THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Miriam Schulman:
Well, hey there Passion Makers. it’s Miriam Schulman, chief inspiration officer and host of the Inspiration Place Podcast. You’re listening to episode number 130 shout outs to my newest listeners in Austria, Chile, Croatia, and Egypt. I am so grateful that you’re here. Today we’re talking all about why you may still be playing it small, even though you may be telling yourself you want to get your art out there and you want to play big. So in this episode, you’ll discover why your fear of success is actually holding you back. How to overcome your fears of visibility and why getting uncomfortable is the currency for your dreams. Today’s guest is founder of Revealed Path Life Coaching. She specializes in working with women who have ADHD tendencies, as a life coach she educates to increase awareness and coaches to help uncover obstacles that may be causing overwhelm and stress. Certified through the life coach school, she uses a tool called The Model to help clients feel better by learning how to manage their minds.
She’s driven by the desire to help neurodivergent minds access their brilliance. She also provides top notch mindset coaching to the artists inside the Artist incubator program. Please welcome to the Inspiration Place, Shaun Roney. Hey Shaun welcome to the show.
Shaun Roney:
Hi Miriam, Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, this is so long overdue. I’m so excited that you’re here. As I mentioned in the intro, Shaun actually works with the artists inside my program and is very familiar with the types of mind drama that comes up. So we’re going to dive right into it, if that’s okay with you.
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. Let’s do it.
Miriam Schulman:
All right. So one of the big things that I’ve seen a lot are people they want to make a bigger business. They want more art sales, but they actually are afraid of being seen, it feels scary. So can you describe what that looks like for people and if you use an example, you could just change the first name.
Shaun Roney:
I think what it commonly looks like is playing small and picking what I call low hanging fruit. So going after the things that feel like you’re busy and active and working on something and doing it, but really those are not the things that are going to put you out in front of more people. So it’s like the behind the scenes kind of busy-ness. I think that’s how it more commonly shows up. It’s also more about, not more about, but just as much about the fear of being rejected as it is the fear of being seen. And when they’re seen by more people, there’s just that much more opportunity in they’re… like toddler brains we talked about, right? That they might be rejected. People might not actually love what they’re doing and that it might feel really, really bad.
Miriam Schulman:
I actually do want to give an example and I’m pretty sure she’s okay about my talking about this. Because she’s coming onto the podcast. Don is coming on the podcast soon to talk about her success. So when I first met Don, she was painting small paintings and she was selling them for 50 bucks. She may even have been selling them for less, but we won’t talk about that. Now she’s selling big paintings for $1,400. And I don’t know if she shared with you, but last week she told me she made $8,300 from selling these paintings. And this sounds so amazing and so incredible, but it’s even more incredible because we know that journey that she took from being so scared to put a high price tag on her art and to paint these large paintings, like who’s going to want this? And who’s going to pay this for my art, who am I to price this?
Because I am just starting out. So using that as an example, there’s two things going on. It’s one, the fear of pricing high but I also thought just taking up more space with a bigger painting was difficult for her, but also not just Don. I don’t want anyone to think I’m picking on Don. I see this example over and over again with my clients that they paint these little bitty things because they’re scared.
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. For sure. Having a sneak peek, honestly at Don’s launch also, yes, there’s more of the taking up space and being comfortable with taking up space and being bolder with that and valuing, right? She values what she’s doing and then that’s translating into other people also valuing what she’s doing. And so there’s a sense of get in on it early, right? There’s this it’s special and you want to get on and on it early before it’s gone. The whole limited edition thing, there’s only one of each. And so you really want to, again, get in on as early and not being afraid to be seen at all now, really putting it out there with the change in prices and the change in sizes and all of the offerings. It’s been really honestly exciting to see her belief around what’s possible, really has shifted from when she was selling them for much less to what she’s doing now.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And then not picking on Don, but just using multiple artists as examples, you use the thought model, which is Brica Steele’s work. We have a circumstance and then we have a thought about it, and it’s these thoughts that we believe to be true is usually the stickiest part of the whole thing. What I hear people say to me, no one will pay for that in my area. No one wants this. I don’t know anybody who wants this, all those thoughts and you’ve heard more than I have I think because or as much as I have, because you actually help them break it down. So what were some other thoughts you’ve heard, not just Don, but just in general that people put in that T-line that have kept them from playing a bigger game?
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. A few of the thoughts that have really come up frequently are everything is changed, and I can’t get in front of as many people as I can at a live show. That is one of the biggest thoughts that has come up over and over again, because this landscape looks different now and it’s online and some things have changed. Well, that just means I’m unable to get in front of as many people and I don’t know how to reach people.
It’s so interesting because those are just thoughts, but people share them like it’s true like, “No, no, no, no, no. You don’t understand. This is how the art community works. We go to shows in person and we sell art.” It’s a common belief, not everyone believes that but it is a common belief. And it’s like, “Oh, we can’t just question that and really ask, is that true? How is that not true? How might I be able to get in front of as many people as I used to or even more, right? How am I able to now reach people who actually will pay what I’m asking for these paintings or will pay a higher amount for this artwork.” Those are all the other side of the coin and just questions that they can ask to really uncover some of that.
Miriam Schulman:
Shaun, I really like the way you brought in something very like topical, what’s happening right now. Because some of the other thoughts I was sharing before is really any time that could have been 2019, 2016, 2025. But some of the things that I’m hearing now, they’re just really different flavors though. So one thing that I hear a lot is because of COVID people don’t have money, which actually people who buy art who have money, the truth is they have more money now than they did before because the luxury spending options of what they were spending money on, they were traveling, they were eating out, they were going to the theater. So the thought that people aren’t buying art now, not only is it not serving you, but it actually is a lie because people are spending our home, looking at their walls with extra… and we’re talking about not all people but the people who have money, have more money. And this is what they want to spend it on. What have you seen around that?
Shaun Roney:
For sure. There’s been just a reallocation, right? Of money. So whether it’s more, same, there’s just a reallocation. It’s not… like you said, it’s not being spent in the way that it may be was pre-COVID and so people are spending it in different ways. And a lot of those ways have to do with, “How can I create more comfort in my immediate vicinity, right? How can I spruce up my home? How can I make the four walls that I’m looking at, actually a little more exciting and interesting and alive?”
Miriam Schulman:
People are working from home. They want that environment to look good and feel good. And those people are spending money on art as well and spending money on their home and in their environment. There’s an example of another thought that people are saying to themselves like it’s facts and it’s not helping them.
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. It’s just not true. So if we were to put COVID spending as the circumstance, there are going to be people who believe that there’s a lot more spending going on and there’s going to be people who believe that there’s a lot less spending going on. And as an artist, who are you talking to, right? You can find evidence for both stories, which one is going to serve you the most if your goal is to create art that you love and sell it and make a business from it.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s super important. I want to circle back to the whole idea also of painting bigger more expensive things, being scarier than painting small things, cheaper things. Don was one example we gave. But another example, and I see this many times over. Somebody who will be spending all this time to design a $4 sticker or a mug, a hand painted mug, but it’s still a mug. So there’s still a cap on what people will spend on that hand painted mug, and they don’t want to let go of that idea. Well, they don’t believe that people are going to spend more on their art if they take that bigger, bolder risk with it.
Shaun Roney:
Yes. I think there’s this around, like wanting the barrier to entry to be so low. The ask is so minimal, they want to make it easy, again I think it comes back to that fear of rejection. If I am painting this giant piece of art, right? And I’m asking this amount of money that feels larger maybe for them, they’re going be a belief that maybe there’s this barrier of entry being created, like I’m going to make it harder for people to buy from me because it’s so big and it costs more.
So let me just do this little thing over here, because the risk is smaller. The likelihood of someone saying no to a mug that costs 20 bucks feels lower than the likelihood of someone saying yes to a large canvas that costs thousands of dollars. But really it’s just a matter of matching, finding the right person that’s looking for the right thing. And when you’re trying to build a business through your art you have to sell a lot of mugs. If you compare the number of mugs you have to sell versus finding the one person that really is interested in that large canvas.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And if you do the math, if you want to make $50,000 a year and the most you can sell a hand painted mug for is $50, you have to sell a 1000 mugs. You are way better off pricing art for a $1000 and finding 50 people who want a thousand dollar painting or 25 people who want a $2,000 painting. And then you don’t have to spend all of your time with a cramp tan painting on mugs.
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. It’s actually because the level of investment, when it comes to creative investment, just like thinking of the concept and coming up with it and then actually doing the work and creating it, you’re putting in time either way. And so what’s going to give you the greater return on investment if you’re creating art both ways and you really enjoy doing both. I think it really just also, again, comes back to that fear of being rejected and a belief that, “Well, it won’t feel so bad if it’s a mug, I can always find someone else to buy a mug.” But I think with the bigger level, the larger level of discomfort comes the greater possibility like that, it’s where you really discover what’s possible, the more uncomfortable you’re willing to be. So if you’re willing to ask for a large amount and paint that large canvas and have a many people say, “I’m sorry, not for me.” Eventually, you’re going to find the person that’s like, “Oh my gosh, that is mine.” Right?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And the truth is unfortunately the customer service is just as much for these little thinky things that don’t make you a lot of money, you spend just as much time answering people’s questions. Is the dishwasher safe? Could I put it in the microwave? All these things are… you’re going to be get all these questions and spending time dealing with customers, when… and we’re not just talking about mugs, I’m talking about all of those in the $50 and under sandbox. Playing in that sandbox there’s a lot of time overhead that you have to invest in playing that game that same amount of time could be invested in working with a higher end customer who is probably going to be easier to deal with in the end, because they’re not looking for a bargain.
Shaun Roney:
Yes. Something that’s come up quite a bit as well is when it comes to the ask, right? Just believing what your value is and how you create value. And then what the ask is going to be. If you look at all of the levels, so like $50, let’s say and a $100 and a $1000 and a $10,000 piece of artwork. There are people at all of those levels that are looking to buy art and so be sure you can create $50 pieces of art and you will find people that will pay that.
But you’re also going to find people that think $50 is too much and you’re going to find people that think $50 is not enough for a mug. So it must be bad and that will happen at every level.
Miriam Schulman:
It must be a printed mug.
Shaun Roney:
It must not be up-
Miriam Schulman:
Can’t be hand painted.
Shaun Roney:
Not an original, yes, all the things.
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly.
Shaun Roney:
And you’ll find that at a $100, and you’ll find that at a $1000 and you’ll find it at $10,000, it really comes down to how much do you value what your putting into the world. And the more in line you get with your belief around that value, those people will start to find you, but you have to be in their orbit. You have to be in their space for them to even know that your art exists.
Miriam Schulman:
A lot of those people, they will not look at you if it’s priced too low. I know that a lot of artists believe that they are excluding people by pricing and art too high, but often the opposite is also true that they’re excluding people by pricing the art too low, because the high end shoppers, like you said, they’re not going to even think it has the value of what they come to expect if it’s below a threshold of what they expect to pay. And the example I like to give is a bottle of wine. There are certain people who… it has to be $20 and other people it has to be $50 and it can’t be good if it’s less than a $100. So everyone has their different thresholds and you’re excluding people either way. So you might as well make more money.
Shaun Roney:
For sure and if you’re trying to be the low price leader of art, which I never suggest, because then you are literally competing with the HomeGoods and the Walmarts and the Targets of the world, because they’re mass produced art costs that, you know what I mean? Or less. So you’re taking your unique art and you’re basically devaluing it by saying like, “This is who I’m competing with. I really I want to get in and behind the lowest.” The best and the lowest it’s never a good business strategy.
Miriam Schulman:
You can be fast. You can be good or you can be cheap. You can’t be all three. Hey, by the way, I wanted to make sure you knew that I actually have a few spots, very few, but there are a few spots open inside the Artist Incubator mastermind. So if you’re lacking a solid strategy or a winning mindset, and you’re disappointed with your results, we can help you. If you’ve been listening to this podcast and you found these tips helpful, maybe it’s time to take the next logical step and come work with us on a deeper level. The Incubator program is for professional emerging artists who want to take their art business to the next level. So if you’re ready to invest in your art career and join this dynamic community who are all doing the same thing, go to schulmanart.com/B-I-Z to apply now.
There’s no fee or commitment to apply. And those who qualify get a free personalized artist profit plan for 2021, go to schulmanart.com/B-I-Z. One thing I wanted to talk to you in terms of visibility that I talk to my artists a lot and that is getting publicity because I’m a big believer in using publicity to build your audience. Especially when we do not have the option of getting in front of people in person. There’s the social media, but there’s also what I like to call the real media, the print media, podcasts, television, those things that I know that even though artists who truly want more visibility for their art, they still are very uncomfortable with turning the spotlight on themselves. By the way, Shaun is nodding her head vigorously for people who can’t see her, let’s talk about it.
Shaun Roney:
Yeah. There’s an element of not wanting to tooth their own horn for lack of a better term and think it’s worth exploring as an artist. What do you make it mean if you are proudly putting yourself out there and sharing what you do with these publications or pitching yourself to podcasts or pitching yourself to… I had a friend, actually an artist who pitched herself to a mall, right? Pre COVID so that her artwork was featured on a mall billboard. But it takes the level of like, “No, I believe in what I’m doing and I want to share it with the world. And so I’m going to take the risk to be seen and pitch myself to these different venues.”
Miriam Schulman:
How much of it is that they are truly afraid to be in the spotlight versus being afraid of being rejected when they do pitch themselves or is it both?
Shaun Roney:
I know, I think is both, I think fear of being in the spotlight is really tied to the reason people often don’t want to be in the spotlight is because other people might then have thoughts about them, that aren’t-
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. So it’s the one level is being rejected by whoever the gatekeeper is that’s going to put you in to the media, but the other level of rejection is once you get the media, that you’ll be rejected by whoever you’re put in front of, is that what you mean, Shaun?
Shaun Roney:
Yes. Yes. I haven’t think of it that way, but like a double rejection.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, no, that’s what you just explained. I was like, wow-
Shaun Roney:
Yes, people are going to have opinions. And I don’t… they might not be…
Miriam Schulman:
They may not like me.
Shaun Roney:
Favorable. Yeah, and so I think one big element of that is just allowing people to, not like you, be wrong about you, right? You’re not going to be everyone’s cup of tea, especially as an artist. Artist so subjective, you’re going to appeal to some people and you’re definitely not going to appeal to others. That’s just the way it works. That’s a beautiful thing, actually. That’s what’s going to cause people to find you.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s true of every artist. If you look at the biggest names ever, people who really didn’t like Picasso or didn’t like Renoir, thought he was too pastelly, too prissy or thought Norman Rockwell’s paintings were too sentimental. You can take that with all artists, they had lovers and haters.
Shaun Roney:
Always. So you have to be willing. In order to find the lovers, the people that are going to pay for your larger pieces where you’re commanding top dollar, like asking for more, that just comes with realizing you’re having haters. Otherwise you’re just landing in the middle, it really is hard to find the people that want what you’re offering, if you’re not willing to experience both.
Miriam Schulman:
As people we’ve evolved in… I’m not quite sure if this is the PC way of putting it, but we’re very tribal that we have been evolved to gravitate towards loving and hating. And the people love often because of the hating. They like to… if they are identifying with, “I love your kind of artwork.” Part of what makes it cool for them to love it, is that. Not everybody loves it, that is what’s fun about it because I know myself personally, I am very resistant to things that are like a trend, no, I can’t check out Game of Thrones, it can’t be good because everybody likes it, it’s a fact.
Shaun Roney:
So funny.
Miriam Schulman:
And there’s other things like that too. I just can’t think of them off the top of my head, where I’m like, “No, I’m not doing that.” Or whatever it is, Clubhouse, Periscope.
Shaun Roney:
Yes. I always say I’m an outlier. I agree, I totally get that.
Miriam Schulman:
Like not wanting to do something if everybody likes it?
Shaun Roney:
Yes, yes. That instantly makes it like too common, which equates to a little boring.
Miriam Schulman:
Right, I don’t want to dress from The Gap.
Shaun Roney:
Yes. I hear you.
Miriam Schulman:
Especially now like you’re going to walk down the street. If I wear something from The Gap, that means, “Well, this is how I used to feel when my kids were younger.” It would be humiliating for me, if I put on an outfit and one of my daughter’s friends had the same outfit. To me that was like the worst. So I would even try to shop in different places and find something that works like weird that nobody else has and it’s that way with art, people want something that is special and weird and different, and part of that is not everybody loves it.
Shaun Roney:
Yes. For sure. I would think that’s one of the primary goals. Not that your art is driven by that as an artist, but that when people get to the point where they’re like, “Oh, that’s a Miriam piece. That’s a Shaun piece. That’s it.” Right? They can recognize it because it stands out on its own. That is saying something, that is what people are paying for, something that draws them, that captivates them. It’s hard to do if you look like every other flavor out there.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Also, if you keep changing flavors too.
Shaun Roney:
True.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s a totally different topic, but I feel like the need to put it in there. But that’s part of the person who has the mindset that they’re following trends. That now they’re doing this trend and then they’re doing that trend instead of really stepping in, and it’s okay to experiment. I’m not saying as an artist you shouldn’t experiment, but there are artists who… they don’t know what’s true for themselves because they spend so much time looking at everybody else.
Shaun Roney:
Yes. It’s the people pleasing version of an artist’s life, right? When you’re constantly looking at what other people like, and what they want and then adjusting for art to meet those needs.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. I never thought of it that way, but yeah. People pleasing with your art, so true.
Shaun Roney:
It’s like, “Oh, I can do that. Sure. I can paint your dog, even though you don’t ever do dog portraits, right? It’s not your thing.” Or you’re like, “Oh no, I can paint a super modern piece for you or no I’ll do it. I’ll do a poured acrylic,” and like none of it is what you really do. But it just rises up, because that’s what you see or what people are asking for and so you’re willing to cut off what you do, from a place of lack I would say, and fearfulness, like belief that maybe what you want to do is not good enough or is not going to be asked for or there’s not going to be the demand. So you need to chameleon yourself into what people are wanting.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh yeah. Shaun, that is so beautifully put, but I do see that a lot and I love the way you put that. When people’s art just looks like, they’re doing this teacher and then they’re doing that teacher is what I see. But I never thought of it as coming from the mindset of people pleasing.
Shaun Roney:
Less likely to be rejected.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. It’s also the perfectionism that kicks into because if they want to get everything perfect or what does perfect look like? And then having that definition of perfect being somebody else’s perfect, rather than their own imperfect, authentic expression. Does that make sense to you as well?
Shaun Roney:
It does. Yeah, rather than what feels good for them and their natural expression of art, they are like, “Nope, let me get this technique down, and if I do it just right and check all the boxes, then I know I’m guaranteed to sell it because I’m just painting by number basically, I’m following the rules and I’m going to present this.” I don’t know if you would agree with this, but I feel like art is meant to be perfectly imperfect, meaning the messier the better in many ways.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, I 100% agree with that, and there’s even non-Western cultures, but I think it’s the tibetan women who do those woven rugs. Somebody email me if I’m getting this wrong, but what I remember reading is that they would put in a deliberate mistake into their woven rugs because they believed only God should be perfect, so that it was called the deliberate mistake that they would put into their artwork. Rugs is a very precise thing, so they would do something that was… I don’t know if it was in the row counts was off or there was like, somebody had 11 toes. I don’t know how the mistake actually showed up, but they would call that the deliberate mistake.
Shaun Roney:
Yeah, I love that. The art that’s ever really only moved me is something that I’ve never quite seen before. It had an element of, “Wow, this is so different and unique and bold and risky.” I think any art piece that leaves an impression has the elements of making someone pause and really notice it that when you’re taking smaller risks, that doesn’t happen when you’re doing the coffee mug thing or doing the small prints. Sure, if you’re running your business and you want to do it for fun because it’s fun and enjoyable, absolutely. But if what you want is a business and to generate income from your art and you’re hiding out in the coffee mug space, and please also don’t take it the wrong way for those of you that are killing it with coffee mugs. I’m sure there are many artists out there that do that, but if you’re hiding in the coffee mugs, that’s a whole different vibe.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And not playing big and not stepping into what’s more vulnerable and more visible. So we talked about there’s the circumstances, we talked about the thoughts that don’t serve us and the circumstance. It’s the feelings that we explored it a little bit. We talked about the feelings of fear. Is uncomfortable a feeling?
Shaun Roney:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
Let’s talk about people not wanting to feel uncomfortable.
Shaun Roney:
So I think there can be just so much resistance to it. So when people feel uncomfortable, they think it’s a red flag, like, “Whoa, stop, turn around wrong way.” When actually the opposite is true. If trying to find your growth edge and do something bigger and you feel uncomfortable or discomfort, it usually a sign like, “Yep, this way, come on over you’re headed in the right direction.” Because there is discomfort attached to doing anything new or different. If it’s not uncomfortable, it usually means you’re not stretching yourself enough or you’re not going big enough. Yeah, noticing when you’re feeling uncomfortable, if you’re using it as a way to gauge, am I moving in the right direction or not? I think it’s a good sign and then intentionally find a thought to help you embrace that space.
So like, I’m uncomfortable, yes, that means I must be headed in the right direction. And then really asking yourself, now what is the result I want to create? And maybe it’s to pitch yourself, right? To a large publication. How are you going to need to feel in order to actually take that action of pitching yourself? Uncomfortable is probably not going to be helpful at that point is helpful as the sign that you’re headed in the right direction. But then you’re probably going to want to find a feeling that’s more supportive in order to actually do the thing and pitch yourself.
Miriam Schulman:
So Shaun, that brings me to a question that I always have. I think I know the answer or I think I know what I want the answer to be. When artists come to me and they’re having fears or discomfort, what I like to tell them, and you can tell me if there’s something better to say here, is that it’s not that fear or that discomfort really goes away. It’s has to be a partner and allow those feelings to come along for the ride because sometimes the only way to push away those feelings is to either avoid the thing that’s making you uncomfortable or to eat or drink or go on social media.
Shaun Roney:
It’s not necessarily going to go away. So that’s a great point, just move it out of the driver’s seat though. So it’s not the primary emotion driving, and put it in the copilot seat. So it’s along for the ride, it’s there, but what emotion do you really want to have driving this new thing that you’re trying to do? It might be courage or it might be boldness or bravery or confidence. It’s going to be different for different people. And sure fear is just going to be tucked into the side in the sidecar, along for the ride.
Miriam Schulman:
I always like to think of the wizard of Oz. When a cowardly lion gets the purple heart and the wizard says, having courage isn’t about not being afraid. It’s just about you’re willing to do it anyway, even though you’re afraid. That’s what courage is. I love that movie.
Shaun Roney:
The more you push through it, the better it gets, right? The next time it feels a little bit less scary, you’re like, “Yep. I’ve been here before and this is totally normal, and we’re going to keep going, even though it feels scary.”
Miriam Schulman:
That is a beautiful place to start wrapping up. I just want to remind everybody if you liked this episode, you have to check out the Artist Incubator. It’s my private coaching program, you will get both me and Shaun in the program, helping you both with the strategy of how to sell your art and also overcoming any of those mindset blocks that we talked about.
So if you want to check it out, it is by application only. There’s no rejection by the way, either once I look at your application, if I think you’re a good fit. I’ll invite you to take the next step. If I don’t think you’re ready for it, I’ll suggest something else. So to apply, go to schulmanart.com/biz. And if you do qualify, we’ll get on a Zoom call together and discuss the steps you need to take to move your business forward. All right, so Shaun, you have a program called Brain Brilliance, would you describe what that is?
Shaun Roney:
Two coaching calls a week specifically teaching on ADHD and neurodiversity. And then I coach for the remaining of term.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, beautiful. So they can find that revealedpath.com, perfect. Okay. So it’s good for people to explore their ADHD tendencies and they narrow divergent brain. So I’ve included links to Shaun’s site in the show notes and everything we talked about schulmanart.com/130. Alrighty Shaun, do you have any last words for my listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Shaun Roney:
No, I actually think what we said, right? Towards the end was just so important, if you can embrace the fear and just tuck it in the sidecar and then move forward anyway, so that you can be seen in a bigger, larger way, that’s going to be the thing that serves you the most.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. Beautiful, thank you so much for joining me. All right my Passion Maker, thank you for being here, I’ll see you the same time. Same place next week. Stay inspired.
Thank you for listening to the Inspiration Place Podcast. Connect with us on Facebook @facebook.com/schulman on Instagram @schulmanart, and of course on schulmanart.com.
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Are you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. I’m adding a bunch of bonus episodes to the mix and if you’re not subscribed there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on those. Click here to subscribe in iTunes!
Now if you’re feeling extra loving, I would be really grateful if you left me a review over on iTunes, too. Those reviews help other people find my podcast and they’re also fun for me to go in and read. Just click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Thank you!