THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Miriam Schulman:
Well hello, this is your host, artist, Miriam Schulman. And you’re listening to episode number 106 of the Inspiration Place podcast. I am so thrilled that you’re here. Today, we’re talking all about making your art business legal. So in this episode, you’ll discover what you need to do first to set up your business. What are the important legal documents you need on your eCommerce website, one of these is required by law. And what the heck is the difference between an LLC, sole proprietary, all that stuff? I don’t even think I said it right, and what you really need, and what you should do from day one to avoid issues with the name of your website and products. And finally, how being legal protects you, your artwork, and your business. Today’s guest is a lawyer who helps entrepreneurs protect their most valuable asset, their intellectual property.
She provides a legal guidance with copyright and trademark protection, contracts, and problem solving. Along with her team, she loves helping entrepreneurs grow their dream business through smart collaborations and deals. You can find her in Chattanooga, Tennessee, hanging out with her three kids and husband, monogramming and putting glitter on anything that stays still, or sipping a glass of champagne after bedtime. Today’s guest also hosts her own podcast, Legal Road Map, which teaches business owners how to protect their rights and stay out of hot water. Please welcome to the Inspiration Place, Autumn Boyd. Well, hey there, Autumn. Welcome to the show.
Autumn Boyd:
Hi, Miriam. Thank you so much for having me.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, the reason I invited you is because within one week I had a potential client, an existing artist incubator member, and my husband’s cousin’s daughter, who wanted to pick my brains, all basically asking me the same questions. I was like, okay, this is a sign that clearly this is something we should be talking about on the podcast. And I think it’s because it’s been so long since I first set up my business, this is not something I really think about anymore, so thank you so much for joining me today.
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah. I love talking about this stuff.
Miriam Schulman:
The question I get asked a lot is, “Do I need an LLC?” Is that the one you hear the most too? What’s the one that you hear?
Autumn Boyd:
I hear that one. I hear, “Do I need to trademark my brand or my name?” I hear, “What do I do about copycats?” [crosstalk 00:03:53] Typically, if I’m working with a new client, let’s say you call me up and you’re like, “I don’t know what I need,” I don’t usually start with an LLC or sole proprietorship or all those questions. I don’t think it’s the number one thing, but let’s start there since you’ve got questions about it.
Miriam Schulman:
And by the way, my answer to that, just so people know, it was years before I set up my LLC. I was sole proprietor from the beginning. I didn’t think it was a huge deal. I didn’t get why I needed an LLC. And then the story I shared with you that you know about, the reason I finally did set up an LLC is because my Instagram account got hacked. I’m trying to remember when this was, it was like a good five years ago, but I realized I didn’t have a piece of paper that identified Schulman Art, legally as my business. My tax documents had Miriam Schulman on it. They didn’t say Schulman Art, so I really didn’t have anything to go to Facebook or Instagram and say, “Yes, I own Schulman Art.” What would be some other reasons that people really would need an LLC? And then, Oh, you know what, let’s backtrack. We’re going to answer that question. But first I want you to define what sole proprietorship is, versus LLC, and how somebody knows what they need. And then we’ll go to the next thing.
Autumn Boyd:
Absolutely. So, as soon as you are selling a product or a service, you’re making money from it. And I should say, this is all state law. I am a Tennessee lawyer. So standard disclaimer, none of this is legal advice. Please take this as information.
Miriam Schulman:
By the way, I did put that in the show notes.
Autumn Boyd:
Perfect.
Miriam Schulman:
Already.
Autumn Boyd:
Which I stole from your website.
Miriam Schulman:
I was like, oh yeah, I better put that in there.
Autumn Boyd:
Awesome. I forget to say it half the time. All of this that we’re talking about, when we’re talking about a corporate entity, is a state law animal. So this is going to be a little different in every state, depending on where you live. And if you live in another country, just ignore all of this, because it’s totally different in other places. But in most States, as soon as you are selling any kind of product or service, you’re making money, you have a business. And usually the default kind of whether you do anything or not, is that you are a sole proprietor.
Miriam Schulman:
So if Mary Jo, and I have an Etsy shop for fun, and I’ve only sold one painting this year, I have a business, right?
Autumn Boyd:
Yep. Yep. Like it or not.
Miriam Schulman:
And if I’m just giving art away for free, that’s not a business, correct?
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
That makes sense. All right, just wanted to establish that.
Autumn Boyd:
Yes, no, I like it. So let’s say you’ve sold your first painting in Etsy, you have a business. And what your state typically will do is it’s a sole proprietorship. What that means is there’s no difference between you and your business, you’re kind of one and the same. So when we think about, do I need an LLC or a corporation? The advantage of that is, it keeps anything that goes wrong in the business. So let’s say somebody doesn’t like your painting and they want to send it back, or it falls off the wall and hurts somebody, or you have a studio, and someone comes in, and slips and falls and gets hurt, all these things that you could potentially get sued for, or someone could come after you make a claim, what an LLC or corporation does, and they do this the same way, so there’s no difference, is they, I like to say they build a fence around your business. So anything that goes wrong in the business, someone can come after whatever assets you have in the business.
If you have a business bank account, if you have any equipment, any real estate that’s owned by the business, they can get that, but they can’t get your personal bank account. They can’t get your personal car or your personal home.
If you’re a sole proprietor, you don’t get that fence. They can come after everything you’ve got. So usually when we think, do I need an LLC? Do I need a corporation? We’re talking about risk. Like, what’s the risk something’s going to go wrong? What is somebody going to come after you for? Now, there can be tax benefits to forming an LLC or corporation. I am not a tax lawyer. So I just say that to alert you that once you start making more than a couple hundred dollars, it’s time to sit down with a tax expert and run those numbers and see if there are benefits there. But it could also be some people just make, it makes them feel legit. It makes them feel like they’re a real business, if they have an entity, or like Miriam said, you wanted some proof that you really were a business, that it wasn’t just-
Miriam Schulman:
This thing I made up. This is my Instagram account for fun. But I do want to also say that one of the first things I did do, was create my own bank account. But it’s interesting what you said that doing that is not what protects my money, okay. That just is so that I knew what was… With my husband’s money, what was ours was mine, but what’s mine is mine or-
Autumn Boyd:
What’s ours is ours.
Miriam Schulman:
Is ours. What’s mine is mine. Okay. So I wanted to make sure what mine was mine.
Autumn Boyd:
So once you have a business, now you have to pay tax on the profits. So setting up a separate bank account is a good idea, even if you’re still a sole proprietor, because it kind of keeps everything separate. It makes figuring out what money came through the business and what money maybe came from somewhere else. But that’s bookkeeping. You can do that with one account. It’s just much simpler if you have it separate.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, it’s the lazy woman’s way of doing it.
Autumn Boyd:
That’s right.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. [crosstalk 00:08:55] Okay, so now we established the difference and why you would want an LLC. Who sets that up? Because I think you gave a very important tip to my students about that inside the artist incubator.
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah. So you’ve got a couple options. You can do it yourself. In most States it’s pretty simple. California and New York are a little bit trickier, but in most States it’s an online form that you fill out. It’s a filing fee of maybe anywhere from a hundred to a couple of hundred dollars, and then you’re off to the races. You can work with a lawyer. And I would say, if you have a partner, if you’ve got a more complicated business, definitely sitting down with a lawyer is a good idea. Some accountants will do it for you. So there’s no rule, lots of different people can do it for you. I would not recommend like a legal zoom, which is basically a glorified form, you’re paying them to walk you through it. But like in Tennessee, it’s super duper easy. It’s a very simple online form. I do it for my clients just because they don’t want to be bothered with it, but most people can do it on their own.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. That sounds great. How does being legal protect your artwork? Does that protect people from copy-writing or is there something else we have to do? Like somebody now copies me, so let’s use the Etsy example and somebody copies me on Etsy, so LLC doesn’t protect me against that, right?
Autumn Boyd:
Correct.
Miriam Schulman:
What do I need then?
Autumn Boyd:
So when we’re thinking about copying your work, creative works like art are protected by copyright in the United States. And the awesome thing is that we have automatic protection. So as soon as you paint it with a paint brush, as soon as you draw it digitally, it can’t just be an idea in your brain like, “Oh, I’m going to paint a picture of the Eiffel Tower with this background.” It has to actually be onto some sort of medium. But once it is, you have automatic copyright. So you own all the rights in it, or whoever creates it owns all the rights in it. The problem is under our laws, you can’t actually do anything with those rights until it’s registered with the copyright office. So that is, again, it’s a simple online form. It’s a $65 filing fee. It’s not super expensive or complicated, but that is required before you can file a lawsuit.
So most of us are never going to file a lawsuit. It’s incredibly expensive, but let’s say you want to file a take down notice with Etsy, or you want to send a cease and desist letter to that person, it makes it much stronger if you have that copyright registration, because they know if you’re going to sue them, that you actually could, like you could go to court the next day and file that lawsuit. If you don’t have that registration, it’s pretty clear, then you’d have to take all those steps. Wait, it can take six to nine months to get a copyright registration certificate. It’s not quick, unless you pay a lot of extra fees. So I do recommend that for your more popular work, if you’re worried about being ripped off.
Miriam Schulman:
How much did you say it costs per registration?
Autumn Boyd:
$65 at the copyright office.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So now there was a question-
Autumn Boyd:
[inaudible 00:11:46] if you bought a bunch of bunch of work.
Miriam Schulman:
So now, this was like I had heard when went to, I forget if it’s Certex, or Blueprint, or one of those big convention thingies and they were talking about, so for artists who create designs for a living, that could be really expensive to have to copyright every design. So what they were recommending was that you could submit a collection as a copyright. Is that true? Because I think it was a little bit confusing when we were talking about whether or not you could do that. Okay. She’s nodding her head vigorously.
Autumn Boyd:
It is possible. There are some really strict rules around it and I’m not going to get into the weeds of that. But I will just say, if you’re wanting to register a collection, call an attorney because it’s very easy to mess it up. They’re supposed to be either all unpublished, which means you haven’t released them at all, or all published and at the same time, so that’s a little bit tricky.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. Now I saved myself. I already forgot the number is, let’s say $50 per image, but now I’m set back a couple of hundred dollars to hire an attorney. Is that right?
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah. You’re still going to save over, paying that $65 filing fee for a hundred pieces [crosstalk 00:12:59].
Miriam Schulman:
That is true. Okay. Now the other thing that we want to talk about is insurance. So, that runs into the legal stuff too, right. We’re just going through it.
Autumn Boyd:
I know.
Miriam Schulman:
Go through all the things. So here’s something that a lot of people actually don’t ask me about. They don’t ask me, “Miriam, do I need insurance?” By the way, they do not. But however, I know that this has happened to me several times where I’ve gone to a show and they said you’re required to get fire insurance or booth fee insurance. And these are usually, for those of you who are not familiar, when you apply to these art festivals, and I know unfortunately, a lot of these are not happening right now, but in the future we will rise again. So there are two different shows. There are shows that are very expensive and my clients are always asking me, “Are these shows worth it?” And then there’s the cheaper shows where they’re asking you now to pay for your own insurance. So, could you shed some light over what these more high end shows are actually covering for the people that participate in them, versus the ones who make you buy insurance themselves? What is the protection there that the insurance covers?
Autumn Boyd:
When we think about insurance, again, we’re thinking about risk. So what are the things that could go wrong? And really there’s kind of two sides of a coin, for art shows. So you have the risk that your artwork could be damaged. That’s on you, that’s your problem. But there is insurance that you can get in case your artwork is damaged, in case somebody bumps into it, or spills a drink on it, or whatever.
Miriam Schulman:
They’re smoking and they burn their cigarette into-
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah. Or if the building catches on fire and all of your artwork goes up in flames, these are worst case scenarios, but they do happen. So it’s not-
Miriam Schulman:
Like trying to scare off the spirits, like my grandmother used to do, pooh, pooh, pooh, pooh.
Autumn Boyd:
But it is, like I see all the bad stuff, so I’m sharing all the bad stuff. So that’s one thing protecting your work is one side of the coin. The other side of the coin is what the festival or the art show is worried about, which is that you do something wrong. You have a candle in your booth, you knock it over, you burned down the building, or you damage other people’s work, or other people’s equipment. And so usually the insurance that they’re requiring you really protects the festival or the show. It’s not protecting you.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, they don’t care about you.
Autumn Boyd:
They don’t care about you, they don’t care about your artwork. They want to make sure you’re not going to damage the facility, the show, whatever. So usually the insurance is actually covering them, not you. And it’s usually, Miriam, you talked about this, you can get a onetime policy or you can sometimes get a year long policy. If you’re doing lots of shows, this is something where it’s a good idea to go ahead and start a relationship with an insurance agent, that you can talk about what’s the most cost effective way to do this.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. And am I then maybe wrong to assume that some of these higher end shows are insuring me? What is it that I should be looking for, or asking for when I’m making determination? Even if they’re not requiring me, I’m more aware of this because there’s certain shows that says, “Yes, you have to provide fire insurance. You have to show us the certificate that you have.” What do I look for to make sure that I’m covered? If they’re not requiring me, that they do have insurance that covers their participants, that I have?
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah. Yeah. When I read the contract, so there should be some sort of booth rental or participant contract. And if they’re covering you, it will say it. And if it doesn’t say that, or if you don’t have a contract, then you should presume you’re not covered, that it’s on you.
Miriam Schulman:
You know, you set up your tent booth and some crazy person rolls it over, you want to make sure you’re protected.
Autumn Boyd:
That’s right.
Miriam Schulman:
God forbid. By the way, I wanted to make sure you knew that I do have room inside my artists incubator program. If you’re lacking a solid strategy, or a winning mindset or both, or you’ve been disappointed with your current art sales, I can help with that. If you’ve been listening to this podcast and you found my tips helpful, maybe it’s time to take the next logical step and work with me on a deeper level.
The artists’ incubator program is for professional artists who want to take their art business to the next level. If you’re ready to invest in your art career and join a dynamic community of artists who are doing the same thing, you can go to Schulmanart.com/biz to apply now. There’s no fee. There’s no commitment to apply. And those who qualify get a discovery call with me. And I do want to emphasize that this is not a sales call. I only want to work with people who are already sold on working with me. What we’ll talk about is your desires, your goals, the next step you need to take to get there. And if I feel I’m the right person to help you with that, I will share the details about the artists’ incubator program during our call together. So to schedule your discovery call, go to Schulmanart.com/biz. Now back to the show. There is another question I get asked a lot. It’s about the song lyrics. Yes. You get asked that a lot, right?
Autumn Boyd:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. We all get inspired by your lyrics and pretty quotes and making quote art is very popular, but it’s not all up for grabs, is it? All these lyrics and quotes.
Autumn Boyd:
You know, Miriam, this is the worst answer that lawyers always give, which is, “It depends.”
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Well, explain that.
Autumn Boyd:
Song lyrics are protected by copyright. So just like your paintings, they’re a creative work, but in copyright law, you have to have enough of a work that it actually is considered a work. So like a sentence may or may not be enough that it is considered a whole work, or like three words or five words may not be enough. There is no black and white rule. But I would say if it’s just one sentence, it’s probably not protected by copyright.
Miriam Schulman:
Like the word yesterday probably isn’t protected?
Autumn Boyd:
Exactly.
Miriam Schulman:
But if I put the whole first verse, that would be?
Autumn Boyd:
Right, right. Yeah, exactly. But where the trick comes in, now we get into trademark law. So trademark protects brands. So think about like the name of a company, or a slogan, or a logo, trademark law protects how you identify where a product or a service came from. So what a lot of artists have done, Taylor Swift is notorious for this, is they want to put song lyrics on Merck. So they will register them as trademarks, if they’re well known. So you may have something that’s too short to be protected by copyright, but it may actually be protected as a trademark. It depends. This is always a little bit of a risk whenever you’re using other people’s stuff. Whenever you’re doing something that you didn’t come up with yourself, it’s always a minor risk. So you can do some Googling.
You can see, is the songwriter or the artist who made the song, are they selling stuff with that quote on it? That might be an indication that they consider it to be protected. Do a Google, and you may see are people talking about getting take-downs. I think if you’re on Etsy, there are some artists that are really aggressive or some record companies and there are other, The Beatles are definitely one of them, Disney is very aggressive. There are others that just kind of live and let live. So it’s going to depend on the owner. It’s going to depend.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And don’t think just because you’ve only had one sale on Etsy that they won’t find you, basically these big companies have armies of unpaid interns whose only job is to search for copyright infringement. And they will go after it, because you are interfering and competing against their rights to make money. And Taylor Swift, I imagine has no problems paying. I forgot what the number was, again, the $65 for every copyright registration for all her songs.
Autumn Boyd:
Yes. Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Because it’s lucrative to her, to be able to have ownership of all of that.
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah. Yeah. So it depends, you can try it, but I think if you’re selling on Etsy, the more take down notices you get, that will affect your account after a certain amount of time, if you’re constantly getting infringement violations filed against you.
Miriam Schulman:
I did have a little bit of hot water, not on Etsy, because I’m too old for that, when I was on eBay.
Autumn Boyd:
Same thing.
Miriam Schulman:
But the two things that I came into trouble with was one, I was creating cartoon pictures of Webkinz. Do you remember Webkinz?
Autumn Boyd:
Those little toys? Yes. So you sketched them basically?
Miriam Schulman:
I would sketch them, and they were these adorable little watercolor cartoons, but the problem was I think, in using the word Webkinz to describe it.
Autumn Boyd:
It is actually trademark, but it’s tricky.
Miriam Schulman:
Even though the image was original and not, that was not a copyright infringement. Could you explain? So we’re all both nodding our heads and we know what we’re talking about, but could you explain why that was legally a problem?
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah. So they own the trademark in the brand name, Webkinz. People are searching for Webkinz and the company that owns that wants you to find their stuff.
Miriam Schulman:
Not Miriam Schulman’s watercolors.
Autumn Boyd:
Miriam Schulman’s adorable watercolor. They want to kind of maintain their brand integrity. They want for consumers to find their stuff when you’re searching for their trademark. And it can be confusing. Let’s say Autumn is searching for a Webkinz for my kids, because I got three of them, they need all kinds of toys.
Miriam Schulman:
Do they still like Webkinz? Is that still a thing?
Autumn Boyd:
I don’t know if it’s a thing.
Miriam Schulman:
I don’t think it’s a thing anymore.
Autumn Boyd:
Anyway.
Miriam Schulman:
The older people will know what you’re talking about.
Autumn Boyd:
I know what you’re talking about. Yeah. But so let’s say I’m searching. And instead of finding the Webkinz that I’m looking for, I’m finding all this other stuff that’s not actually sold by the Webkinz company or whoever it is that owns Webkinz. So for them that’s not great because they want their customers to find their stuff. So that’s the whole goal of trademark law, is to keep customers, to basically help them find what they’re looking for. So when I go to the grocery and I want a can of Coke, I know what it tastes like. I know what I want. And so if Pepsi, if the can looks just like the Coke can, that’s very confusing to me. It makes it hard for me to find what I’m looking for.
Miriam Schulman:
If you’re using their brand name, it’s saying that they’re endorsing.
Autumn Boyd:
It’s almost like, yeah, or you’re affiliated with it. [crosstalk 00:23:23].
Miriam Schulman:
And I wasn’t, I was gone rogue.
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So by the way, with that particular thing, I had like 10 different auctions running and the first one they gave me a warning, but because I had nine other, I was taken down within 24 hours and I had my account frozen. The other thing that had happened to me, so this is something most people may not know about. Do you know the glass artist, Dale Chihuly?
Autumn Boyd:
Of course. Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
So I was making these beautiful, of course I’m describing all my own art as beautiful.
Autumn Boyd:
It’s amazing.
Miriam Schulman:
Just notice how I do that, by the way.
Autumn Boyd:
If you can’t be your own hype man.
Miriam Schulman:
[inaudible 00:23:59] Come on. There was this really wonderful exhibit at the botanical gardens. He’s been there recently. So this is before that, I think this was 12 years ago, and I took my own photographs and I created watercolors of these beautiful colored glass of, so for those who don’t know, Dale Chihuly, very famous glass artist, but also notorious for suing people. Again, on eBay, I was creating this artwork and saying paintings of Dale Chihuly glass. Now this time I was not taken down. This time, I got an email, not a cease and desist letter, it was an email from their publicist, politely asking me to stop. Now, what I imagined was that Dale Chihuly was not trademarked, the name. And that’s why they were asking me rather than more aggressively.
Autumn Boyd:
You’ve got options. And I talk about this with my clients when we do find a copycat or a trademark infringement. And sometimes we will start very nice, just like you said, because sometimes people don’t know any better. Sometimes they did it by accident, we give them the benefit of the doubt.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. But the content was just like, “Would you please not,” not like you violated your infringement.
Autumn Boyd:
Sometimes we start there and then the next letter, if you ignore us, then the next letter is like, “We assert all rights in this and you have violated my [inaudible 00:25:28].”
Miriam Schulman:
In both cases, and you can discuss this, the problem wasn’t that I was creating a painting of, the problem-
Autumn Boyd:
That is also a problem.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, it could be.
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. But the problem was, for Dale Chihuly’s publicist, who’ve contacted me, they didn’t care that I had a painting of it. They cared that I used it in the title.
Autumn Boyd:
It’s the same thing, he wants, I don’t know if he’s selling on eBay or if he was, but he wants anybody who’s looking for his work to find his work, not to find Miriam’s beautiful watercolor of his work.
Miriam Schulman:
I just wondered though, with that situation, if it was something that I was not about to build my whole career around painting and Dale Chihuly’s glass sculptures, but let’s pretend it was. I’m just wondering if that was something that could have fallen into fair use.
Autumn Boyd:
Probably not. That’s probably a copyright infringement. The owner of a work [crosstalk 00:26:26]. We live and learn when you create a work, you not only have the rights to control the copying of that work, and the distribution, and the taking images of that work, but you also have the right to do what are called derivative works, which you guys may have heard of in the art world, which means a work based on another work basically.
So your watercolor of his glass sculptures is technically a derivative work. So only he gets to decide who gets to make watercolors of his works. Now, if you had asked him nicely, maybe he would have said yes, you never know. So I always say, ask permission. And you never know. Sometimes people will say yes, but if not, you’re always taking a little bit of a risk. It could be fair use, but usually fair use and I’m not going to get, it’s like a multi-factor balancing test. I’m not going to get into that. But think about, did you make something totally new and different? Like, did you create some sort of collage that was a commentary on the state of Botanic gardens in America? You know, I mean think about like-
Miriam Schulman:
No, no. What’s beautiful about it, is really because of the glass sculpture.
Autumn Boyd:
Of course.
Miriam Schulman:
And I’m doing a representation of that.
Autumn Boyd:
So whether it’s that or if it’s just kind of doing it in a different medium, that’s usually kind of borderline.
Miriam Schulman:
I stopped doing it, on eBay.
Autumn Boyd:
[inaudible 00:27:42] Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. No, no, no, no. It’s in some private collections though. I mean I did of course sell before I was asked to stop. That just brings me to one more thing, because what you said, there is a sculpture garden storm King art center in Pitt. I want to say it’s in Kingston, New York, but they actually say you’re not allowed to photograph the sculptures. And I think it’s for that reason that you just said they control the images. And I think it’s also what we were saying earlier is that if people are monetizing the images, they don’t want somebody else competing against them.
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah. Maybe they saw the images in the gift shop on postcards and they want you to buy theirs.
Miriam Schulman:
They do. Yeah, they do. They don’t want you taking your DIY pictures and posting it on Instagram. Although I do think that’s something that happens even though they.
Autumn Boyd:
Well here where I live in Chattanooga, I can see it from my window. We have a beautiful sculpture garden that’s on the river and they just charge photographers a fee. So you can come in, you can take photos, but you’re going to pay for it. And that also cuts down on people who want to just enjoy the sculpture garden and having to weave around a bunch of photographers, trying to.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s true, like all the self portrait [crosstalk 00:28:54]. Yeah. So I had promised a couple of things and we may have hit upon it. So we’re just going to do like a rapid round through my different bullets. What are the important legal documents you need on your eCommerce website? So e-commerce being your website, your Etsy shop, your whatever it is.
Autumn Boyd:
So if you’re on somebody else’s platform like Etsy, you don’t have to worry about this as much. But if you have your own website required by law is a privacy policy.
Miriam Schulman:
Got one.
Autumn Boyd:
So this is where if you are collecting information from anyone, that means if you sell them something, you need their shipping address, or if they opt into your newsletter list, or if you have like a free digital something, they can give you their email address and you send it to them, any personal information you’re collecting, you have to tell them what you’re going to do with that information. Are you going to just keep it in your own business? Are you going to sell it to a third party? Are you going to spam them for other things? It’s required by law. And there’s very specific things that are required to be in there. I don’t recommend that you try and do that by yourself, buy a template. We have one, there’s lots of them available, just to make sure that you kind of hit all of the points that are required.
Miriam Schulman:
I have listed Autumn’s template in the show notes. So you can find the show notes at schulmanart.com/106. I did buy my template. I also want to strongly encourage you not to take somebody else’s privacy template and copy it because-
Autumn Boyd:
[inaudible 00:30:12].
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. And just like there are armies of interns that go looking for infringements. One of my dear friends had told me, don’t just do that because some lawyers actually do a search periodically for their words to find unauthorized usage. I guess you don’t do that, but there are some people who do. And you just don’t want to get caught that way. And you know, it’s not that expensive.
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah. So number one is your privacy policy required by law. Number two are your terms and conditions not required, but a good idea. This is where you can tell people, “I own the copyrights and all of the images and words on my website. Please do not use them without my permission or here’s how you contact me if you did want to feature my work on your blog or whatever,” and it can kind of be a placeholder for other things like disclaimers.
If you’ve got any required things like maybe you’re using eBay, but you say I’m not affiliated with eBay or like with Dale Chihuly, I’m not affiliated or endorsed by him. I just enjoy his work. You can include some of that stuff. It can kind of be a catch all. So terms and conditions are a good idea. And I will say, if you’re selling your art from your website, whether it’s digitally or the actual physical pieces, you’re probably going to want to have whatever your terms are, terms of purchase, so maybe shipping times or your refund policy telling your purchasers either yes, you’re allowed to re-post images of my work, or no, you’re not, can they use it as their Christmas card? They really love it or put it on social media. If you have any restrictions around how people are using your art, that can all go in your terms of purchase. So that’s another good idea to have.
Miriam Schulman:
And if you’re building an online art class, because that’s something we’ve been talking a lot about lately, it’s super important to make sure that you are clear with this, not just that you have some tiny print someplace, but both you know what you want your students to do and not to do with what you’re teaching them, and that they know what they are allowed to do and not do with what you’re teaching them.
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah, absolutely. They should have the option or the opportunity to read it before they purchase. And then ideally in my perfect world, I want like a checkbox that they have to say, I accept these terms and conditions, or I agree. You want them to take some affirmative action that says, whether they read it or not, that says you give them the opportunity and then it’s their choice. But agreeing whether they read it or not. And then if questions do come up later, you have that proof. I always think if I had to go in front of Judge Judy and show that yes, Miriam did agree to my terms of use, how am I going to show that? And if you’ve got, they have to do something affirmative, that’s ideal.
Miriam Schulman:
Now, I do know that you have a program that actually helps online course creators. Can you tell a little bit more about that?
Autumn Boyd:
I do, yes. So we have it’s our own course and it includes the five most essential templates for any online course creator. So it has all this stuff for your website. It has your course terms of use, has an independent contractor agreement if you need help with things, and then also an affiliate agreement. So it’s kind of got all the basics to get you started. And then we have videos that walk you through how to fill them in, kind of giving tips and tricks, not legal advice, but it makes it very easy for you to set those up on your own. And then we have monthly support calls. So kind of Q and A, just like [crosstalk 00:33:37] yeah. If you’re filling something in and you’re not sure what to do, we do Q and A for that as well. And that’s on our website awbfirm.com/course.
Miriam Schulman:
Thank you. I’ve also, again, included that link in the show notes, schulmanart.com/106. So we’re about to wrap up. Autumn, thank you so much for being here with me, today.
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah, that’s great questions, so it’s always fun.
Miriam Schulman:
I mean, I have a zillion more, but we only have an hour. Autumn also graciously came into the artist incubator program so that the coaching program students could ask her anything they wanted to. So we covered a lot of stuff in their contracts.
Autumn Boyd:
Yeah, painting on consignment, things out there.
Miriam Schulman:
Lots of things. And anyone who joins the incubator program does get access to that replay as well as get access to guests, like Autumn. From time to time, I do invite my podcast guests into the artist incubator. So if you like this episode, you have to check it out. It’s my private coaching program. It’s for artists who really want to take things to the next level. It is by application only. That’s to make sure we’re a good fit for each other. When you apply, go to Schulmanart.com/biz.
It’s not too complicated. I just want to get to know you. We set up an interview to talk. This is not a sales call. It’s a discovery call. I ask you about your goals. I want to know what’s holding you back. I share with you what I believe are the steps you need to take to get there. And then if I feel I’m the right person to help you, then I will share with you details about the program, and that is all free. And then we can talk about how we can work together in the future as part of the artist incubator program. Again, to apply for a call, Schulmanart.com/B-I-Z. All right, Autumn, do you have any last words for my listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Autumn Boyd:
Yes. A lot of people bury their head in the sand and try to ignore legal because it seems complicated or overwhelming, but I would just kind of cheer on your listeners, your artists, that it does not have to be so difficult. You know, just starting with something simple, like adding a privacy policy to your website, thinking about whether you need an LLC or not. You can kind of do it one step at a time and it doesn’t have to be that hard.
Miriam Schulman:
No, these templates really do make it super easy. And this is from a girl who does not like paperwork at all. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for being with me here today. You know what, I would really appreciate if you left a review and let us know what you thought of the show, and I’ve made that so much easier for you. All you have to do is go to schulmanart.com/review-podcast. And if you pop your Instagram handle inside the review, I’ll even give you a shout out over on my IG stories. If you’re international though, you may have to send me a quick email or direct message, because I don’t always see those international reviews. And I do want to make sure that I thank you properly. Okay. Thank you so much for being with me here today. I’ll see you next week. Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on facebook@facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram @Schulmanart, and of course, on schulmanart.com.
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