THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Miriam Schulman:
The other thing I want you to know is that people are not, my message isn’t really different than it’s ever been, that people are less price sensitive than you think. Price is only one thing that people are looking at. There are three things that people are looking at that you have absolute control over other than the price. And that is they’re looking more for quality and they’re looking for convenience. So if you can emphasize in your messaging and the way you talk about your art, how much quality it is, that’s going to help you because that is something that people are looking at. And the convenience thing, can you offer to drop it off for them at their home? They’re trying to do a commission, can you go to their house and measure the space? Anything you can do that makes their life easier and removes any friction points in that transaction that will help you make a sale.
Speaker 2:
It’s The Inspiration Place podcast with artist Miriam Schulman. Welcome to The Inspiration Place podcast, an art world insider podcast, full artist by an artist, where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the art. And now your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman:
Hey there, it’s Miriam Schulman here, your curator of inspiration, and you’re listening to episode number 216 of the Inspiration Plays podcast. So right now I am recording at the country, so those of you who have very sensitive hearing, you might hear a slight difference between the microphones, but I just wanted to get into the studio to record something. My husband likes to spend a lot of time at the farm during the summer. He has a tractor, he likes to push dirt around. Those of you who might be seeing me on video, my studio is on a porch and the portion of the studio, it’s an enclosed porch, but it’s the former front door of the house. It actually looks I’m sitting outside, but I actually am inside. It’s a small studio, but it’s just the perfect size, so it’s both.
It’s really my painting studio, though it seems like today it’s my recording studio since that’s what we’re doing here today. I have a very special episode for you. When I hit 200 episodes, I felt it called for a celebration. And what I wanted to gift my podcast were podcast reviews. So what I did was I invited y’all to leave a review on the podcast and submit it on a form. And everyone who did so got invited to a coaching party. So what today’s episode is, is a best of from that coaching party. Joining me is Shaun Roney. She is the mindset maven who is inside the artist incubator and myself. And we just answered as many questions as we could from the people who were there, who submitted, who showed up, and we had such a good time I wanted to share it with you. So this is the best of from that session.
Now, if you want the video version of it, you can get it if you leave a review on the podcast and head on over to schulmanart.com/200, you actually can still get the complete recording of it. This one is a bridged version for the podcast, but if you want the complete one, you can get it. You can still get it even though you can’t join us live anymore obviously. Just leave a review of the podcast. Head over to schulmanart.com/200, scroll down and you’ll see a form that you can use to submit your name, your email, and a screenshot of your review. And as soon as you do that, we will email you the video recording of this. I hope you enjoy it.
And for those who don’t know, I have Shaun Roney here today. So Shaun, give us a big okay. Awesome. Shaun is our mindset maven inside the artist incubator program. She is a neurodiversity nurturer, meaning she helps people, people or women? Is it mostly women?
Shaun Roney:
People. It’s mainly women, but honestly I have some men in there as well.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. Right. She helps people who have neurodiverse brains manage their focus, let’s say, whether or not you actually have a diagnosis. I was looking at the questions that were coming in. I said, Shaun, I need your help because some of the questions that came in have a little bit more to do with mindset than they do with strategy. Okay.
Shaun Roney:
My favorite topic.
Miriam Schulman:
When did you know that choosing art was going to be your path? Okay, I love this question. I always wanted to be an artist, and that was something I remember even back in middle school, my girlfriends and I used to say, what do you want to be? And all of us either wanted to be an artist or a writer, and I’m very pleased now to be able to say that I actually accomplished both. I’m an artist and a writer, so that’s something that I always wanted to do. If there’s something that you want to do, what I like to say is you don’t have to do everything you want to do in life all at once. That there are seasons in our life. There were time where I was more focused on being in a traditional corporate world.
There was time when I was focused on my children, there was a time when I was focused mostly on my art, and now I’m actually mostly focused on helping other artists like you. I’m very proud of the work that we do here because it just breaks my heart when I see artists struggling to market, and it doesn’t have to be that way. Shaun, this one has to do with tackling selling in a downturn market or selling in a recession. I’m going to let you speak first and then I will add in my two cents.
Shaun Roney:
Tackling selling in a down trodden market. Interesting. I think, okay, down trodden market is how we’re choosing to think about it. So there are circumstances, you know I’m going to talk about circumstances, facts in the world, things that are true. All of us would maybe agree on them, right? We could pull out some data that shows current market trends maybe. And there are facts. Choosing to look at it and believe that what that means is that art, it’s not a time to sell art is a thought or a belief, and it’s not necessarily true. There are artists in the world who are actually selling more art right now, there have been many examples in your program, because of the current market and because people are spending more time at home, they’re looking at their bare walls, they’re wanting to feel better within the confines of the space they’re in.
I think I would just offer that you could choose to see it as a harder time to sell art, and that will absolutely then become true for you. It’s the way we talk about thoughts become things. So when you’re believing that the time is not right, it’s going to create a feeling in you and you’re going to show up a certain way and it’s going to absolutely prove to your mind that the time is not right. But if you choose to believe there’s no time like the present, this is the perfect time to sell art, it’s going to create a feeling for you, and then it’s going to show up in your reality that it’s exactly the perfect time to sell art.
Miriam Schulman:
Thanks Shaun. I knew you would have something beautiful to add there. Okay, so now Miriam comes in with all the data. So yes, there is data showing that in the United States we may be headed to a recession, but I have a lot of good news for you. First of all, people’s fears around spending usually happen during the anticipation of the recession. Once you’re actually in a recession, the spending actually rebounds. The other thing I want you to know is that people are not, and my message isn’t really different than it’s ever been, that people are less price sensitive than you think. Price is only one thing that people are looking at. There are three things that people are looking at that you have absolute control over other than the price. And that is they’re looking more for quality and they’re looking for convenience.
If you can emphasize in your messaging and the way you talk about your art, how much quality it is, that’s going to help you because that is something that people are looking at. And the convenience thing, can you offer to drop it off for them at their home? They’re trying to do a commission, can you go to their house and measure the space? Anything you can do that makes their life easier and removes any friction points in that transaction, that will help you make a sale. The other thing I want to offer you is if you’re offering online classes, instead of discounting you can offer a bundle. So maybe you have two classes available at a reduced price. Maybe if they buy a set of ceramic dishes, it’s less than if they buy things separately. So there are ways that you can help that price conscious consumer perceive how you are offering greater value to them.
That is what I wanted to share about that. The other thing is that people are looking for escape, and art classes do offer both of those things. So even during a depression, what sales go up? Lipstick is something that actually during the Great Depression was something that went off the charts and how much people were spending on lipstick, which you would say is a non-essential item. If you just recognize that people buy things that make them feel good and your art makes people feel good, you’re going to be way ahead of the game. How do you remain inspired during hard times in life and in the world? I’ll let you tackle that one first.
Shaun Roney:
All right. I love the topic of inspired and inspiration, not only because it’s in your company’s name, I love it because it’s a feeling, so we can experience the feeling of inspired. I want everyone that’s listening right now to think about a time when you felt inspired and you experienced it in your body and how it felt, where you felt it, what it felt like if it was a fast or a slow emotion, what color inspired is for you, what shape is it, right? So really dig into how it feels for you to feel inspired, because it’s different for everybody. And then think about what you were thinking when you were experiencing that feeling, because we can go back and recall a past experience or a past relationship that we had with that feeling and pull it into our present.
We can create it today by thinking in a very similar fashion. The other reason I love inspiration or the feeling of inspired is we can actually put circumstances in our world that make it easier for us to access the feeling of inspiration. So what inspires you, for some people’s getting out into nature. For other people it’s watching a movie and getting ideas from that and feeling inspired. For other people. It’s reading a book. For you, what helps you access the feeling of inspired along with your thoughts?
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, that’s beautiful. I don’t have a lot to add to that. I definitely agree with Shaun that getting out of nature is one of my favorite ways for refreshing myself and exercise. So walking outside, walking in nature. I live in New York City now, but actually we have Central Park, we have Riverside Park, and I try to walk in Riverside Park almost every day because I get to see the Hudson River, the water and the trees. That’s always available to me. The other thing that I like about creativity, and I got this from Julia Cameron who wrote The Artist’s Way, she said creativity is a little bit like sex. Sometimes you think you’re not in the mood, but once you get started you can get really into it. And this is from a woman in her 70s, so I love that.
Who is your favorite artist? So to me it’s like asking what my favorite ice cream flavor is, always changes. I don’t really know that I have a favorite artist, I have favorite artists. I’m definitely these days more inspired by women artists because they had so much to overcome. Right now women still only represent about 10% of artists across museums in the United States. And that includes, I think the Museum of Modern Art. It’s slightly higher because it’s a modern museum, but it’s not that high. Maybe it’s 20%. I’m definitely more inspired by women, especially ones who’ve had similar life experiences, me, if they had to raise a family and they’re an artist, I’m very inspired by that. Alice Neal would be an example of that. Kara Walker would be another. I’m definitely inspired by women who are artists and also mothers.
Shaun Roney:
Okay, so two things. First of all, when you said artists, my mind expanded. So what popped in for me was Misty Copeland. I was like, artists, right? All different types of art. Also what popped in is the undiscovered artists because I love and adventure. I feel like even the people within your program, some of them, not all of them, but for me, undiscovered gems. I feel like honestly favorite artists, what’s the most exciting thing to me is to discover an artist that I haven’t yet seen before, their work.
Miriam Schulman:
And on that you would really like Shaun and everyone listening, to go to the YouTube channel for Architectural Digest. Have you seen this already? You don’t know what I’m talking about? Okay, so you can see a tour of Misty Copeland’s apartment and she shows you her art collection.
Shaun Roney:
I have not seen that.
Miriam Schulman:
You have to go see it as soon as this is over. She talks about all the different art and no surprise she collects artists who are black artists. And so there are so many, some of them I know, some of them I don’t know. I love the way she incorporates that into her home. It’s like talking about her art collection. What people have to understand and the message for us as artists is that people like to buy art that they connect to. This is a connection point. So that’s why talking about yourself and your life is so important to your art collectors. If you had to recommend one thing for an artist to do to get their art out there for public to see, what would it be?
Okay, so I would do in-person shows. One of the things we were talking about earlier about what the economic reports are telling us, that the good news for our artists is that peoples COVID fears are a lot less now. I’m not trying to say that COVID is a lot less now, I know all about the variants and everything, but the general public, their fears have gone down and they’re much more willing to shop. And even grocery shopping has returned more to in-person shopping. So people want any excuse to get out and be with other people and in-person shopping has gone up. So if you are struggling, and this is not just the one thing I would do, if you’re struggling with online sales, move some of your art sales to in-person, because that’s where people want to be right now. They want to be shopping in-person.
Okay. This one is for you Shaun. I see and hear a lot of artists who are incredibly insecure, stubborn and say silly things, still they sell like crazy. How? I am an insecure introvert and say silly things at the wrong time all the time and see clients run away. What is their secret? I’m going to let you handle that one.
Shaun Roney:
That’s good. It’s like a little multilayered. Okay. The first thing I would offer is the thoughts that other people are saying things that are silly and that other people are insecure and that other people are stubborn. Our brains actually love to judge and have a lot of opinions about other people. The problem with that is as strongly as we’re judging others, there is not really an easy way to step away from that and then not turn that same judgment on yourself. Of course when we’re busy judging other people for what they’re doing wrong, what they’re not quite getting right, our brain then wants to go into double down protection mode to make sure that we’re not seen, we’re not heard, so that other people don’t judge us as being stubborn, silly, and secure.
It’s one thing to know that about yourself and know that you sometimes say silly things and wonder why it’s not translating for you. It’s not, what’s the word I’m looking for? Converting into sales for you. It’s one thing to know that about yourself, but it’s another thing to believe that other people are going to think that about you, because that’s going to shut you down. When you’re really focused on what other people might think about you, which is the thing that you’re going to do when you’re busy doing that to other people. There’s no way you can be in judgment of others without then worrying that others might be in judgment of you. It’s what my brain’s doing, we assume everybody else’s brain is doing as well.
And the truth is, to be honest, judgment is just opinions. Everyone’s going to have opinions. There’s for sure going to be people that have opinions about what you do. There’s just no getting around that. And can you be okay with that? Can you allow other people to have their thoughts about you and be wrong about you? I think that’s mainly what I hear in that. I think the part two is, why isn’t it working for me? How come when I show up and say silly things, it holds me back? I would say there’s probably a belief wrapped around say a silly thing, maybe that person that asked the question, their belief is like, well I can’t get away with saying silly things.
And just like we were talking about with that other model, when you believe you can’t get away with saying silly things, it makes you feel some kind of way and then literally it doesn’t work for you. Saying silly things is just neutral. Some people will do it, some people won’t. It’s not thing that’s creating the results for those other people, it’s their belief in themselves. That felt like a very circular way to get there.
Miriam Schulman:
I think that’s beautiful. And I think we also tend to judge other people harshly the things we don’t like about ourselves would be another way to put the same things. The next question is really about nicheing, Shaun. The question is, I still showing my illustration work on my website, am I confusing my clients or limiting my ability to earn by showing fine art painting, pastel animal portraits and illustration work? From an artist’s perspective, it’s going to depend how much those things you just said, if somebody were to look at each thing, does it look like it’s done by a completely different artist? A lot of us will tend to look at our own work and see more the differences rather than the similarities.
And the way I like to think of it is a lot of times it’s like if you look at a family, so I have a sister and a lot of people say, oh my gosh, you guys look exactly alike. And my sister and I be like, no, we don’t. We don’t look anything alike. Are you kidding me? So sometimes with our artwork, we will judge it the same way, where we look more at the differences because we’re so close to it or somebody else will look at it and see more of the similarities. So does all your art look like it belongs in the same family or does it look like it came from a completely different place? And that’s what can be confusing for your audience. Now, at the same time, you will be more successful if you niche down. So Shaun, I think this would be a good question for you to talk about niche, because it’s the same thing as it is in your world.
Shaun Roney:
It is. Yep. The benefit of nicheing down is that your message becomes really succinct and the people that are most likely to connect with it, are going to be able to self-identify really easily. It’s not like you’re going through the masses just calling out to everyone and you become a voice of many and nobody really pays attention because they don’t think you’re talking to them. It’s like when you don’t niche down, what happens is everybody can assume you’re talking to someone else. Like they’re not really speaking to me because it doesn’t grab their ear, it doesn’t catch their attention. Let’s say your, I’m like, what’s the example in art?
Miriam Schulman:
I’ll tell you. Okay. We have some examples of some artists who are alumni who are here today. Cindy Mall does landscape mostly of the Pacific Northwest. Elizabeth Mordensky who’s here today, she focuses on wildlife. And just to make this more specific, so it doesn’t mean that Elizabeth, just because she had success selling bear paintings means she can only paint bear paintings. She could also paint a landscape that is where you would expect to see a bear. I think that would fit into that family. But if she started painting abstract cubist or watercolor portraits, that would be very confusing to her audience. Cindy does landscapes. They don’t all have to be of the Pacific Northwest, but her collectors are coming to her website expecting to see landscapes.
So it would be weird for them to see a portrait on there. It wouldn’t be totally wrong. Cindy, by the way, if you want to do a portrait, people would need to identify, yes, that’s the same style. Shaun, do you want to add to that?
Shaun Roney:
That totally clarifies. It helps direct people towards you, helps to draw them closer to you. So if someone is searching specifically for Pacific Northwest landscapes, they’re going to associate that name with that type of art. And anybody in the world who is looking for a Pacific Northwest landscape is more likely to find you if that happens to be what you’ve niche down to, versus combing through all of the artists that are there in the world and trying to happen upon a landscape of the Pacific Northwest. There’s a benefit to being really clear about who you are and what you create, so that when people are searching, I mean it comes down to the Googleable question. If someone’s Googling a specific type of art that they’re looking for, it’s going to be helpful if that’s the type of art that you do, that you’ve really identified with that, tightened your message up around it and communicated, hey, that’s me over here that you’re looking for.
Miriam Schulman:
The next question is, what’s the number one must thing to do every day as an artist? I don’t know if that’s an actual mindset question again, what do you think Shaun?
Shaun Roney:
Oh my gosh. What came to me initially was decide for yourself what is the number one best thing to do as an artist? Because it’s going to be different for each and every person.
Miriam Schulman:
She’s right.
Shaun Roney:
There’s not one right answer.
Miriam Schulman:
She’s right. That’s why this is a mindset question.
Shaun Roney:
Ask yourself, what is my next best step today?
Miriam Schulman:
I would say the best thing that you could do each day though is to plan your day. Do something just because you feel like it and following, just hoping inspiration is going to strike. And this goes back to the earlier question, what do you do for inspiration? I basically decide and if I’m really good, I decide on in the beginning of the week, either Sunday or Monday, what my week’s going to look like. I basically had down between nine and 11 on Tuesday that I had to write and record podcasts. It wasn’t like I got up and I’m in the mood to record. I had decided ahead of time that’s what I was going to do. And that’s the number one thing that has made me successful. And this is going back years, is really making a plan for myself. What do you think about that, Shaun?
Shaun Roney:
I think there’s a balance, a dance between the right and left brain when it comes to that. And so you do want to create spaces where you can unleash your creativity and maybe not be as structured, but you also want to balance it with creating spaces, times when you’re going to be a little more structured and know when you’re doing both, I think can be really helpful. Also for people that have a hard time with that, I am a fan of choosing what is the one thing that if I got it done today, it would feel really good. I would feel proud of myself, it would feel worth it and start there. And then maybe gradually build up to two things a day that are like that.
I call the brox in my world, but it’s focus points. Right? And at the very minimum, what are those two results you’re going to create in your day? And then allow the creative process to happen maybe around that.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s great. And that really is the answer to the next question, which is, how do you build consistency in everything you do as you’re very busy and get lots done? And it’s basically what I just said. And then this question’s the same as what we talked about. Have you got any tips from when inspirations are hard to come by? Okay.
Shaun Roney:
The other thing is sometimes you are inspired and it’s not during a scheduled time and it’s not when you had planned to create something. I actually think there’s a ton of benefit in also capturing that. So if you happen to be out and you have inspiration, go ahead and however you can capture it, whether it means jotting the idea down, reporting it to yourself so you remember later, it doesn’t mean that you can only create during the scheduled time, because I think sometimes then it feels a little too rigid for some people. I do think find your balance of that. I know for me, sometimes I’ll get inspired and it’s like, I really want to write about this or talk about this. I will just knock it out really quick because it can literally come in and out in a matter of 15 minutes.
And then I will wait until my scheduled time to post or share or whatever it is to then work with that creation and intentionally put it out into the world. I don’t know if that makes sense.
Miriam Schulman:
It totally makes sense. And I do want to share that I am not as rigid as maybe I described how I am with my schedule. So from nine to 11 it has work block and it has, okay, this is what you’re going to do. But let’s just say that nine to 11 time, instead of writing and reporting the podcast, I says, you know what, I really want to write these emails that I have to do that are a different time or work on the portrait commission or whatever. If I have different work blocks and with things assigned, so when I get to my work block, as long as I’m tackling one of my work blocks that I decided during the week, because I know what I have to get done during the week, that’s okay too.
I actually write things on stickers so then I can move my sticker around, I’m actually doing this over here. Or if something happens because life happens, have a work block nine to 11, but your mother calls you with her disaster, which isn’t a disaster by the way, it’s all in her head, she needs life coaching. So with her disaster and you decide to take that call, but now you’re all pissed off because whatever she said ticked you off. So maybe I move my work block. I also will build in buffer times so that if things do get derailed, I know I can get those things done.
Shaun Roney:
Rigid is a rough word. More like structured, right? I realize people have a hard time visualizing what exactly it looks like, and it also looks really different for a lot of people.
Miriam Schulman:
It’s also kind of when you’re on a diet, you stay to a diet most of the time, but sometimes you don’t. It’s the same sort of thing or like me, most of the time I don’t. What’s the primary difference between the artists you mentor who do really well with their sales and their income versus the ones who flounder?
Shaun Roney:
The quality of their thoughts, is the short answer. If someone’s creating results that they want or that you would like, it directly ties to their thinking higher quality thoughts, just meaning thoughts that feel more supportive, thoughts that are more nurturing, loving, encouraging towards themselves, towards their artwork, towards the possibility of making sales. It really is the only difference. It translates into, you’re going to take actions no matter what. Both of you are working hard and taking action, let’s just start from that baseline assumption. Everybody’s creating, everybody’s taking some type of action or not. The reason those things are happening is because of the way each of them is thinking.
Someone who believes they’re going to sell art at the price that they’re asking is more likely to make quite a few more offers than someone who is believing art is not selling right now and shutting themselves down before they even get started.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m going to piggyback onto that. So what I see is, and so again it of course goes to the thoughts, but the artist I coach who believe in the process that I’m teaching, get the best results. I’m going to again give two shout outs to the two artists that we have here today, Cindy and Elizabeth. Elizabeth, when she first came to me, I said to her, you do wildlife art, you would do great with publicity. And she actually took my advice and that is how she ended up in that magazine and negotiated the spread and the ads and did everything and made $9,500 in sales because she believed in the advice that I was giving her. Now the artists who flounder are the ones who say, well that won’t work for me.
Shaun Roney:
Totally.
Miriam Schulman:
Those are the ones that flounder her. They don’t believe in either themselves or the process.
Shaun Roney:
I was just going to say, you got it. It’s belief in self or belief in the process or belief in, I would say the person that’s teaching the process, the person that’s giving. So in general, if you don’t yet believe in your process, I would assume that’s why they’re signing up to work with you, right? Because they’re like, something’s not working. You can totally borrow your teacher, mentor, Miriam’s belief in the process. Right? You don’t have to fully believe what she believes. You can actually borrow her belief that it works. And if you believe that, it will work for you. If you’re like, I don’t know if this will work, I don’t know if I believe that, guess what? It won’t work because you don’t believe it. It comes down to the belief.
Miriam Schulman:
But also because you don’t do it. Cindy, who is here today, I told her to send more emails. Cindy is such a good student, she sends an email almost every week and she’s actually really good at it. Cindy says it was the emails for me, I didn’t believe it then, but then I did it anyways. So you believed it enough to do it though. That’s the difference. And so that’s really the difference when your belief model is kind of like you’re low on the belief scale and you don’t believe it enough to even give it a try. The beauty of being in a community, and especially those who are in the mastermind, when they see other people having success with what I’m sharing, they’re more likely to do it, because it says, it worked for her and she’s not special, then it’ll work for me. That is the beauty of being in a community or in a mastermind group.
How do you feel about social media and what are your boundaries and limits for your business specifically things that may be a little less fun? Shaun, you want to answer this one first?
Shaun Roney:
Here’s what I think about social media. People have so many thoughts about it. In my world, it is an action that you take. I don’t think it’s going to make or break you. I think it really depends on what you believe about social media and if it’s your primary mode of advertising. I think it can be a wonderful opportunity. People are digital right now. Art is visual. It’s a great way to share visually your work. I would assume that it’s a really supportive thing for artists to do. I also think sometimes just the speed bump of getting over yourself and just posting regularly, sending the emails regularly can really slow people down because of their thoughts about it. I’m going to be seen, I’m going to be exposed to so many people. I’ve seen so many of those thoughts slow people down in regards to social media.
I really think mindset’s important when it comes to social media because it can be like fuel on a fire and catapult you into the world of being seen in a great way. Or you can use it against yourself and anticipate being seen in that way and use it to fully put on the brakes and resist it.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, I’m going to come home and follow the facts now. All right. In your Instagram feed, 1% of the people who followed you would actually see your post. They don’t choose to see your post, Instagram decides to show your post to only 1% your follower. So just to make sure you understand what that means. If you have 300 people following you, three people will see it. Now that’s not exactly true because if you have a small following, the percentage is a little bit more. But let’s just go with that as an average. Now, with email, which is why push you guys to send emails, you get about a 25% open rate. That means 25% of the people who you create this email for will see it. But here’s the bigger difference, Instagram decides who sees that post.
When you send an email and the person who looks at their phone and they see your subject line, they get to decide whether or not they’re opening your email, they decide. So that result, you have a lot more control over that and there’s going to be a lot more people. Let’s say it’s 300 people on your email list, that means 75 people will see what it is that you set. So that is my feeling on social media. You can do it, but not if it’s going to take away from sending out an email every week. That is the number one thing that is going to move your art career forward. All right. Moving on.
Shaun Roney:
I love the data.
Miriam Schulman:
I know, right? Well-
Shaun Roney:
Changed my thoughts. I’m like, nope, I think with that data I would be like, well, email first, social media second.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. And then it’s what are your boundaries and limits for your business specifically when things may be less fun? Okay. So here is my personal boundaries. Now know that I am in the position where I have a team. I know not everybody has a team. So for most of the content that you see posted, I would say 99% of the stuff that gets posted, my team creates. But what I do myself is I actually am the one who messages new followers on Instagram and people who watch my master classes, I tell them to DM me the word inspired to let me know they’re watching. And I will ask them, hey, do you have any questions? That’s all me. And that’s what I try to do. I try not to get side stepped by cute cats. Actually I do get sidestep by cute cats. Quite hard. It’s really hard.
But yeah, that is my thing. I do pay attention to how much time per day I’m spending on my phone and social media and I try to minimize that. In terms of social media on my phone, the only social media app that I have that’s active is Instagram. I do not have Facebook on my phone, I do not have Twitter on my phone, I do not have YouTube. I do not have TikTok, I do not have Snapchat, Clubhouse, I don’t have those. I don’t have any of those things on my phone. The only one I have is Instagram, because that’s the one I use to communicate with people. In terms of Facebook, the only time I use Facebook is on my desktop, and my additional boundary with that is my news feed is turned off. It’s completely turned off.
And that is because I do not want to see when someone’s dog dies. I do not want to see upsetting news from friends and from people reposting upsetting news, stories. I don’t want to see any of it. So when I go to work, because I have to do some work on Facebook as you do as well, then I don’t want to see any of that. And that does mean that I may miss out on seeing announcements of people’s happy events. But that is a boundary that I’ve set and I rather just text my friends more often and actually check in with them than to rely on Facebook to do connecting for me. Okay. What strategy has been the most successful for you in collecting emails subscribers? Okay. Here’s one way I do use social media and that is for paid advertising, and that is the number one way I collect emails. No question about it.
However, that is for selling my art classes. For selling my portraits and my fine art I don’t need to use advertising at all because a painting like that is $5,000. I only have to sell 10 of them a year to make a full-time living as a portrait artist. I’m in the position now, like I mentioned at the beginning, I’m spending more time doing coaching than I am doing the fine art, but in-person has always been my best source for art collectors. If you’re going to go into an online class, a digital course business or a coaching business, then paid advertising is a great way to add, as Shaun said, fuel to that fire. Shaun, do you have anything to add to that?
Shaun Roney:
I think sometimes it’s just really specific to your audience. I work with divergent people, like you said, women, and people who have ADHD tendencies. I have a quiz and it’s been a great way to collect emails. It’s just interesting and simple and engaging and quirky. It’s not too serious. It’s like that squirrel, that disco ball. And I use paid ads. I’ve used Google Ads to direct traffic to that quiz. Not always high quality. Right? It’s a very cold contact, cold reach out, but it gets them on my list and then they get to learn from there who I am.
Miriam Schulman:
I just want to explain quickly what Google Ads are, how they work. Google Ads works really well when someone is searching for an answer. I’m assuming people who are searching for how to manage ADHD is the keywords you’re going for. Is that right?
Shaun Roney:
Yes. Do I have ADHD? How do I know if I have ADHD?
Miriam Schulman:
Google AdWords can be a powerful way to advertise for artists if you have a very specific niche. So this is what we’re talking about before. Elizabeth Mordensky for example, who does focus on wildlife art, she could put a Google Ad together for people searching for her kind of art. Someone doing abstract art, that’s going to be a lot harder to make Google Ads work for you. I imagine that it would be very expensive to drill down for people who are looking for that. This is a mindset question, Shaun, as well as a strategy question. I’m just starting an email newsletter in hopes of selling more paintings to people interested in my work? How do I make it seem not salesy?
Shaun Roney:
I’m going to go right to the energy behind sending the email, right? Because this is where my brain automatically goes. So how are you feeling? What is your thought when you’re typing the email, writing the email and hitting send? Is it, I hope someone buys? Is it, I want them to buy, I need them to buy? Are you saying things in your email really focused on need? Right? I need this, I need them to take this action? Or is your mindset more along the lines of, I can’t wait to share this, I know there’s people that are going to love this, people need to see what I’ve been working on, because it’s going to create a completely different energy in your body. One of them, I want you to think, I need them to buy this versus I can’t wait for people to see what I’ve been working on.
Just the energy and how each of those feels, it almost goes into your email. Really the intention behind why you’re writing it will come out in the sentences, the words you use. It’s just important to be really clear on how you’re feeling and what you’re thinking before you write it and then hit send, is my thought.
Miriam Schulman:
And the other way I’ve heard that described how the way you feel shows up, is that it’s like when something has a bad smell to it, you can have the same shirt and it looks all nice. So it’s not always about the exact words you use, but if you are coming from a desperate, needy place rather than an abundant place, it’s going to have a smell to it. And people can smell desperation. Everyone talks about finding your ideal customer and I understand that for a lot of subjects, forces, pets, even commission, people portraits, but I like to paint abstract background, portraits of women, which I feel depicts them as strong or represents an emotion or experience linked to being female.
While women may identify with these, I’m not sure they would buy them, so I struggle with my audience and therefore my marketing. This is really holding me back as I don’t know where to search for my ideal buyers. That said, I haven’t started selling this newer work yet, but I have sold earlier commissions. Okay. I have a lot of thoughts about this. This is one of the reasons why I don’t recommend that artists who paint either, well, it’s not just for abstract artists really, but why Facebook ads are very difficult to run for artists, because you really don’t know who’s going to connect with your art unless it’s really, really specific. So for example, if you do Judaica art and you’re able to identify a large group of people who are subscribed to Hadassah Magazine or support Jewish causes, that would work.
If you do cat paintings, maybe you can show your ads to people Meow Mix or something like that, or Petco. But taste is very subjective. So that is why it’s more important for you to lead with who you are as an artist, who you are with your values and people will connect with that. So that is how you draw in people to you, is by being your most honest and authentic self. And then like we said earlier, you’re going to find out who’s connecting with it by going in-person, people will be immediately drawn to it, instead of having to pay to advertise and to put it in front of people who may or may not be drawn to it. You have it out, you will naturally pull them in. Shaun, what do you have to say about this?
Shaun Roney:
I love that. It reminds me of the conversation earlier with Misty Copeland. I couldn’t tell you who my favorite artists are off the cuff, but the connection point, and then realizing that we have some things in common and if we have these things in common, I like to believe that anyways, as a former dancer, what type of art is she interested in? Because maybe we have that in common too. I think just finding those connection points is great advice. I think being authentically you, showing up as you, sharing the things you love, sharing a little bit about your process, why you do it, what got you to what you’re doing, what you’re creating, I think it just creates intrigue and interest. Again, I think it’s an energetic thing.
So when you are doing that and showing up, you can’t help but draw people to you, like a cat goes to Meow Mix. I love that. There’s a draw. People find that really appealing when they can sense who someone is.
Miriam Schulman:
Also, you have to understand that when people buy art, they’re not just buying a commodity. It’s not like, I want pink underwear, I’m going to search for pink underwear, there’s pink underwear. Okay, I’m going to buy it. Although we can make arguments that underwear is not always a commodity either, because we have everything from Pia, which are very inclusive underwear brands, to ones who maybe less inclusive that you don’t want to buy from. So there’s that as well. But when you’re selling art, people are not just buying your thing because they like your thing, they are buying a piece of the artist. They really want a piece of you and that’s really important to remember. Okay. Shaun, do you have any last words before we call this party complete?
Shaun Roney:
I feel like something you said just really stood out and it was that people are carrying the belief that people want to buy a piece of the artist and they’re wanting to buy a feeling, access to emotions. So just as much as we’ve been talking about manage your thoughts and manage the way you feel, right? Because thoughts create feelings, keep in mind as an artist, many people that’s why they’re buying art. They want to see something on a wall that triggers a thought in their mind, that creates a really good feeling in them. I think that is one of the main driving factors for purchasing art. And so your goal is, how do I show up and get out there remembering that people really just want to experience the range of emotions and I have a gift to help them access that. Music does the same thing, right? Want to feel a certain way, you put on a certain song.
Miriam Schulman:
And by the way, ceramicists, don’t think that doesn’t apply to you. I feel a certain way every time I bring down this bowl that’s glazed in this gorgeous color green, that’s my favorite color. That’s why I like ceramics because I put it in places and it makes me feel a certain way. All right. That’s all the time we have today. For those of you who are not yet in the artist incubator program, Shaun and I would love to welcome you in. We have two tracks available. The mastermind track is by application only. I do limit that to artists who have a track record of sales and already have a website. So to see if you qualify for that, you can go to schulmanart.com/biz.
The artist in the self study program, they’re not any less accomplished. Elizabeth Mordensky is one of the alumni who have come out of that program. It’s mostly for artists who just want more flexibility and can learn things on their own. And they get Shaun three times a month and they get me every month, and you get the same exact curriculum as in the mastermind program. So for either one of those programs, go to schulmanart.com/biz, because we would love to be able to help you succeed.
Shaun Roney:
Absolutely. Super fun group.
Miriam Schulman:
All right everyone, thank you so much for being with here today, tonight, whatever time it is in your world, stay inspired.
Speaker 2:
Thank you for listening to The Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram @SchulmanArt, and of course on schulmanart.com.
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