THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Terry Runyan:
So, I learned to see that whole thing differently, and it’s not that the perfectionism doesn’t come up or the imposter syndrome or any of that inner critic stuff doesn’t come up. I just see it for what it is, and I know who I am. And so, it’s like a train of thought. It’s habits. It’s conditioning of thought that comes through. Pretty much every time I approach a piece of art, I have it all come up.
Speaker 2:
It’s the Inspiration Place podcast, with artist Miriam Schulman. Welcome to the Inspiration Place podcast, an art world insider podcast, for artists, by an artist, where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the art. And now, your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, hey there, passion maker. This is Miriam Schulman, your curator of inspiration, and you’re listening to episode number 195 of the Inspiration Place podcast. I am so grateful that you’re here with me today. Now, before I bring on our guest, I wanted to catch you up a little bit, what’s happening behind the scenes. So, as of this recording, and I’m recording way in your past, so, time travel, back in April. As of this recording, I’m still living in suburbia, but now I’m surrounded by boxes. And if you heard me say on the podcast that I’ve been painting my furniture, well, I’ve actually run out of furniture to paint in my home. So far in my suburban home, I’ve painted four dressers, which, I sold one of them, two bookcases, my work table, the chairs that go with them and two desks. Oh, and a bed. Oh wait, wait, wait. There’s more, actually. And two nightstands. Oh wait, wait, wait. I just remembered, there’s one more thing I painted. Also this sideboard.
I’ll try to post all the pictures. Eventually I’ll get to posting them all on Instagram, because it’s really fun what you can do with paint. And as an artist, the supplies you use, if you work in water media, like acrylic paint, the supplies you use for painting furniture are basically the same kind of supplies you use for painting with acrylics. I started off using leftover house paint, and now I’ve been using this paint called Fusion Mineral paint, which, really, it’s acrylic paint, by the way.
So, anyway. My real estate agent, who follow me on Instagram, she messaged me and she said she wouldn’t have had the courage to paint her furniture. And I thought to myself, I don’t know. It takes a lot more courage to sell your home of 25 years and move to a new place than it does to paint a piece of furniture. So, just being an artist, and maybe you can relate to this, every time I sit down to create, I am facing that courage, that monster, those demons, and I’m having to dig deep into my well of courage, because we never know if what we’re going to create is going to come out as we imagine or we hope. But that doesn’t stop us for doing it, or at least, it shouldn’t stop you from doing it. That’s why I love what my guest and I talk about in today’s show. So, although she’s a watercolor painter and she’s been a professional one for many decades, what we focused on today is managing your mind. Please welcome to the Inspiration Place, Terry Runyan. Well, hey there, Terry. Welcome to the show.
Terry Runyan:
Hi, Miriam. So happy to be here.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So, you must have your own cats. Am I right?
Terry Runyan:
I do have my own cats. They’re right next to me right here. Riley and Tucker, brother sister.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, So what kind of cats do you have? I’m very much a cat person.
Terry Runyan:
Here’s one. This is Riley, and her feet. And I’ll show you her brother as well. This is Tucker, and he’s kind of famous because he helps me with my artwork.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, there they both are. Oh my gosh.
Terry Runyan:
Yeah. So yeah, they’re my greatest inspirations and I love them to death. I’m so glad they’re right here with me most of the time.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, I know what you mean, and I’m suddenly feeling very emotional because, we are selling our home in Westchester County and moving to the city, and my daughter, my 24-year-old moved out, and part of a consolation prize for her was I said, “You could have the cat.” My cat, Ebony. I’m saying my cat, now it’s her cat. And I really miss having the cat with me in the studio, and I told my husband, “There’s another cat in my future. I’m sorry.”
Terry Runyan:
Yes. It’s hard not to have our furry friends next to us.
Miriam Schulman:
Right, because I’m just talking to myself all day.
Terry Runyan:
So yeah, they actually act like they’re listening to me when I’m talking to them. Which is nice.
Miriam Schulman:
So, my cat’s a tuxedo cat, which, I love the tuxedos that you have on your artwork, and I’m sure I’ve seen your artwork before on products or somehow come across it because it’s just, your style, you have very distinctive style that seems familiar to me.
Terry Runyan:
Thank you.
Miriam Schulman:
Really glad that you’re here. How long have you been doing art licensing?
Terry Runyan:
I started licensing, I worked for Hallmark for 30 years as an in-house artist, did some tuxedos there as well. So, you might see it on products like Hallmark products, but also, after I left there in 2016, I retired to paint some large scale paintings, but I ultimately, inevitably, after a year of that, I went back to illustration, and around that time is when I started licensing my work, outside Hallmark, that is.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. So, what kinds of products would we find your kitties on right now, if we were going to go looking for them?
Terry Runyan:
Calendars are not out yet for this year, but they will be coming out, for next year, that is. And books. Let’s see. Mugs, T-shirts, pillows, licensing on cards. It’s escaping me. There’s other things they’re licensed on. Jewelry, the recent one. Working on some puzzles, those aren’t out yet.
Miriam Schulman:
Cool. These are all the things that I’m like, “Okay, yes. My daughter and me.” So, when I saw it, I mean, I loved all of it, but recently when I was looking at your Instagram, you have this adorable picture and it’s woman and the hairdos, each hairdo is a cat. That one killed me.
Terry Runyan:
I try to do one of those every week. It’s called hashtag #catonheadwednesday. So, I started that back when I was still working at Hallmark in 2016. And I don’t know why I put cats on heads, other than the fact that these kitties will lay on my head whenever I’m lying down. And I do have a friend from Hallmark that, her cat actually sits on top of her head when she’s standing up, which is nuts.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, my gosh.
Terry Runyan:
Typical cat behavior. So yeah, I do a cat on head Wednesday every Wednesday, or most Wednesdays. So, very fun, and I like to see how many different ways I can represent that.
Miriam Schulman:
So, my cat does not even sit on my lap. She’s a room cat. She keeps me company, but not a lap cat, unfortunately.
Terry Runyan:
Well, maybe the new one you get in your new place will be more cuddly.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s right. Exactly.
Terry Runyan:
More of a cat hat.
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly. The only problem is my daughter’s coming to visit, she’s like, “Well what about Ebony and the new cat, and they’re not going to get along?” It’s like, “We’ll put them in a different room, I don’t know.”
Terry Runyan:
We have our priorities.
Miriam Schulman:
I know. I need a cat back in my life very soon. Losing it here.
Terry Runyan:
Most everyone needs a cat, or a dog, or something.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes, a pet. It’s amazing how much… So, for a very long time, we didn’t have a pet, because I’m allergic to cats, actually. And I made the decision about 11 years ago, I didn’t care.
Terry Runyan:
I actually am allergic as well.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, you are?
Terry Runyan:
Yeah. Just my eyes have a little reaction to them but, yeah, not so much that I would torture myself and not have a cat.
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly. And I decided it was my decision to make. Other people couldn’t make that decision for me, but I could make the decision.
Terry Runyan:
That is correct.
Miriam Schulman:
And I think I got a little bit conditioned to my own cat. I’m not as allergic to my own cat, but sometimes, so she, here in the suburb, she goes outside. She brings in pollen. She brings in dust, and I think I’m more allergic to that with her. But when I see other people’s cats, I tend to react more than I do with my own.
Terry Runyan:
Well hopefully your new kitty will be even less so that you’ll react, other than just the reaction of love.
Miriam Schulman:
She’ll be an apartment cat, so she won’t be bringing that stuff.
Terry Runyan:
They won’t be going out.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s right. There’ll be no going out in that cat’s life.
Terry Runyan:
Excellent.
Miriam Schulman:
So, have you been painting cats this whole time, the whole career of Hallmark also included cats?
Terry Runyan:
Well, whenever I could, I like to paint or draw cats, but I started when I was young. I used to draw horses a lot, which, kids love horses anyway. And dogs. I was really into drawing and painting dogs. But in the last 30 years or so, it’s been more geared towards cats. When I worked at Hallmark, I didn’t have a lot of choice about what I drew a lot of the time. I had all kinds of different animals and people that I would include in my work. But since leaving there, I focus much more heavily on cats. Dogs, but mostly cats. There’s not an animal I don’t like. They’re very fun to draw.
Miriam Schulman:
And I assume that’s what you teach in your classes, how to draw different animals. Is that right?
Terry Runyan:
I have different classes. I have a class on finding your style, I have a class on watercolor, I have a class on cut paper. Just released a class on embracing the wonky on Skillshare. These are all on Skillshare. And there is a bent towards doing cats in most of my classes, but I also do dogs and birds and all kinds of different things.
Miriam Schulman:
Nice, okay. And tell us a little bit about your book, then. So, how long have you been working on this book?
Terry Runyan:
Painting Happiness: Creativity with Watercolors started a year or two ago. I connected with Leaping Hare Press. They actually got ahold of me. They knew my Instagram account and asked if I would be interested in doing a book. So, we talked about it, and this book has mindfulness in it, watercolor creativity in general, and it talks a lot about the things that artists run up against in their creative life. The inner critic, perfectionism, feeling like you’re blocked, that sort of thing. Not only that, but it also goes into how to use watercolor, and a lot of different projects too.
Miriam Schulman:
So it blends both the how-to as well as the mindset?
Terry Runyan:
Correct.
Miriam Schulman:
Wow. That’s really great. I don’t know if I’ve seen that.
Terry Runyan:
Yeah. So, my top interest is helping artists remember who they are on a grand scale, their inherent worth and their inherent creativity, and seeing their art as an expression of that, but not an indication of their value. And taking that heaviness off the artist to have to perform or do the right thing, or get the illustration right. It’s more about having fun and exploring creativity, having a conversation with creativity, rather than it meaning anything about you.
Miriam Schulman:
What do you say to artists who are either… I’m not sure where to enter this conversation. So, I met somebody on the train once and I was sharing that I was an artist, and I was so sad for this person, because she was so blocked about screwing up that she didn’t even want to take an art class. Do you feel like you can help people like that, who are, they’re so afraid to even try?
Terry Runyan:
I was at that place in my life. I did art as a kid, but quickly developed a very strong perfectionist tendency, and very comparing. I had a sense that I wasn’t good enough just personally, and so the art became too much an indication of me, of how good I am as a person, rather than just part, and my worth being different. So, I spent a lot of time getting clear about who I am and my inherent value, without having to earn it. It’s all of our birthrights. So, that was a big part of my journey. And the art piece, and knowing that the art is an expression of creativity, but not linked to personal value, that whole thing brought it all together so that I went from thinking I wasn’t even an artist. Even when I was working at Hallmark, I had a really hard time with imposter syndrome and thought I was only an artist based on my last piece of artwork and now I had to prove myself again, and it was pretty intense.
Terry Runyan:
So, I learned to see that whole thing differently. And it’s not that the perfectionism doesn’t come up, or the imposter syndrome, or any of that inner critic stuff doesn’t come up. I just see it for what it is, and I know who I am. And so, it’s like a train of thought. It’s habits. It’s conditioning of thought that comes through. Pretty much every time I approach a piece of art, I have it all come up. And I know what it is. I can name it and not push against it or try to get rid of it. It naturally, as thoughts do, will go out of my brain, the less attention I give to it.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, so there’s so many questions now I have about this.
Terry Runyan:
Okay. Let’s do it.
Miriam Schulman:
So, first of all, how long ago did you do this self-development work? How did you find the work that you needed to do on yourself?
Terry Runyan:
It was actually when I was, let’s see, around 31, I had a crisis situation happen and started looking into… Well, I always looked into self-help stuff throughout my whole life, because I was struggling with my own worth. I really didn’t feel good about myself most of the time unless I was somehow performing. And so, that was something that was always part of my life. And when I was 31, it was after I started at Hallmark, I started opening up to a more spiritual perspective on things, and that’s when the big changes started happening as far as my sense of who I am. And over the years, it’s been a rollercoaster. Forgetting, remembering, forgetting, remembering, forgetting. And that still happens, but the foundation of knowing that I’m okay and that we’re all okay doesn’t waiver. Even when I’m forgetting, I still know that’s the truth, regardless of what my head’s telling me. So, that’s developed over time, and is really foundational for me over probably the last 10 years.
Miriam Schulman:
And who would you say be the influential thought leaders that have helped you with this journey?
Terry Runyan:
Wow, there’s just so many things I’ve done over the last [inaudible] years. I’m turning 65 this year, actually.
Miriam Schulman:
You look amazing, by the way.
Terry Runyan:
Thank you. It’s the cats, I’m telling you.
Miriam Schulman:
I know. That’s what I’m going to tell my husband.
Terry Runyan:
The more you hang out with cats, the better you look.
Miriam Schulman:
You want a young, hot wife, you got to let me have a cat.
Terry Runyan:
Exactly. Or two.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s right.
Terry Runyan:
So, I used to work with A Course in Miracles, which is an amazing book for turning your mind around. I’ve been involved with Three Principles more recently, and now I’m more non-duality. Pretty much anything that points back at our inherent wellness, our inherent worth, is what interests me at this point, because that whole idea encapsulates where all this journeying has brought me. So, whether we have a great conversation here and it goes perfect and all that, it would be wonderful and a huge bonus if we had this perfect call and everything, and this perfect podcast, but I know I’m okay no matter what happens. And that is something that I’m just so grateful for every day.
Miriam Schulman:
I recently listened to an interview with Julia Cameron. So, she wrote The Artist’s Way, and that was 30 years ago, and I came across it then, 30 years ago. And I read it, and I don’t think I realized until I listened to this interview, actually, that it is a spiritual practice that she talks about in the book. Right now I’m like, I really need to go back to The Artist’s Way, because the only thing I had really retained from when I read it 30 years ago is you have to write three pages.
Terry Runyan:
Right, yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
And I wasn’t receiving all the other gifts that she really puts in there, that you’re really making a request to the universe, how you’re allowing the divine to go through you when you create. I was like, “Wow, these are all messages that I really need to revisit now in this other chapter of my life, in the next phase of my life.” So, by the way, I’m 53. You can’t tell how old–
Terry Runyan:
Well, you look incredible as well, but you will look even better when you get those kitties.
Miriam Schulman:
No, I need the kitties. No, I have to tell people, because the Zoom filter is very flattering. I don’t like to meet people over Skype or Microsoft Teams. That’s what my publisher likes. They like Microsoft Teams. I was like, “Oh dear God, please no. Can’t we just do it on Zoom? I look 10 years younger on Zoom.” Yeah, so that’s why I was just asking you would be your guides, but I wouldn’t have even have thought to say Julia Cameron, because I hadn’t realized how spiritual actually her practices are until I recently listened to that interview and I was like, “Oh, it’s time to go back.”
Terry Runyan:
Well, I’ll have to revisit that because I read that book also back in the day, and I think that we’re so conditioned throughout life, until we have this opening happen, that we do keep going back to the same old way of thinking because it’s habit, it’s conditioning. And it still happens, like I said, for me, but I just see it for what it is. And before I thought it was just true. I thought everything that popped into my head was true, right? And a lot of us do. We believe everything that comes into our head.
Miriam Schulman:
We need a bumper sticker that says, “Not everything you think is true.”
Terry Runyan:
Right. Don’t believe anything you think. So, also I wanted to bring up, oh, now I’m forgetting her name. Big Magic.
Miriam Schulman:
You mean Elizabeth Gilbert?
Terry Runyan:
Yes. I really loved Big Magic because she talks about what you just said about the creativity floating around. We just sort of tap into it and it comes through us, and there’s not that sense of responsibility for the creativity. Your responsibility, if there is one, is to show up and be open, and play. And I just love that.
Miriam Schulman:
So, Elizabeth Gilbert says a lot of things, but what I didn’t know was that Julia Cameron actually said it first. Not to take anything away from Elizabeth Gilbert, that’s a masterpiece of a book that only she could have written, and it doesn’t matter if things have been said in different ways before. But that’s why I said it’s time to go back to look at The Artist’s Way, because she said something about her writing, how I will take care of the quantity and God will take care of the quality.
Terry Runyan:
That’s beautiful.
Miriam Schulman:
I know, right? And I was like, “Huh.”
Terry Runyan:
Yeah. Well, I’ve more recently visited with Big Magic, and I think, too, I will also go back and take a look at The Artist’s Way again.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Big Magic is beautiful.
Terry Runyan:
Yeah. These things are common to humans, these ideas, and they come through a lot of different people in a lot of different ways. And I’m basically sharing around the same thing, it’s just a different voice, a different way of coming through, part of my creativity that flows through me. So, we all have it. We all have a unique way of talking about it and expressing it.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, people need to hear it from you in the way that you’re telling it, and that was, with the book I’m writing, sometimes I would have my own imposter syndrome, “Why do they even need this book?” “Everything I’m saying, it’s been said. Other people have said it, and who am I to write?” I had huge, actually, imposter syndrome. My therapist made extra money from me during the book-writing process. So, yeah, it’s interesting because you think, or at least I thought back when I first started, in each different phase of my career, “When I get to this certain point, I won’t have to deal with those feelings anymore.” And it’s not true. You continue to deal in a different way. In fact, the bigger you get, the bigger game you’re playing, because there’s more people watching.
Terry Runyan:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Terry Runyan:
And our old thinking, our old conditioning wants to make a big deal out of it. It wants to say, “Wow, you’re really popular now, and you better keep that Instagram account up,” or whatever list of things that my thinking says I need to do to be okay. And I see it all as part of this, habits. It’s just stuff I picked up when I was growing up that I thought was true, and I know now that it isn’t, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t pop up just like it used to. It may pop up slightly less now, or it comes through quicker. It passes through quicker, so I don’t spend as much time with it or pay attention to it like I used to.
Miriam Schulman:
What tools do you use to help manage your mind?
Terry Runyan:
Getting back into meditation. I seem to come and go out of that. I try to sit daily, and practice coming back to my breath and noticing thoughts that come up and letting them go through. I think that practice is really just what happens when you’re doing life. You’re going along, and out of the blue, this whole train of thoughts will start taking you down that, “Who am I to be an author? Who am I to be an artist? I’m not an artist. I’m not an author.” And all that stuff that comes up, and off we go to the therapist, right? I’ve been with you on that one.
So, I think that the meditation is helpful in being able to see that thinking process go through, and be able to sit in your own sense of who you are, and see that go through. It’ll bring up feelings, it’ll bring up all this stuff, but see it for what it is. So, that practice has been a major one for me. And connecting with like-minded people is really helpful. Continuing to talk about it, teaching classes and talking about it has been really helpful, and that’s the type of thing that keeps me connected with that.
Miriam Schulman:
What I like about meditation, the meditation at least that I practice, and there’s different kinds, but it’s not so much about trying not to think, but just noticing when you have a thought and then trying to observe that you’re thinking and like a cloud, going, “There’s a cloud. I’m thinking,” and let it go. And after I started doing my meditation practice, and I use the daily Calm app, that’s what I do. Which is good, but then sometimes I’m like, “Well, it’s my phone. I don’t want to be on my phone anymore.
After I started meditating with that and doing that practice of noticing when I’m thinking, my husband, a few months later, he started saying, “Hey, I noticed you don’t seem as angry with me as you used to.” And he was right, that I would get angry, but then I wouldn’t hold on to those angry thoughts, which is what I used to do, is that I would keep making myself have a feeling over and over again and ruminate over it. What I found the most helpful part about meditation is you have thoughts, you have feelings, but I process them and let them go much faster than before I started meditating. So, it has a long term effect.
Terry Runyan:
You get a point of view that’s outside of that habitual pattern of thinking and ruminating.
Miriam Schulman:
Right, because you can observe yourself having a feeling or observe yourself having a thought, and then it helps you recognize, “Oh, it’s just a thought.”
Terry Runyan:
Right.
Miriam Schulman:
Not noticing truth or something in the world.
Terry Runyan:
Right, yes. And thoughts are transient, and they just keep going. The only thing that keeps them alive and keeps the ruminating going is when we don’t see it and we just think it’s true and go down the road with it. And I still go down the road with it, but I recognize it sooner than I used to, and I don’t have to go as far down the road most of the time.
Miriam Schulman:
Hey, if perfectionism or calling yourself an artist has been a challenge for you as well, you’re going to want to check out the other podcast episodes that I’ve done on managing your mind, both solo episodes and those I’ve invited guest experts to chat with me on the topic. To help you sift through all the shows, we’ve curated a mindset playlist just for you. To get your hands on the mindset playlist, go to schulmanart.com/playlist. On that page, you’ll actually see several different curated playlists, but I believe the mindset one is at the bottom. So scroll down and enter your name and email, and we’ll send that playlist straight to your inbox. And now, back to the show.
Okay. So, your book is coming out really soon. I can’t wait to get my hands on it. People can get that in the bookstores and Amazon, right?
Terry Runyan:
Yes. It’s already available in the UK and different places in Europe, and I think it’s here in some places, but I don’t think it’s distributed everywhere yet. On Amazon, I don’t know what they’re saying right now, but it changes every day when that book’s going to be in. I wish I could give a firm date, but it’s been held back by the whole COVID backup with shipping and that. I am going to get some in my shop and sell some signed copies there and that should be maybe next week. Hopefully. Fingers crossed.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So by the time this airs, next week will be in the past. So, we’re time traveling. So this is being published either in May or even June, I have to double check. So, hopefully by then, they’ll be able to get the book wherever they are. And again, the name of the book is Painting Happiness with Terry Runyan. And we will include a link to that in the show notes, which is schulmanart.com/195.
Terry Runyan:
Excellent.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. By the way, don’t forget, if you like this episode, then you’ll have to check out my free mindset playlist. We’ve curated the podcast episodes that focus on managing your mind. So, if imposter syndrome or perfectionism or calling yourself an artist has been a struggle for you and you liked what we talked about here today, you’re going to love those other episodes. Go to schulmanart.com/playlist. And by the way, if you’re a watercolor artist or you want to be, and you want to get the complete supply list of all the watercolor supplies I use to paint, whether those are realistic portraits or other watercolors, you’re going to want to make sure you get your hands on that. So just go to schulmanart.com/supplies. And don’t worry, we’re going to link all these things in the show notes today, so you can go there and grab everything you want. They’re going to be all linked, schulmanart.com/195.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So Terry, do you have any last words for my listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Terry Runyan:
I just encourage everyone to get into their studio or to their typewriter or with their camera and to play for five minutes a day, to stay connected with their creativity, to keep that conversation going. And notice it when you have something come up that says you’re blocked, or you don’t feel inspired. That’s part of the habits of thought that go through. The fact of the matter is we all are creative. Creativity is just there, whether or not we feel it or not. If we’re not feeling it, it’s only because our thinking is going around and telling us that we’re blocked or that we don’t have that talent, but we can ignore that thinking and realize that our creativity is always available to us.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that.
Terry Runyan:
Starting in is a big way to find that.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. So, thanks so much for taking the time to be here with us today, Terry.
Terry Runyan:
Thank you.
Miriam Schulman:
All right, everyone. I will see you the same place, same time next week. Stay inspired.
Speaker 2:
Thank you for listening to the Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram, @schulmanart, and of course, on schulmanart.com.
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