothing thinking. So believing that you have to be all this way and it’s all negative, rather than looking at it as, there’s a positive side to it too. There’s a strength to it too, just as you said. So our brain may function this way and in some ways it may be a hindrance and in other ways it’s actually really helpful and part of what makes us creative.
Miriam Schulman:
Can you share a story as an example, without using anybody’s name?
Shaun Roney:
So on the one hand, it’s believing that you need to be that person, this came up around time recently, that person who is always super punctual, right on time, never late. And so this person was challenged with that, was always running five minutes behind habitually, couldn’t help it. In the case when they’re trying to meet up with people, that’s challenging because that’s not who they want to be. They don’t want to be the person always running late. On the flip side, when they’re spending time with someone or working on a piece of art that is really involved, they’re able to hyper-focus and lose track of that time and get lost in the project and it makes that piece exactly what it is.
I mean, there’s a term, I was going to bring it up later, but this is a perfect time to bring it up, called time blindness and it’s a lack of awareness around time, just a general lack of awareness around the passing of time. And it has to do with our executive functions, the part of our brain that prioritizes and experiences time. So that’s an example. On the one hand, you don’t want to do that all the time, because it can feel disrespectful to other people. You get that you want to try to be punctual and show up and it serves you, that ability to lose track of time, can serve you when you’re able to really get into the flow of a project and just go with it and let everything come out and not worry about the constraints of time.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. Now the way I remember you describing it, Shaun, and just so everyone knows, I only attended one or two of Shaun’s calls, but one time she was describing and it was brilliant, where she shared the type of mind that thinks that way, will think of time as now and not now. My son who would probably fit that description you just made, I had to explain to him, there is a third category of time and it’s called too late. So I know you like to think and now, and not now, but please remember there’s this too late category as well.
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. You’re like, that ship has sailed.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Right. You missed the deadline there.
Shaun Roney:
It’s so true. The typical, neuro-typical way of thinking of time is very linear, so past, present, future. And you can anticipate how far back in the past something happened and you can anticipate how much time you have until it comes up in the future. A neuro-typical brain can process time that way very easily, when you’re neuro diverse, when you have a neuro divergent brain, time is much more circular. And so it’s true, that feeling of now or not now, it can be not now, not now, not now, not now, not now, and then it’s like, now, it’s now. And many times, like you just said, ship has sailed, it’s already past, it’s too late.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. He has to get a visa application and I was like, “Well, do you know where you can get that photograph taken? And don’t let it be too late because mom’s not bailing you out.” Okay. So how does this way of thinking about time lead though, to procrastination? If we can be more specific about it.
Shaun Roney:
It’s important to remember time is a mental construct. So as humans, we’ve all agreed there’s 24 hours in a day and a thousand something minutes in a day, right? So we all have a general agreement around that. I think when there are executive function challenges involved, so the part of our brain that struggles with processing time, sometimes just increasing our awareness around it is helpful. So keeping a time journal and writing down how long you think something will take you and how long it actually takes you. And this is just for a 24 hour period.
And rather than counting down and giving yourself, say 10 minutes to do something, start the stopwatch when you actually start something and see how long it actually takes you to do something. How many times do us creatives think, “Oh, I can do that in five minutes.” And in reality, it’s 30 or an hour.
Miriam Schulman:
And the opposite happens to me too. I’ll put something off and put something off because I think it’s such a big deal and then it ends up only taking me 10 minutes. It’s like, why did I put that off, that was not a big deal at all.
Shaun Roney:
And you spend so much time anticipating how long it’s going to take. And so much time is just bleeding by as you’re spinning around how long it’ll take.
Miriam Schulman:
Do you think the Pomodoro technique is useful for people who think this way?
Shaun Roney:
I think for some people it is, it can be helpful. If you truly have a neuro divergent brain, I think what happens is you try a technique, like the Pomodoro technique, and then you hold onto the aspects of it that work for you and then you let go of the ones that don’t. That is my goal to help people become more decisive for themselves about what really is helpful and what’s not, and not just take a prescription approach, like, someone said this would be helpful, so it must be.
Miriam Schulman:
Why is it called the Pomodoro technique? I know you set a timer for 20 minutes, time to cook a tomato or an egg?
Shaun Roney:
Honestly, I don’t know that, I’ve wondered it myself and also never worried about it, but I just assumed it was named after somebody.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Or maybe it’s because it’s a kitchen timer that looks like a tomato. Is that a thing?
Shaun Roney:
Probably.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. Anyway, you set a timer for 25 minutes, giving yourself a set amount of time can be very useful, especially with the idea, I don’t have time to do this. Well, if you just say I’m going to spend 25 minutes working on this, it can be very helpful.
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. And the way I’ve seen that translate out specifically, is a lot of the time when we have a neuro divergent brain, that’s why I’m talking to the artists, the creatives, the hurdle can be in just getting started, like you described, imagining that it’s going to be so hard. And so if you just commit to, I’m going to set a timer and start, a lot of the time I like to frame it as, if after 10 minutes or 20 minutes, 10 minutes actually feels much more doable sometimes, if after 10 minutes, you’re not into it, give yourself permission to stop. In the beginning, it’s just training your brain to get over the hurdle of starting. It can be helpful in that way. Nine times out of 10, once you’ve started, you’re fine. You’re in the flow, you don’t need to stop, you realize it’ll be knocked out in no time.
Miriam Schulman:
I wanted to dive into people pleasing because that is something I don’t think I’ve ever addressed on this podcast and yet I see that come up so many times with my artist clients. So first of all, can you just define what people pleasing is?
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. It’s basically showing up in a way that you think you can heavily influence what someone else thinks about you. So it’s doing things oftentimes that you don’t want to do, for the sheer purpose of either being afraid of what someone might think of you, or if you don’t do something, fearing what someone might think of you. So you’re really basically taking action and living life from a place of worrying about others thoughts. And what I like to teach is honestly, other people’s opinions of you really are none of your business. It’s a nice space, but everyone’s allowed to have their own thoughts. And so spending the energy really trying to anticipate what someone else might think is impossible, first of all, because people bring their thoughts, their own perspective, their life experience, so a lot of the time you’re just going to be wrong.
The other thing with that is are you actually being authentically you, the person, let’s say you show up a certain way, the way you think someone wants you to and they like it. It doesn’t feel great anyways, if it’s not what you would do normally, who you would normally be. The person that they’re liking, isn’t really you, when you’re people pleasing.
Miriam Schulman:
It can lead to feeling resentful. The people pleasing that used to show up, that I kicked to the curb a long time ago because my kids are 20 and 22, but I just remember being asked to bake things for the class. And then finally I got smart, both my kids knew that when they had the sign up form, they had to pick napkins or plastic ware because I kept it in the house and it fit in their backpack. So I didn’t have to cook anything, I didn’t have to make a special trip to the store and I certainly didn’t have to drop anything off at the school. But I know that there’s people who will bake and hate it the whole time and that’s what people pleasing shows up as. But more specific, I want to give some specific examples, I’ve seen having these conversations, which you may not have seen inside the Incubator, but I speak to a lot of artists.
So for example, I spoke to one potential client recently who is in a gallery, very high end Boston gallery. She’s worried about, she actually said, what they will think if she sells in venues that are not other high end galleries because she has an MFA and that’s the circle she travels in. And meanwhile, it was really hurting her ability to generate more income from her art because she was trying to please this group of people.
Shaun Roney:
Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of the time, this elusive they, it’s just a made up group of in our mind, right? There’s not even a specific person, it’s just, they, very general, might have these thoughts about me doing this, what will they think? Exactly what you said, and so what it does is prevent you from taking action because you’re in a place of worrying about what someone else is going to think of you and it’s really hard to move anywhere positive from there.
Miriam Schulman:
I’ll give you another example and we can talk this out. Again, I’m not going to use the client’s name, but I have a client who had shared with me that she’s ready to move on from teaching children. And I thought she was very much at peace with that decision and then last week she said that she ran into one of the students she liked and maybe she should go back to teaching because she likes these students. I’m not sure if she’s completely teased out herself and I’m not going to assume what she’s thinking, but it seemed to ring a bit of notes of wanting to people please.
Shaun Roney:
For sure. So when you’re worried about making decisions from a place of what somebody else wants or what everyone else wants, you’re really not checking in with what it is you really want. There’s a few things going on. One of the things is you’re trying to manage someone else’s emotions with your actions, which never works.
Miriam Schulman:
So she wants to make that family happy, or she doesn’t want to disappoint the family.
Shaun Roney:
She doesn’t want to disappoint the family. And she thinks by doing this certain action, she is going to create the feeling of disappointment for them. Well, first of all, what I teach through the model is, that’s impossible, people feel disappointed because of how they choose to think about something. So it’s not actually even possible, I don’t believe, for an artist in this case or someone to make someone else feel a certain way.
Miriam Schulman:
Let’s define the model. There’s a lot of listeners who are not familiar with Brooke Castillo work and the model.
Shaun Roney:
So we’ll just go through really quickly, the five pieces of it. The first part of the model is circumstances. So there’s circumstances in the world, they are factual, as factual as possible, you want to put whatever is happening. And a lot of the time they are out of our control, circumstances, not always, but most of the time. The next part of the model is our thoughts. So we have thoughts about the circumstances that are happening in the world and thoughts are sentences in our minds, so it’s what we choose to think about, the facts, what’s happening. Our thoughts then generate a feeling in our body and we get the feelings down to a one word vibration that we experience in our body. So it can be joy, happy, disgusted, sad, frustrated, overwhelmed, all feelings and there’s hundreds and hundreds of them.
Feelings then drive us to either take action or they drive us to inaction, so they grind us to halt or they cause us to react, reaction.
The final part of the model is our results and our results are the consequences of our actions. What we do, what we don’t do, create our results. And so that is the framework that we coach through. It just makes everyday situations very clear, you’re able to see it objectively and decide on purpose, how you want to think about things.
Miriam Schulman:
Let’s talk about a specific example. The pandemic we can all agree, is the circumstance, but some artists were expressing thoughts that they can’t sell art during a pandemic.
Shaun Roney:
Yes. It’s a thought, for sure. So the thought is I can’t sell art during the pandemic. It’s a common thought it sounds like, that some artists are feeling. And the pandemic, you would want to get really factual about it, so you could put some stats about it, right? It’s been present in so many countries and you could put the actual number of countries, it’s been declared an official pandemic. You want to put as many facts about it as possible. And then the thought is, I can’t sell art during a pandemic. And when an artist is thinking that thought, it’s going to generate a feeling in them. So if we had to take a guess at the feeling, everyone just imagine, think the thought, I can’t sell art during a pandemic. What’s the feeling that’s created? It’s stress, it’s maybe anxiety, it’s maybe worry.
Miriam Schulman:
Because they believe that thought that their thinking is true. That’s what’s causing them to have those very anxious feelings because they are experiencing that thought as if it’s the fact. Is that right?
Shaun Roney:
Yes. And in addition to that, what often happens is they don’t even realize they’re thinking the thought. So they go straight from pandemic is happening, to fear. And they’re like, I am feeling anxiety, I’m feeling anxious because the pandemic is happening and they don’t notice the thought between the two. And the thought is, I can’t sell art during a pandemic. The thought is what’s creating the feeling of anxiety or the feeling of fear.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So now let’s fill in the rest of the model. So we have, the circumstance is we have COVID, we have a thought, I can’t sell art because of whatever, I can’t sell art at this time. And that feeling makes them stressed out. It’s the action comes next, right?
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. So if they’re feeling stressed, let’s say the feeling is stressed, the action may be watched the news compulsively. Scroll through social media feeds, visit the refrigerator 40 times a day.
Miriam Schulman:
Procrasti-snacking.
Shaun Roney:
Yes. Right. Nice term, procrasti-snacking.
Miriam Schulman:
I have a lot of procrasti-something, there’s procrasti-cooking, procrasti-snacking, procrasti-cleaning. That’s not my favorite the way that’s my least favorite. procrasti-learning is my personal favorite.
Shaun Roney:
Yes. All the other things, they redirect their creativity maybe and become a baker. And they think it’s just because they have this thought they can’t sell art, they’re feeling stressed, so they’re going to channel their creativity now into baking. Flour was out of grocery stores for a while around here, so many people started baking.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m not surprised.
Shaun Roney:
Sometimes it’s rechanneling, what are they not doing? What is the inaction? So they’re not maybe actively creating more pieces. They’re not photographing and loading the work they do have complete up to their website. They’re not promoting themselves. That’s inaction, so both go in that line. They’re not talking about their work in a way that they’re excited and proud to share it.
Miriam Schulman:
No, they’re scared to talk about it because they think it’s inappropriate. What result do they create for themselves?
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. So the result is always going to prove the thought to be true. That is how the model works. So if the thought is, I can’t sell art during a pandemic, the result is going to be, they don’t sell art during a pandemic. It’s totally a result that can happen, but there are other people, artists, living in a different model during the pandemic and that’s not the result they’re creating. They’re selling art like crazy.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. So let’s walk us through what that model looks like for the artists who don’t have the thought that they can’t sell art. So the circumstance is exactly the same.
Shaun Roney:
Exactly the same. One example might be there’s no better time to sell art because people are at home.
Miriam Schulman:
I am selling more art on all these different places, Etsy, Imagekind and my friends, Fine Art America, more than ever before, it’s crazy.
Shaun Roney:
What has your thought been during the pandemic?
Miriam Schulman:
The first month I freaked out, just like everybody else in March. My thought has been that people are home and they’re looking at their walls and people like to shop, it makes them feel good. That’s number two thought and number three thought, which I think actually is factual. I don’t know if this is a circumstance, you’ll let me know. So there’s so much less advertising going on right now because of there’s no travel, there’s no sports, that Etsy, Imagekind, all these venues are able to get much cheaper advertising for the artists and we’re benefiting from that.
Shaun Roney:
I bet you could find statistics around that and put the actual statistics in the circumstance line because that would be factual. Here’s the stats, I’ve pulled them and your thought about it is, no time like the present. They’re able to get better results for us artists now because there’s less advertising going on. That is a thought you could totally pull facts, stats and put it in the circumstance line.
Miriam Schulman:
Got it. My thought has been that art helps people, art is a healer, art is a connector and people need to see our art and we’re doing our collectors a disservice by not continuing to share our art during this time.
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. How does that thought make you feel? Any one of those thoughts that you shared, how does it make you feel?
Miriam Schulman:
Well, that makes me feel inspired to continue to create art and share my art. So that is the model that I live with my art. And I also have a very positive model for my art classes and our brains are wired to continue to look for evidence to prove our models true. So the model that I’ve been proving true is that there’s no better time also to take an art class and I actually think there is evidence, that they said that online art classes right now are having a moment on Udemy or whatever the site was, that was the most popular thing. But my art classes have been doing really well because people are using this time to focus on learning skills. Those are the ones who aren’t cooking or maybe they have time to cook and paint who knows.
Shaun Roney:
Who knows. Creativity.
Miriam Schulman:
They’re using painting to procrastinate on something else maybe.
Shaun Roney:
Could be. I love that inspiration was the feeling for you. It’s worth mentioning, especially since you have an artist community and artists that listen, inspiration is probably a feeling that is really productive and serves you really well because anytime you’re feeling inspired, your actions are going to be, create more work, share my work. So that might be just worth tucking away. Inspired might be a feeling that’s really helpful for this community. And so when you feel inspired, you do all these things and then the result you’re creating is you’ve sold more art during the pandemic, right?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. I also believe, and I’d love to hear your take on it, that we can actually, just like we can choose our thoughts or maybe this is how you’ll explain it, but I like to think of feelings as being in my closet that I can choose, deliberately choose a feeling, like if I want to feel confident, I can deliberately choose that for myself.
Shaun Roney:
You can do that. You can practice feeling on purpose. So if there’s a feeling that feels less familiar, but you think it might be helpful, you can actually remember back to a time when you experienced that feeling and just really remember what it felt like in your body, where you felt it, how it felt and practice feeling that feeling on purpose. It’s like strengthening a muscle, you can practice it on purpose. So it goes with what you just said, you can choose any feeling that feels like it would be helpful and then practice the skill of calling it in, thinking a thought when you need it.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So now let’s move over to the last thing we promised to talk about. At the beginning I said that perfectionism is a fancy name for fear. Let’s talk about that.
Shaun Roney:
First of all, I love the concept of shooting for B minus work, right? So when you’re talking about perfectionism, a lot of the time we hold ourselves to extremely high standards and we’re not going to put it out there until it’s just perfect, until it’s just right. And that may never come. That will cause us to continue to put something off, right? So at some point, just pulling the trigger, let me shoot for B minus work and get it out there and I can always then go back and adjust or tweak if necessary. So that’s one thing when it comes to perfectionism, the other piece, I think, is just the fear around if it’s not perfect, what’s the worst thing you can imagine happening if you put something out there and it’s less than perfect, whatever that is, what is it that someone imagines happening?
And most of the time people will say, well, people might not like my work. They might tell me they don’t like it. They might laugh at me. I might feel embarrassed. But when you really think about it, the worst thing that can happen is a feeling. And when we learn how to manage our emotions, it really becomes a nonissue. Yes, someone may laugh, we may feel embarrassed, but we’re going to feel embarrassed because what we’re thinking about someone laughing, right? They may laugh and we have the thought, oh my gosh, this must be awful and then we feel embarrassed. We feel embarrassed because we’re agreeing with them. But someone could laugh and we could also just be curious. We could have a thought that’s totally different, oh my gosh, clearly you’re not my person. That’s fine. Just a difference of opinion, it doesn’t have to mean anything about you personally.
Miriam Schulman:
I mean, the truth is, is that not everybody is going to like everything we do. And with art, even the greatest art in the world, think about your favorite artists, do you really like every single painting that your favorite artists ever painted? Probably not. And even if you do, the truth is you haven’t seen their own rejects. You only get to see what ends up in the museum, not the ones that they painted over, not the ones that they burned, not the ones that didn’t make it into a museum because it’s a lesser collection. So we can’t hold ourselves up to such a high standard. What I see Shaun, with many of my artists, is that they say they’re perfectionist, but really it is they’re just so afraid of failing. They don’t want to risk that failure, so they want to get it all perfect so they won’t fail. And that’s why I say it’s a fancy name for being afraid, a fancy name for being afraid of failure.
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. This came up a little bit on the last call and we were talking about just the fear of discomfort, fear of failure. It’s uncomfortable to fail publicly, it can be, it just doesn’t feel great, honestly. What if feeling that discomfort, they loved the statement, what if feeling the discomfort was the currency to their dream, to achieving what it was that they want. The only way to get there is by embracing discomfort and collecting fails, honestly. At one point I remember going through a period of time where it was like, fail forward, fail hard, fail fast, just be willing to fail. Really, it just comes down to knowing that you can be okay feeling uncomfortable.
Miriam Schulman:
So I recently had on Gretchen Rubin on the podcast and Amy Porterfield on the podcast and that was a big deal. But what people don’t know is that, that wasn’t the first time I asked them, I asked them more than once and I’m annoying, I just basically make people say no to me. It’s like, okay, you said no now, I’ll ask you in a few months. So what people see sometimes are the successes, but they don’t see always the fails that happened before the person reached their success. And that’s why it’s so easy to get into that comparison despair. You think everyone else has it all figured out and is getting there so fast and better than you. They look just as messy as you did, you just don’t see it. I’m not getting on the pod and say, “Guess who rejected me this week.”
Shaun Roney:
No, it’s so true. It’s so true. They don’t see your path to get to there. They just see the final product of, oh wow. And you’re like, “Yeah, I was willing to take a bunch of chances and be persistent.” And it sounds like, manage your mind around getting nos. What did you make a no mean? It sounds like you made it mean they just aren’t ready yet, but they will be.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And I just ask enough people that the nos become noise. Put yourself out there, put yourself out there, put yourself out there, put yourself out there. Yeah, that’s the way it’s supposed to happen. All right, we’ve covered so much today, Shaun. Thank you so much for being with me here today. I wanted to make sure people know that they can find you specifically at revealedpath.com. I know you have some very specific resources for our neuro divergent thinkers, they do not have to be artists. And of course, you can work with both of us inside the artist Incubator program. And like I said, at the top of the hour, as of June, 2020, we currently have two spots to become full members. We are looking for people who are ready to commit themselves to making a living from their art. To apply, go to schulmanart.com/biz. That’s B-I-Z. Alrighty, Shaun, do you have any last words for my listeners before we call this episode complete?
Shaun Roney:
If you see yourself in that neuro divergent brain category, rather than think something has gone terribly wrong and there’s this huge uphill battle, really just pay attention and notice that what you see as maybe a deficit or a struggle, has a flip side to the coin and can also be a strength. Stop that comparing and despair game and get more into the space of rather than black and white thinking, the middle is okay. It can serve you whether you’re on one side or the other.
Miriam Schulman:
Beautiful. Thank you so much for being with me here today and I’ll see you the same time, same place, next week. Have a great one.
Thank you for listening to the Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram @schulmanart, and of course on schulmanart.com.
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