THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Serena Hicks:
There is a client at every price point. There is a client at every single price point. There’s no amount, I mean, what was it? Miami Art Basel where somebody sold a banana for a million dollars or rotting banana. Somebody bought that. I mean, I have judgment. I have thoughts and feelings, like who would do that? But I’m like, “Hey, somebody with eyes wide open consenting adult spent a million dollars for that piece of art.” So, there is a client at every single price point and there is a critic at every single price point.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Serena Hicks:
So, when someone says that’s too expensive, I try to remind my clients, I’ve obviously heard it too, like “Okay. That’s just the critic at that price point. There’s a handful of clients at that price point. There’s a handful of critics at that price point. You can never price low enough to not hear that’s too expensive.” Even free things. People are like, “Well, that’s not convenient timing for me.” We can never price low enough to satisfy. There are some humans who just love walking around sort of complaining. It’s fine. It’s not a problem. We just don’t have to believe that’s too expensive.
Announcer:
It’s The Inspiration Place podcast with artist, Miriam Schulman. Welcome to The Inspiration Place podcast, an art world inside a podcast for artists by an artist, where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the arts behind the art. And now, your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, hey there, my friend. This is Miriam Schulman, your curator of inspiration. And you’re listening to episode 214 of The Inspiration Place podcast. I’m so grateful that you’re here. Today, we’re talking all about money mindset. Now, before we dive into today’s interview, I wanted to talk to you about your own mindset. And let’s see if you suffer from any of these money mindset blocks, because a lot of people don’t know they have them.
So, let’s start with a biggie. Have you hesitated to focus on your art or go deep in a style because you’re questioning your self-worth or your worthiness of your art. If so, you have money mindset blocks. If you heard me say double your prices or raise your prices and you thought, “Miriam, that would never work for me because,” whatever reason you came up with, even if it sounds true to you, it’s because you have money mindset blocks.
And if you’ve hesitated to invest in your business, whether that was a monthly website fee or a coaching class that will teach you the skills you need to sell more art, because you’re not sure if you’re worth it, if you’re not sure if your art is worth it, well, then you have a money mindset block.
Now, if you suspect you have any of these money mindset blocks and they’re sabotaging your results, I want to help you fix them. You have to check out my Artist Incubator program. That is one of the things we do inside there. We are going to push through all your starving artists thinking and combine it with strategies that will actually work.
So, to check out the program, you can go to schulmanart.com/biz as in B-I-Z. But if you haven’t yet watched my masterclass, I highly recommend you do so. It’s very valuable. I’ll help you uncover which mindset mistakes you have that are sabotaging your art business. So, to go fix that today, go to schulmanart.com/sellmoreart. All right. Now on with today’s show.
Today’s guest is all about big, happy money. It’s not about the money of course. It’s never about the money. It’s about how truth telling freedom and rejecting the old patriarchal programming that has proven harmful for exactly all of us. You creating and having big happy money is about radical self-love, radical service to others, and some serious pleasure activism.
Let’s change the world and have fun and burn the patriarchy down, but with great love and tenderness. Let go of your struggle story and replace it with an allowing that requires you to connect with yourself, the divine and fellow humans and creatures kiddies too, on a whole new level.
To help us do that, let’s welcome former MTV Network special events team member, Tyra Banks behind the scenes Emmy Award Winner and Martha Stewart private event planner, Serena Hicks.
Serena Hicks:
What a fun intro. I love that so much. Thank you so much for introducing me, Miriam, to everyone. And hello everybody.
Miriam Schulman:
Serena, where are you in the world? You’re not in New York, right?
Serena Hicks:
Nope. I fled. I’m in Austin, Texas. I’m a native Texan and I’m very happy to live in Austin, Texas.
Miriam Schulman:
It’s a little blue bubble in Austin. I mean, in Texas.
Serena Hicks:
You know what? I’m going to quote a young activist who recently said this. I’m like, there’s a lot of blue people in Texas. We are currently a voter-suppressed state and we are working on untangling that. There’s a lot of blue in Texas. There’s also a lot of red lines that have gotten us exactly where we are right now. But yeah. I do choose Austin for the reasons you can imagine, as I talk about burning your patriarchy.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. I’ve never been to Austin, but it is on my list of, I really like to go. I’d like to have an excuse to go there places.
Serena Hicks:
I highly recommend it. I do not recommend it in the month of August.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Serena Hicks:
It’s like Satan’s lair. It’s just so hot, you can’t think straight. I can’t think straight anyways. It’s like 105 every day with humidity.
Miriam Schulman:
But you got the air conditioning pumping now?
Serena Hicks:
Hundred percent. It’s definitely that is one thing. But I’ve also noticed, I don’t know, I guess I’ve just gotten into nature lately, being in refrigerated air exactly all day and going from a refrigerated home to a refrigerated car. I’m like, I don’t love it. I will still sit on my patio for five minutes. I will also sweat, but there’s something almost just unnatural about refrigerated air all the time. Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So, I’m loving the black behind you. So, for those of you who will see this video on Instagram, what color is that paint color behind you?
Serena Hicks:
It’s like this hunter-forest green. It’s like a deep, deep green. And I love it because it, I think adds them green to my home, but I like the depth, the darkness of it as well.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s nice. Is that Benjamin Moore, do you know?
Serena Hicks:
I have no idea. I literally am in an apartment complex and it was like this thing you could do literally for $100, talk about Happy Money, BIG Happy Money for $100 before I move in, they would do a color accent wall in any room. And then I’m not responsible for when I leave, it’s just done. None of the normal brouhaha. “And make sure you paint it back when you leave.”
Miriam Schulman:
Right. It was just that’s part of the deal?
Serena Hicks:
One hundred. Hundred bucks.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s fantastic. And now with the cat. So, for those who don’t know, Serena has a very elaborate cat climbing wall also. So, who’s responsible for repairing that to match the color?
Serena Hicks:
So, I am obsessed with TaskRabbit, even more BIG Happy Money. And my very favorite TaskRabbit who’s been over, who actually installed the whole cat wall and has done other things. He came over and removed major things, moved them exactly two feet to the right and then sparkled filled the plaster hole in the walls. And it was his idea, which I thought was brilliant. He was like, “Oh, well, you know your apartment complex will have this paint downstairs. Just get a little piece of it and I’ll paint over it.”
And then because they still offer this paint a wall a color. So, it’s just a matter of me being in the office being like, can I get a cup of paint? And if they say no, surely, they can tell me what color it is since this is literally what they get paid to do.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, because it’s like when you have the accent wall, you can choose between whatever it was, 10 colors?
Serena Hicks:
There are four colors, only four, exactly.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, that’s four colors.
Serena Hicks:
And they still do it. And talk about BIG Happy Money. I was like, wait, do I understand this for $100, my rent is over 3,000 a month. So, this is not a significant chunk. It was painted.
Miriam Schulman:
And a gallon of paint. A gallon of paint is like 50 bucks.
Serena Hicks:
Oh my god. And it was when we moved in, it was done. It was just, here is a home that does not look quite so gray. So, yeah. I love it.
Miriam Schulman:
So cool. And it just looks so powerful as your backdrop.
Serena Hicks:
Thank you.
Miriam Schulman:
I love it. We have so much to talk about. I hope I pissed a lot of people off with my intro, by the way.
Serena Hicks:
Good job.
Miriam Schulman:
I love when I get hate mails. Like yesterday, I was like, what do you mean mother earth? I was like, oh, my god, I’m going to start reading my hate mail online, like Ramit Sethi. This is what I got today.
Serena Hicks:
I think that might be an entire episode. Your favorite emails.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s so true, my favorite hate mails. Like are you trying to get me here, because I’m just entertained by you right now. And I understand you’re trying to invite me to some sort of argument, but I’m not biting.
Serena Hicks:
Got you to do and then [inaudible].
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Exactly. I got too much to do then argue with strangers on the internet.
Serena Hicks:
Just changing the world. Pardon me.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So, Serena, I’ve heard so many good things about you from our own Shaun Roney, who is the life coach inside my program, The Artist Incubator. She was talking about you. And then you also came up because Candice Davis, who I hired as my book coach, had mentioned you. I was like, oh, so for the first of all, I introduced the two of them. I said, you two have to meet.
And then I was like, sought you out online. I was like, and I have to meet Serena and invite her to the podcast. And I really loved everything that you’re talking about on your podcast, especially. And this is where we’re going to start eliminating some of the language that some of us use that sound like so harmless, but really it isn’t. Do you want to use that as a jumping off point?
Serena Hicks:
I would love it. I loved it. You mentioned the number one thing that I hear that makes everything in me tense up and I’m like, everybody stopped doing this because it’s not even about the money. Thank you for being so clear on that in the intro. Money is never actually about money is when people say, and I think it’s a social norm, but when people say, “Oh, I can’t afford that or that’s too expensive.”
Miriam Schulman:
I hate that, too, by the way.
Serena Hicks:
It’s just disempowering language.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. And I tell my daughter, “Don’t ever say that.”
Serena Hicks:
Never, never. It’s just disempowering as in, I mean, there’s facts. I’m not suggesting we can all afford everything. So, instead of, “I can’t afford that or that’s too expensive.” “I choose not to prioritize that at this time” to me just feels so much different. If I were to see, I am making this up everybody, but if I were to see a $300,000 yacht, technically if you look at things like my numbers, I can’t afford that, but I would never think or say that.
I would say, “I choose not to prioritize that at this time, because if my life depended on it, I could prioritize it. If it was a life or death experience, I could sell everything, borrow, beg, borrow, steal, whatever it took. Obviously, I choose not to prioritize that at this time.” But to simply say that allows us to be in our power.
It’s also, I don’t love the words. We talk about victim mindset versus not being a victim. Anytime we’re saying, “That’s too expensive, I can’t,” we’re anchoring our identity, anchoring our experience to a story of I can’t or that’s not available. And even if it is factually true, I just find it so much more powerful to live in the, yeah, that’s not something I choose to invest in at this time. That’s not something I choose to prioritize. That’s not something I will spend great piles of effort to try to make happen. To just speak that truth instead I think is so much more powerful.
And then another thing that I’ve talked about, and I’m assuming you’ve probably heard this on the podcast is there’s such magic in the difference between saying, “Well, I only have $10,000 left in checking” versus “I already have $10,000 left in checking.” By the way, I meant savings.
But whatever it is, whatever the amount of number, only insert your number versus already. I have clients tell me, “I only have five clients.” They are living a different experience from the same person in the similar situation says, “I already have five paying clients.”
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. All right. I want to back up a moment and make this really specific for my artists in the group who not only maybe saying some of these things, but are hearing these things as well. So, with the, “I can’t afford it.” What I always say is, “I choose not to spend my money on that.” And that is the absolute truth. Like a Chanel bag $3,000. Yeah. I could probably find the money for that. I’m sure, yeah, I have it. But because it’s so distasteful to me to spend money on that, I choose not to. I choose it.
Serena Hicks:
It’s in your power. And it’s all that you.
Miriam Schulman:
And when you choose something, when it’s a choice, like you said, it’s empowering. The other thing, and I feel like it’s a whole set, like a whole different category, the “it’s too expensive.” I think that a lot of times the artists who listen to the podcast and who I coach, they automatically jump to the conclusion that when somebody chooses not to spend money on their thing, that is because it’s “too expensive.” Let’s talk about that.
Serena Hicks:
Okay. Let’s start with, there’s a client at every price point. There is a client at every single price point. There’s no amount. I mean, what was it? Miami Art Basel where somebody sold a banana for a million dollars, a rotting banana. Somebody bought that. I mean, I have judgment. I have thoughts and feelings, like who would do that? But I’m like, “Hey, somebody with eyes wide open, consenting adult spent a million dollars for that piece of art.” So, there is a client at every single price point and there is a critic at every single price point.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Serena Hicks:
So, when someone says that’s too expensive, I try to remind my clients. I’ve obviously heard it too. Like okay, that’s just the critic at that price point. There’s a handful of clients at that price point. There’s a handful of critics at that price point. You can never price low enough to not hear that’s too expensive.
Even free things. People are like, “Well, that’s not convenient timing for me.” We can never price low enough to satisfy. There are some humans who just love walking around sort of complaining. It’s fine. It’s not a problem. We just don’t have to believe that’s too expensive.
I also want to offer, especially for your clients, it is such a social norm. So, patriarchy approved to be like, “Oh, that’s too expensive,” just like it’s patriarchy approved for a woman to say, “Oh, I just hate my thighs,” as a way to spark conversation. It’s just such a social norm excuse slash a woman being, “I hate my thighs” just as a conversation starter. Do you really? And I’m sorry if you do, but it’s just something our society, “Oh, I’m so busy. I don’t have time for that.” It’s just such an easy thing for people to say what they really mean is, “No, thank you.”
Miriam Schulman:
They choose not to.
Serena Hicks:
Yeah. They choose not to. And half the time they choose not to just say, “No, thank you” and stand in the power of that.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s right.
Serena Hicks:
They think it’s a polite thing to say. And sometimes they mean it to your point, like, oh, it’s too expensive. But what they really mean is I would never spend money on me. I would never spend money on my joy. And they don’t know how to just say that.
Miriam Schulman:
And what I like to remind people is that a lot of the time inside a spending decision, people are not trying to decide if what you are selling, if you, Serena Hicks, is worth it, if what you’re selling is worth it. They’re trying to decide if they are worth spending their money on to enjoy this thing that you’re offering.
Serena Hicks:
Hundred percent, without fail. We’re all living in our own little universe. And that’s why I love talking about money. Money is not about money. It’s about taking up space. It’s about feeling worthy. We’ve been socialized to believe you are worthy if you have money, but not too much money. There’s shame in our culture if you don’t have enough money. There’s shame in our culture if you have too much money and all the lines are blurred.
So, it’s just this big cluster fuck. Just how can we make people feel ashamed and uneasy at all times? So, that’s part of where I love working with money. When it’s like, we divorce ourselves, our sense of worth and our value in the world from how much money we do or do not have, then it’s like we’ve stepped outside of the matrix to get fully cheesy for everybody. But it’s like, “Wait, hold, it’s this whole different thing.”
So, exactly to your point, okay, I always get sad or some version of ragey when I hear a client say, “The client told me I’m totally worth it. And they see that I’m worth it, but they just don’t have the money it’s too expensive.”
And so, then it’s like the artist or the coach in my world, they believe that. And I’m like, “Oh friends, they gave you a lot of words. But what they really mean is I choose not to prioritize this or I just choose not to do this.” And instead of standing in their power and having a healthy boundary, they’re like, “Let me say these nice things.” Or let me sometimes, instead of saying something nice attack, I we’ve all heard of.
And I’d get ragey when coaches, which I think is a form of artistry like your artists, get messages from, “I would love to buy your stuff, but it’s too expensive.” And it’s like, how is it that this person took the time out to tell this artist. I would, but I can’t because of you, like, wow.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Serena Hicks:
There’s a lack of adult ownership in that person’s world that they feel the need to take time out to effectively shame an artist.
Miriam Schulman:
I want to circle back to something you said earlier. And that was about there being something at every level. So, an artist I was speaking to just the other day was sharing with me that her highest price artwork is $100. I was like, “Oh, how long does it take you to make eight hours?” And she has a full-time job. That’s not her art, obviously. Because I said to her, “Well, you do know that if you painted all day long and sold everything you made, you’re on track to making $24,000 a year. My teaching you to sell more is not going to help you right now.”
And so, we were talking about $100. She said, well, she doesn’t think people can afford more. I says, “When was the last time you went shoe shopping?” So, I gave her a homework assignment. I was like, this is not a client. This was a prospect. I said, “Go to a shoe store, and see what people are spending on shoes right now. Most of them are more than $100.”
Serena Hicks:
The vast majority. And here’s what’s wild. Okay. I say it two different ways. The first is we don’t see life as it is, we see it as we are. Now, I’ll say it a different way. When we think people won’t spend money on this, we then only attract people who won’t spend money on that.
Miriam Schulman:
And it’s really, the truth is, the truth is the person I was speaking to would not spend more than $100 on herself. And that’s why she believes that no one else will spend more than $100 on themselves.
Serena Hicks:
Exactly, exactly, exactly that, which is, that is like it’s so fun playing with money. I’m like, money’s not about money. We see the world as we are not as it is. So, for the people who are, and I used to be in that boat, no one will spend money on this, it’s just what you said.
And I also want to make clear because I don’t think it was in the intro and this part might be helpful for some of your listeners. I filed a bankruptcy in 2008. I had just enough money to survive for most of my life until 40 when I pulled my shit together. And I pulled my shit together, I woke up grieving my big brother who had passed away. I’d just been pushed out of a job. And I was living on my 401(k) and what was left.
And I thought at 40 years old, I have done some really cool shit. I have a good heart. I’m not stupid. How is it at 40 years old, I’m looking at the last $2,000 on the planet available to me. And that was when I really started to divorce my sense of self from money. Because I started at MTV News, the documentaries department, and they only had one amount of money that you were paid as a production system. It was just a take it or leave it situation because they could. There were, of course, everybody wanted to work there. And it was $100 a day and this is in 2000s. So, that’s $24,000 before New York City taxes in 2000 annually.
For those who were like, did she live on 13,000 a year? And the answer is yes. Plus, credit card debt. And part of why I love doing this work is I did a U-turn if you will in my money mindset and in my financial situation.
So, it’s not that I’ve never been that person who didn’t spend money. I literally remember maybe four years ago, not as an exaggeration. So, in 2018, actually it was 2018 being in Target, shopping to figure out cleaning supplies. I needed new cleaning supplies, but buying the one sponge was the better plan than buying the five pack. Even though the five pack makes the sponge is exponentially cheaper because of I did not have enough credit. I did not have enough. It was that.
So, it was really hard for me to break into. And obviously it didn’t happen in exactly an instant. But to come to understand we attract what we expect. And I think that’s why my money mindset is so controversial. It’s so easy to poopoo that and be like, “This sounds stupid.” And yet, as I learned, because just learning how to read or learning a new language, it’s the thing we learn. Or maybe I should say remembered to ask for pricing that was sustainable. That did not put me within 10 cents of my life financially.
And by sustainable, it also meant clients got a different experience. As in, I wasn’t showing up sleep deprived because I was driving Lyft or Uber half the night. I was showing up. And for all of the artists, I mean, sorry, I’m making a face. I know everybody can’t see me right now. Some of our artists, I think so many artists have been conditioned like the starving artists is a social norm. And I think it’s easy for that to be a badge of honor. And I offer that it’s optional. And the world is so much better served, especially right now as we record this in August of 2022, we need all of the art.
Miriam Schulman:
One hundred percent.
Serena Hicks:
We starve for art. It’s why we’re all acting like fucking idiots all the time. We need all the art. And we need the artists to be able to pay rent and feed themselves so they can make more art.
Miriam Schulman:
Some of the best art, so I’ve been looking at a lot of art on purpose that has to do with war. I’m not done with my research. So, forgive me. The three paintings I have are all done by men, just because I haven’t finished my research.
So, we have Rubens, we have Miro, we have Picasso’s Guernica. But then I came across yesterday, a poem by Joy Harrow about war that really moved me. And it was all about how it was worth it just to enjoy this one free morning. And it was just so beautiful. It’s not even about making art necessarily. It’s about war. It’s about making art that is meaning to our lives. And that’s what us artists are being called to do.
Serena Hicks:
Yes. And it so smashes the patriarchy. The patriarchy has taught us to hustle. The patriarchy has taught us to undercharge. Make sure we have a day job, sell art for two little money, drive Lyft or Uber, whatever it takes to make the ends meet. That is the patriarchy’s plan for most female non-binary people of color.
I mean, let’s just look at the laughable if you’re in the mood discrepancy between the sort of idea that we’re all taught, working hard is what makes money. And I’m like, “Okay, blue collar doesn’t pay terribly well terribly often and that is working hard.” There are a million billionaires who I’m not mad at. This is not shade, but I love Richard Branson. So, I’m just going to borrow him really quickly.
He’s very happy to explain. He works about two hours a day. Granted he’s using his brain, but that is my point. If we think of musicians, also artists, like musicians who are, thank god, channeling the divine and writing these songs. So, many of them, one song makes a pile of money and certainly enough to live off of. As in enough to you don’t have to be a multi-millionaire Jon Bon Jovi to be a successful artist.
And it serves the patriarchy every time we are undercharging, overworking, the idea of taking a morning off is interesting, like shocking, confusing. It’s so subversive to stand in our power and in our worthiness, and especially, I think for artists to be like, this is art. You can make your own or you can pay this fair price. And just attract people who are thrilled to say “No, no, I’m happy to pay that fair price.”
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. So, now I’m going to share something that I hear and I bet you hear it too, that I mostly hear from women. And that is, I don’t care about the money.
Serena Hicks:
Yeah. That’s the patriarchy’s favorite. That’s great. That’s really great. Because while you don’t care, unless someone tells me that and they have 10 million cash and sorry, this is in 2022 US dollars, unless someone says, “I, that’s stupid, don’t care about money, “and 10 million cash sitting in their checking account. I offer, they have been socialized to think of it, like demonize it to avoid it because to be in partnership and work with money eyes wide open, not glorifying it, not demonizing is to be powerful.
It’s just like a woman in sexuality. There’s a reason the patriarchy has shamed women. You don’t get sexual desires. Your partner gets sexual desires and you should look pretty or be sexy for your partner. But a woman or non-binary or trans woman, any female type creature that defies the patriarchy by having sexual desires, it is threatening to systems of oppression. And economic oppression is just another system of oppression.
Women and people of color were not allowed jobs. We know factually women and people of color are still getting paid less than the average white man for the same job. So, I rage when I hear money doesn’t matter because I’m like, how convenient for the patriarchy. Because money buys medicine, money buys housing, money doesn’t just pay for emergency supplies. It pays for everything we’re talking about, art, vacations, mental healthcare.
So, I’m like, how does money not matter? How does that work? Because when I was worried about paying rent and endlessly stressed, that background, ambient siren, that I’m sure some of your clients are unfortunately familiar with, that was how’s rent going to be paid in three more weeks or two more weeks or tomorrow. When all of that ambient siren stress of only just having enough money was my life, it consumed me. I wasn’t making a lot of art. I wasn’t burning the patriarchy down. I sure shit wasn’t donating at the level that I do now. I wasn’t present for my family or friends. I was in survival mode.
And for those who are like, “Well, I am actually very, very comfortable, Serena. I have 9 million, $900,000 and money doesn’t matter to me.” I offer again, if you are in a privileged position, money is still power.
One thing that’s super important to me in everyone in my orbit, we pay fair wages. No fucking way do I go to the cheap nail salon. I used to, and I’m not shaming you if you do. But I go to the one in town, that everybody gets paid a living wage. As often as possible, I buy groceries from local farmers. I will tell you right now, I go to Whole Foods is not the devil, but it’s not perfect.
But as often as possible, I pay, obviously my business it’s 100% possible, but as often as possible as a human, I make sure I’m paying a living wage. I no longer glorify clothing that costs a dollar 25 for a top. And no doubt involve child labor in a third world country. I want no part of that.
And if that’s where someone is, no shame, I’m not here to shame anybody. I’m just saying don’t tell me it’s better that your shirt costs less than mine and children were involved. No thank you. I would rather buy a shirt from a human or at least whenever possible, a fair company.
And by the way, at this point in my life, my business has made $1.5 million in under three years and I still love a good consignment shop. I love, I’m like I would much rather get something that is gorgeous and isn’t new to me, but is new, I mean, it’s new to me than to glorify if you will.
Miriam Schulman:
My mom and I like Housing Works. So, I believe it.
Serena Hicks:
I planned one of their events many years ago when I lived in New York City, their annual fundraiser.
Miriam Schulman:
Their money goes to AIDS charity according to my mom who sometimes gets things wrong.
Serena Hicks:
Yeah. So, they were one of the very first, especially when the AIDS crisis was in fact a crisis. And so, many people who had AIDS, they’re being turned away from housing. So, they specifically provided housing, not just for people who were sick for AIDS, but people who’d been diagnosed for AIDS. So, very active in the LGBTQI community. Way before that was cool. Housing Works as OG original. That is so awesome.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. So, we’d like to buy things there, because we know our money is going to something really worthy. And then we can have a fun bargain hunt. I have so many things to unpack and what you just downloaded here.
Serena Hicks:
Ranted. I will rant you all if you will.
Miriam Schulman:
All right. So, first of all, I completely agree with the, and I find this true more with American woman, by the way, with that whole puritanical, it’s not cool to desire money, it’s not cool to desire power, it’s not cool to desire sex, it’s like that whole triad together. And when I was writing my book, one of the editors says, “Do you have evidence of this statement you just made?” I was like, “I found it.” I was like, here we go. How much do you want? Let’s break it.
Serena Hicks:
How much time?
Miriam Schulman:
How much time do we have? The other thing that you said that really needs addressing is, and because I know people, I can already hear the trolls coming for me. Well for art, it shouldn’t be about the money.
Serena Hicks:
What?
Miriam Schulman:
Let me make something perfectly clear. You don’t have to make art to be about the money, but if you’re selling it, it better be about the money. You don’t have to create it for the money, but if you’re selling it, it’s about the money.
Serena Hicks:
Yeah. Are artists not supposed to eat? Because right back to where we were, our artists supposed to have to rely on a spouse or a parent or a sibling.
Miriam Schulman:
But I mean if you want to make it a hobby, peace out. If you want to get a-
Serena Hicks:
Totally.
Miriam Schulman:
… patron, a sugar daddy, good for you. But if you want to make a living as an artist, you better care about the money.
Serena Hicks:
Which I would argue if you want to be, and now I’m going to, sorry everybody, feel free to direct this one with my name on it. But if you are a devoted artist, if you work with the muse, if you work with the energy of whatever possesses you to create gorgeous, gorgeous shit. And by gorgeous, whether sculptor, painter, dancer, musician, if you are an artist and you are devoted to being a channel, to bringing what comes to you and however it comes to you forward, how would you not get paid for that? So, that could be a priority other than you just being a human.
Because when you have to juggle a second, if not third job, or as I said, rely on. That’s the beauty of oh, money doesn’t matter to me. Again, conditioning as we’re saying that the patriarchy wants women who require a spouse, a parent or something to pay their bills. Independent money-making does not uphold systems of oppression that need people dependent.
And that is where it’s like this isn’t about money. This is about personal power and authenticity and being devoted to the art. Like I want to offer Beyoncé and Celine Dion, two of my favorites, that might seem weird. But one of the reasons I love them so fucking much as artists is they take their art seriously. They both could have sang in church.
And maybe some of you guys think that would be better, but I love my Beyoncé and my Celine Dion. I am so grateful each of them decided singing in church was an option and it wasn’t enough for them that they wanted to sing. They wanted their songs to be heard globally.
And I get the chills because I’m like, “Well, thank god, I live for both of them.” I’m glad they weren’t just like, “Yeah, it’s cool. I’m an artist.” They were not hobbyists, which nothing is wrong with that as you said, but they decided the way they wanted a global impact was to like.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, let’s go down the list of why if you are trying to make not only a living, but the best living possible with your art, what happens? Number one, like you already said, you’re able to sustain your art because you don’t have to take on another job. Your art will be better because you’re able to give it your all. Number two, if you’re putting all your effort into marketing it, more people know about it and can actually enjoy your art. Then it touches so many more people.
Serena Hicks:
Yeah. It changes lives and hearts. Well, heart because that’s what art does. Hearts and lives in that order. Also, I want to be clear. Marketing is just loving on people. Marketing is just showing people what is possible. When my big brother was newly dead and I was on the last few thousand dollars of my life after getting kicked out of a job and single at 40, I remember I started late night drinking, eating and scrolling Instagram. And people’s stories about coaches.
I was almost like inspirational porn. And people sometimes make fun of that, but I’m like, it changed my whole life. It told me that where I was didn’t have to be where I stayed. People’s true stories were like lighthouses. I felt like I was a ship coming into a harbor and I saw a lighthouse and that’s all marketing ever is.
I just got new art as we discussed. It hasn’t arrived yet for this home office space and somebody posted on Instagram. I didn’t realize they made art. It’s Sarah Seidelmann by the way. She’s a coach and artist. And she posted something about my art and I was like, “She does art? I had no idea.” Three days later, I have ordered and I’m stupid excited.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s so great.
Serena Hicks:
Stupid excited.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m going to look her up. And if I find put her in the show notes.
Serena Hicks:
Sarah Seidelmann, I didn’t know it was an option. So, for each of you guys also, I follow Chani Nicholas, astrologer extraordinaire. She posted something yesterday. And she tagged the artist. It was like, choose your fighter. It’s hilarious. And anyways, that person has an Etsy shop and I noticed they have a sale that starts at noon tomorrow. I literally put an alert in my calendar. You guys, clients are everywhere.
I didn’t function this way when I was barely able to make rent. And now it’s no brainer. And not because I want to support artists. I’m happy to support artists, guys. I’m super selfish. I want this shit in my house. That’s what I want. But I see the marketing, I’m like, woo, I like that. I want that. Yes, please. How do I get it?
Miriam Schulman:
All right. We you’ve dropped so many value bombs on this. Do you have any other sentences we need to light before we come home?
Serena Hicks:
I want to bring home too, guys.
Miriam Schulman:
This not your closing thoughts, but…
Serena Hicks:
Okay. Not my closing thoughts.
Miriam Schulman:
Not your closing thoughts. But we started the conversation by saying we’re going to eliminate the negative language. So, we said, it’s too expensive. I can’t afford it. It’s not about the money or I don’t care about the money. There was four statements that I missed one that we went over?
Serena Hicks:
Oh, I only have X amount of money.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. I only have that.
Serena Hicks:
Or I only have X amount of clients.
Miriam Schulman:
There we go. That’s five. Instead of I’ve already.
Serena Hicks:
Yeah. Have X amount of clients. You guys, I’ll tell you when I got rich. When I didn’t bounce a check for a full calendar month, I literally remember in my morning gratitude journaling. It’s been a calendar month and I have not overdrowned my account. I am already rich. I know that makes some people laugh at me. I don’t give a shit. I’m now rich. So, I don’t care.
But my point is I became “wealthy” because I let myself feel wealthy when I suddenly had, I’ve had $500 in savings for a whole month now. That’s pathetic to some people. For me, I was like, nope, this is progress. And I will celebrate every single inch of it. I was in already energy. I already accomplished this. When I started selling coaching, it was like, I already have a client. I already have three clients. I already have my first year of coaching under my belt.
Miriam Schulman:
Wow. All right, Serena, if people listening want to join your Boom Boom Room.
Serena Hicks:
Yeah. The Boom Boom Room.
Miriam Schulman:
Where the patriarchal programming about money goes boom.
Serena Hicks:
Boom.
Miriam Schulman:
Tell us about that. You like my dramatic actress acting?
Serena Hicks:
No, I do.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. I should come to every podcast now and introduce you.
Serena Hicks:
Please. And for those who will see the video, I’m like clapping like a child. I’m like, boom. That’s exactly it.
Miriam Schulman:
Boom.
Serena Hicks:
How [inaudible]. Boom. Okay. So, the Boom Boom Room is a lifetime access group. It’s course plus coaching plus community. So, I’m teaching on concepts. One of them is when you see your pricing as expensive, people around you will see it as expensive too. And when you see your pricing as expansive, people around you will also be like, “That is expansive too.”
So, same, same with art, just as we’ve been saying. If someone’s like, “Oh, a $500 painting is so expensive,” that’s what they’re going to find in their people. And when someone’s like, “$500 is a lot of money. That’s expansive.” When somebody decides they’re spending $500, it’s going to expand to their self-concept and obviously their space to have that piece of art. Then they start attracting people who are like, “Whoa, yeah, that’s a lot of money. And that’s the kind of expense I’m looking for.”
Miriam Schulman:
And by the way, I agree with that. I call it aspirational. You want your art prices to be aspirational.
Serena Hicks:
Love it. We want people to step into it.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. Just the same way some ladies are proud of their Chanel bags and they talk about it quite often.
Serena Hicks:
Or Louis Vuitton, what is that? Everybody’s obsessed.
Miriam Schulman:
You don’t have Chanel or Louis Vuitton, right? I’m not insulted.
Serena Hicks:
No, you guys-
Miriam Schulman:
No judgment, no judgment.
Serena Hicks:
No judgment. My bag is $250, literally $250
Miriam Schulman:
I have one of those belt bags. It’s all I wear. My mother’s like, are you bringing that to the wedding? I don’t know.
Serena Hicks:
Maybe.
Miriam Schulman:
Maybe I’ll get one with sequins on it. Okay. So, how do they join the Boom Boom Room?
Serena Hicks:
Boom Boom Room. Meet me on serenahicks.com. Or you could just go to bighappymoney.com if Serena Hicks is like, but how does this one spell that? And sign up for my email list. So, the Boom Boom Room is brand new. So, currently, I’ve been working with people in a mastermind, which is really sort of an advanced container.
And I wanted something that was much more for people who were like, “Okay, I want to be in a loving, healthy, easy relationship with money. I want to fundamentally have and know that I have enough. I am a steward of money for people who already or want to believe, no, I’m an excellent steward of money in this world.” And absolutely want to be crystal clear on how they are stewarding money. Back to as I said, we only pay fair wages around here. We advocate for others to be paid fair wages.
It’s not just about any one individual. It’s about us. Now that I have money and only ever increasingly more, I throw my weight around only increasingly more. Everybody be excited for everyone. Inclusivity, not just equal rights. And you guys know I live in Texas and we’re under attack. There’s so much, sorry, I get choked up and excited and I can’t use my words when I get excited.
The ripple out effect, empowered women empower women. And the ripple out effect of people taking, owning and wielding their power, which includes stewarding money. As in making it, receiving it, giving it, spending it, all of those things, not being afraid of it, not abdicating personal responsibility to their partner or their parents or the stock market or the economy being personally like, no, no, I’m the captain of this ship. It’s a game changer.
And so, we’re talking about history and also the intersection between money making, having, and stewarding and feminism, gender identity, sexual identity, religious identity, as an example, just a quickie women. This is also true for people of color, but we’ll just borrow right here. Women couldn’t get a business loan until what was it, 1984 in their name?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. You cannot have credit cards and yeah.
Serena Hicks:
Yeah. And then the story is like women, aren’t good with money. Women literally didn’t have access unless husband or brother or dad signed off. So, is it women aren’t good with money or women have historically and systematically and told, “You’re not good with money and you’re not allowed to have money. And we’re going to give you higher interest rates while we pay you less.” Then conveniently [inaudible] teach you-
Miriam Schulman:
And you can’t make choices about your body, either.
Serena Hicks:
Same thing. It’s all the same. That’s exactly it.
Miriam Schulman:
[inaudible]. Let’s just say it. And haters come to me. I’m ready for you.
Serena Hicks:
No. I’m with you.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m ready.
Serena Hicks:
I’ll tag team you on that.
Miriam Schulman:
You can also unsubscribe if you don’t like what I’m saying. I invite you.
Serena Hicks:
You need personal power.
Miriam Schulman:
I invite you to unfollow me if you don’t like what I have to say. All right. So, we will include that all that in the show notes, which is schulman.com/214, wherever you’re listening. There should be a link to hop over to my website or just go there. You’ll find the links to everything we talked about over there.
And don’t forget, if you liked this episode and you want to work on your money mindset blocks with the help of a mindset maven and combine that with strategies that will actually help you sell more art, well then you have to check out The Artist Incubator program. To join it or learn more, go to schulmanart.com/biz, biz as in B as in boy, I as in ice cream, Z as in zebra.
But if you haven’t yet watched my masterclass, that will help you uncover your mindset mistake. So, you can either fix them on your own or join me and get my help. So, if you have money mindset mistakes that are sabotaging your art business, you’re not sure what they are or maybe you are, and you need a little help, let’s go that fix today. Head on over to schulmanart.com/sellmoreart. Serena, do you have any last words for our listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Serena Hicks:
I love that you gave me a heads up that this was going to happen. And I was like, well, what do I want to say today? And I think it’s this, settling for crumbs will keep you hungry. And too often women, people of color non-binary humans too often, too many of us settle for crumbs. Like, “Oh, okay, well, if I can sell this for $10, that’ll be great.” Instead of saying, “Hey, this is art and this is amazing. And I’m so proud of it. And I would rather keep it in my home for an extra year than sell it for less than a thousand dollars.” Settling for crumbs will keep you hungry. Get fed you all.
Miriam Schulman:
I love it. Okay, let’s go feast. We deserve to be a well-fed artist, not a starving artist. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for being with me here today. I’ll see you the same time, same place next week’s stay inspired. Boom.
Announcer:
Thank you for listening to The Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram, @Schulmanart. And of course, on schulmanart.com.
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