THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Allison Lane:
That book proposal becomes the anchor to every author’s marketing ecosystem. It really does. A well-written proposal becomes your Amazon description copy. It becomes your back cover copy. It becomes your speaking pitch. It becomes your pitch to your clients or your customers, or the people you serve and you interact with because it requires that you actually whittle down how you describe yourself and the impact you make in the world to the most potent phrases that really pierce someone’s heart. And then you can let all the other words fall away.
Speaker 2:
It’s the Inspiration Place podcast with artist Miriam Schulman. Welcome to The Inspiration Place Podcast, an art world inside a podcast, full artists, by an artist where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the art. And now your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, hello my friend. This is Miriam Schulman, your curator of inspiration and author of the book, Artpreneur, and you’re listening to episode number 235 of the Inspiration Place podcast. I am so thrilled that you’re here. Well, if you haven’t figured it out by now, I wrote a book and that’s why today I wanted to bring in one of the many people who has helped me along on this journey. So I’m going to invite her on and I’ll introduce her in a moment. But before we get there, I just wanted to explain to you what it is that we did together in terms of what it is, because these terms may be new to you if you’ve never tried to traditionally publish a book. So a lot of people think that, and I thought this as well, that you just go out into a writing shed, little she shed, and you write a brilliant manuscript and you send it to a publisher and they love it, and they publish you.
And no, it doesn’t work like that. So what happens is you need what’s called a book proposal, which is basically a big marketing document which pitches you to both the agent, which yes, you need an agent. And then the agent will help you refine that further so that she can use that pitch document to then go and pitch the publishers. Those are the keys that unlock the doors for traditional publishing. And to be honest, as soon as I found out that you need a book proposal first, it actually, I felt a little let off the hook because it was like, “Oh, I don’t have to write my book anymore. I can just work on this book proposal,” and it’s a marketing thing, and I know about marketing. So that was actually a relief to me, but I still couldn’t do it myself.
Whenever we do anything that’s brand new, we have all kinds of mind drama about it, and that’s why it’s really important to bring in an expert who has walked the path or has helped other people do the same thing. And yes, I hire coaches too. So that’s why I’m going to introduce you to the woman I hired to be my book proposal coach and let us bring her on.
All right, my next guest is a marketer for nonfiction authors and people who should be. As a creative thinker and brand storyteller, she helps turn their expertise into books, content and news so they can increase their presence, build buzz, and connect with raving fans. Her high quality delivery methods were honed over decades of writing multimillion dollar campaigns for globally respected brands, including Unilever, the Body Shop, Burt’s Bees, John Hopkins, and representing them to national media. She hosts the creative nonfiction Facebook community where she dishes expert advice on marketing and publishing. Please welcome to the inspiration place, Allison Lane.
Allison Lane:
Hi everybody. Hi Miriam. I’m so jazzed to be here. Thanks for having me.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, I’m excited to have you and to talk about this process. So I know you have some words first. Well, first of all, why don’t you tell everybody, let’s do a little chit chat first. Tell everybody where and how you are. Where in the world are you?
Allison Lane:
I am outside Boston and enjoying living in a place that has a full force of all four seasons. As we used to live in North Carolina, which mostly is committed to summer and oppressive heat. And it’s nicer here for sure.
Miriam Schulman:
Have you gone through a winter there yet? You have, right?
Allison Lane:
Yes. Yes, for sure. Well then again, I also have lived in Chicago and New York, and so I’ve had my share of cold, so it’s not so shocking, but it is rather gray.
Miriam Schulman:
There’s a lot more snow for some reason in Boston than there is everywhere else, so.
Allison Lane:
Yeah. Yeah, It’s pretty snow. You definitely need multiple pairs of boots for sure.
Miriam Schulman:
I need some of those too, not just the Birkenstocks I’ve been wearing all summer. All right, so let’s dive into this. First of all, I just want to talk about how I find you and why I chose you, Allison, because I don’t even know if you know that. So I was given a list of people to go check out and I wrote to you and right away you wrote back, but so did other people. But what I loved about you is I could really tell by the way, even you wrote me back that you understood the sales copy even in that reply to me. So there was something like from the beginning that I knew right away that you knew what you were talking about. I never told you that, huh?
Allison Lane:
No. I’m going to have to go look at my sent mail and see what kind of genius I was laying down for you-
Miriam Schulman:
You sure it wasn’t your canned response you use for everybody?
Allison Lane:
No. So I don’t have a canned response. That would’ve taken planning and I like to be on the fly.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes.
Allison Lane:
Well, especially for those types of things.
Miriam Schulman:
And it was good. And so we worked together one on one, but I don’t think you even offer that anymore. Is that correct, before we get into today?
Allison Lane:
I do for very few-
Miriam Schulman:
Like me?
Allison Lane:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
Because you’ll continue-
Allison Lane:
Yeah, for very few because not everybody wants the one on one. A lot of people want fast and furious. A lot of people want to take it as they want to, especially memoirs usually need a lot more time. And what I’ve really focused on is expanding the availability. A really impressive, persuasive, influential book proposal, which is truly a sales document. It is a marketing plan. And if you don’t have that background, you might learn about what a book proposal is, but you’re not going to have the technique and the skill, and I want to make that more available to people. So that’s what I’m doing now.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. So one thing I wanted to also tell you. So this morning my publisher reached out to me and they says, “Well, we’re having trouble pitching [inaudible] and it would really help if you wrote a letter to them. So I went back to my proposal where I had identified my ideal reader, and I actually pretty much swiped that entire section and said, “I was once this woman standing at the cash register, and wouldn’t it have been wonderful if I looked up and there was the book, Artpreneur, for me to buy.” And then I wrote, basically copied everything out of the book proposal. Now, of course, my sales team could have done that too, by the way. They were like forgot that it was there. But it’s been a really nice document to go back to like over again, not just for the book, but for everything.
Allison Lane:
That book proposal becomes the anchor to every author’s marketing ecosystem. It really does. A well-written proposal becomes your Amazon description copy. It becomes your back cover copy, it becomes your speaking pitch. It becomes your pitch to your clients or your customers or the people you serve and you interact with because it requires that you actually whittle down how you describe yourself and the impact you make in the world to the most potent phrases that really pierce someone’s heart. And then you can let all the other words fall away, because we don’t need the JV team when you land varsity. So we’re good. We landed what you do and how you fuel artists to make a sustainable living from their creativity. We don’t need all the drafts. Those fall away. We don’t need that anymore. Because you really put your finger on what it is you do, which is actually, help people.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah.
Allison Lane:
So I’m so glad that that worked.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And 100% that what we put in the proposal as the, I think it was like the hook, I forget what you called it, what section that was, that was the Amazon. And I say was past tense, I’ll tell you in a moment why. I mean, as of this recording, it still is, the Amazon copy is exactly what you and I worked on together. But we are changing it because we do need the Amazon copy to be key word rich. And there’re certain words that you might use in your regular copy.
So for example, I might say, “You want to sell in a natural way.” And my publishers says, “Well, you can’t say the word natural because that keyword is more for nutrition.” Sometimes you have to actually, for that Amazon copy it needs to have more… Sometimes it repeats words a little more than you would want for beautiful writing. We may use the word authentic more than once where is in beautiful writing. I might switch out the word authentic for the word natural or you might get a little more creative in your writing. And for Amazon it’s a little bit more, you have to please the algorithm gods.
Allison Lane:
Right. You have to adjust based on the environment it’s being used in, for sure.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, 100%. One thing that you helped me with, which I absolutely didn’t have a clue, I mean, was the comps. So first of all, let me just help translate for the listeners who have no idea what we’re talking about. When you are selling a book proposal, what you’re doing is you’re pitching to the publisher, “Here’s my book and here’s why people will want to buy it and here’s why its worth something.” This is not that much different really than the real estate market when they’re trying to figure out how much should you price a house? They look at what else is in the neighborhood, what else has maybe three bedrooms, what else has been recently renovated? So the same thing that you might have a real estate comp, you need to have book comps to show the publisher these are the books that are similar to my book to show that there’s a demand for it, but not so similar that it looks like it’s already been written. So could you expand on that, Allison? And then we’ll talk about how the heck you go about doing it.
Allison Lane:
Right. The real estate example, the metaphor is super helpful because people tend to say, “Well, my book is the only book that I would compare it to is a book that I loved that was written 12 years ago. Well, that’s not that helpful because if you are trying to sell your craftsman house, we can’t compare that and price your house today to something that sold down the street or in the next town 12 years ago. It has to be recent. In terms of comps, it is multiple.
So we want to have competitive titles, or sometimes we call them comparative titles, but it’s a shortcut, it’s a nickname, comps. And truly within one genre, and I only work with nonfiction authors, but within the nonfiction realm, I like to picture all these books coming to a dinner party with you and you have a nice round table and you don’t want to invite people who are going to talk about the same thing or give the same joke because you want a lively discussion and you want it to be a group of friends that are fitting together like puzzle pieces. And those books need to play well together and they all need to add something different.
So just like you were saying, your book can’t be just like something out there. Well, none of those books can be exactly like each other because you’re trying to show that your book reaches those same audiences that the other four or five or six books that you’re comparing to reach. Does that help?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. So I know for sure that that section for my publisher was the most important. I don’t even know how carefully she read the rest of it, but what, no, I’m serious, because there were things that came, hopefully she’s not listening. I don’t think they listen to my podcast, but other people do and probably tell her. Now, the part that really caught the inquiring editor’s eye was the comp, because one of the titles that you included there was Jeff Goins’ Real Artist Don’t Starve. And I know 100% that was your suggestion because I hadn’t read it. And once we put it on the list, I was like, “Well, I better go and read it,” even though you said that’s not necessary, I felt it was, and besides it was something good to read.
Allison Lane:
Right. Yeah, it’s a great book.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. But the reason why this made a big difference, and I know it made a big difference, there were other… And I’m with Harper Collins, it’s a good publisher, but there are other top tier publishers who were like, “I don’t even see how we could sell 10,000 copies of this.” But Harper Collins’ leadership was the imprint for Jeff Goins’ book, and they were successful with that book. So they were like, “Okay, it’s time for this type of book.” Again, it sounds like I’m contradicting what you were saying about something that was 12 years ago. So could you tell them why this is different because now I’m realizing that we might have confused them a little. We brought back something from the past, and I know we had more recent titles as well.
Allison Lane:
But it wasn’t a 12 year old-
Miriam Schulman:
No, it wasn’t 12 years.
Allison Lane:
We stayed within, I think three or four years old, maybe five, but beyond five we would not have included.
Miriam Schulman:
But it was enough time and it wasn’t a different enough that they felt that this was a good fit for their team. Is that a good way of putting it?
Allison Lane:
Right, because people cycle in and out of their needs and the people who needed that then have gone to the next step. And maybe Jeff has transformed his business or his services and his offerings, and your audience may or may not know Jeff Goins. You hadn’t read his book and so we can assume that maybe a lot of your artists who love and follow you haven’t heard of him or haven’t read his book. There’s an absolutely a different doorway into the same topic that meets someone else at the time and the mindset where they are. And that’s why they need you. That’s why every topic has multiple leading voices because everyone needs to hear from the person they most connect to.
Miriam Schulman:
And the other thing that you did that I didn’t know is I was putting on self-published books on my list and you’re like, “No, they don’t want that on there,” because I was looking at my competitors and what they’re doing, and a lot of them have self-published books and you’re like, “Take that off.”
Allison Lane:
Well, yes, I think your publisher, if you’re going to have her or them on will tell you maybe why from their perspective. But to me, you’re trying to get a traditionally published book. Why would you say, “Look at these that weren’t traditionally published?” And that also requires an entirely different model for you to become essentially a full-time book distributor and marketer. And that’s not where you were going either. So it didn’t really fit.
Miriam Schulman:
No, it’s been very helpful to have an entire team behind me in so many different ways. It’s a very different book as a result. If I didn’t need to write a book proposal and I didn’t go through this traditional route, it would’ve looked a lot different. I mean, I remember in the beginning I thought, “Oh, all I have to do is transcribe a couple of podcasts.” It’s like, oops, that didn’t work. All right. So we have a couple more questions before we wrap up, Allison. Why is it that authors struggle so much with creating a hook for their book proposals or whatever it is that they’re pitching?
Allison Lane:
Anyone who’s pitching anything at any time runs this risk. They’re too close to their product, their service, their offer, their book, and they want to dive really, really deep into what’s happening in the book. And they forget that their book or their service is actually a gift that serves a need for someone else. So they dive deep for your book. This gives you the 1, 2, 3 about how to set up the finance and accounting for your art business. But that’s not what your book is about. Your book is about helping artists achieve financial stability and abundance using their creativity. The accounting measures, that’s part of the plot of your book. Those are tips, but your book is not about that. So they go way, way deep and they forget that they’re essentially promising something to the reader, which has to be high level. And because that’s what people want, they want the big picture, what’s in the goodie bag? That’s the plot of the book.
Miriam Schulman:
And one thing that I learned from my agent when she was helping me refine the book proposal is that the proposal, you’re talking to the publisher, which is very different than on the Amazon page or the back cover copy. We are definitely talking to the reader. So I would say something like, “That’s why I created the passion to profit framework.” If I was talking to the publisher, I’d say, “So that artists can find the time to do what they love.” And that’s different than when I’m on the back cover copy, I say, “Created so that you can find the time to do what you love. So who you’re talking to in the document is very different. And always know that when you’re pitching, whether you’re pitching for a publisher or some of Allison’s work, is also just pitching to the press. I know we’re not talking a lot about that today, but whoever you happen to be pitching, know who you’re talking to and talk directly to them, not kind of from the side of your mouth.
Allison Lane:
In the same vein, any artist who is selling their wares as gifts is presenting them as, what a wonderful surprise, the recipient, the person you’re giving this to will feel like this versus the person who’s buying it for themselves. It’s a different script that really touches their heart and it helps to put yourself in their shoes. What do they need to hear? What is the promise that they get to take with them or what they really want to have happen? Are they looking to make their home that much more beautiful? Or are they looking to present a gift to the community center and bring joy and wonder to the community? Words really matter and understanding who the end recipient of those words are is really about empathy and understanding. In the end, all communication strategy is, but it’s truly humanizing to talk about creative products like yours and all of your artists in the audience.
Miriam Schulman:
And one thing, I’m glad you brought that up, Allison, and I want to make it even more specific to the artist and my audience and those of you who maybe who have taken one of my classes, when I’m talking to art students, I have to be very mindful that their motivations for taking an art class is very different than somebody like me. So somebody who is a professional artist, if they want to take a pet portrait class, they might be thinking about monetizing pet portraits. But most of the people who sign up to take my pet portraits are not thinking about that. They’re thinking about giving gifts for their family. So the website copy that I use goes something like this. “Imagine your family’s faces when they open up that beautiful portrait that you created of their pet.” Because I know that most of the people who want to take my art class are doing it for those reasons.
So keeping in mind that your customer’s motivations are very different than your motivation, is very important. So thank you. Okay, so moving right along. You also say that you are a brand, your work is your product. You must be your own best marketer and understand the best marketer sell without stinking up the place with a sales pitch, which reminds me of those perfume ladies.
Allison Lane:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
When you walk in the department store, would you like the perfume? Would you like that?
Miriam Schulman:
No.
Allison Lane:
No. Now I smell like Armani.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay, can you say more about that?
Allison Lane:
Right. This is true of authors and artists and everyone. When you go in heavy with a sales pitch, people run because what they really want is access to you and your brilliance. And I am speaking to all you artists out there, not just Miriam, who I think is a genius as well, but all of you are a big effing deal. Every one of you has an audience that thinks you walk on water. So allow them access to you, even if it’s in your email, even if it’s the funny cat pics that you’re putting on Instagram or the time lapse videos that you’re sharing on TikTok. They want access to you. You are the brand. But if you turn around and say, “Don’t you want to buy my product?” And here it is, then they shrink away because they don’t want to be sold. What they want is a piece of how they feel when they’re interacting with you. You are the brand. Your book or your art is the product. And how they feel when they’re with it is what sells them.
“Don’t you want this book full of paper?” No thank you. I want to have the knowledge. The book is the packaging, the canvas in the frame is the packaging. I want to be able to gaze on this tremendous artwork that takes me back to the seaside that I grew up on. That’s what I am looking for, the promise and that feeling.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. And then I have one last thing that is not really a question anymore. So you say that interview is no place for original thought. Plan your interviews as opportunities so you nail your mic drop moment and you’ve definitely had a couple of mic drop moments with us today, Allison. So thank you for that.
Allison Lane:
I aim to please.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes. All right, so just before we wrap up, I want to make sure everyone knows to go grab Allison’s freebie. She has some really juicy swipes. The one that we recommend for you is Stop Tranquilizing Your Audience. So these are words not to use in your marketing copy. Is that right? Like words to avoid?
Allison Lane:
Yep. Words to avoid. Boring words will tranquilize your reader, your audience. They will chase people away. What you want are words that make people lean in. We avoid words that are tentative, that are general and vague, that are diminishing because you’re better than that. And language offers so much opportunity for richness and illustrative phrasing that with a few selections, you could really nail that and bring your audience to you.
Miriam Schulman:
And I bet I can guess what three of those words are right now. I haven’t looked at your freebie, so if I’m wrong, we can edit off this whole part. But when I look at website copy from my artist and they say things like, “My art seeks to, my art tries to, my art hopes to.” I was like, “No, no, no.” Just get rid of the seeks to, hopes to, tries to, and make it less tentative. Just say, “My art” boom. Whatever it is that you were saying right after that, seeks to, hopes to, tries to. Is that in there?
Allison Lane:
Yep. Any kind of that tentative lane, which especially my mission is… No, we don’t need to know what your mission is because that makes it sound like a hopeful dream. Like, “Gosh, I really hope.” No, I do this. Declarative sentences. We want to understand. I capture moments of tenderness between parents and children.
Miriam Schulman:
And let’s contrast to-
Allison Lane:
Right. That’s contrast to period.
Miriam Schulman:
My art seeks to capture moments of tentativeness. Wa, wa. Wa.
Allison Lane:
It’s like fingers crossed, no thanks. Let us know when you actually do it, is how I feel when I see things like that.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. And you don’t need to say that, just say, “My art captures” blah, blah blah blah blah. Or, “My art does that thing, does that,” whatever it is. Okay, perfect. So my artists definitely need to go grab that. We will be sure to include a link to that in the show notes and links to everything. Allison, Schulmanart.com/235. And just so you know, she also has a course called Rock Your Book Proposal, so if you want to learn the work that we did together, she has a course now that captures that. Do you want to say anything more about that course?
Allison Lane:
The course, the Rock Your Book Proposal is something that everyone can do and it really does take a marketing expertise to nail that business document that treats your book like what it is. It’s a product, it is also a gift and it depends on audience understanding and market understanding and analysis. And also a great freaking book. What I’ve done is just condensed 25 years of marketing expertise into easy to follow videos and templates that are essentially like mad libs because nobody has time to become an expert in a book proposal except me because I love it. But I’ve packaged it because it needs to be more available. Publishing should not be so hard to figure out. And this is 25 years of marketing people.
Miriam Schulman:
And I tell all my friends now, “You need a book and you need a book, you need a book.”
Allison Lane:
Right.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m like Oprah.
Allison Lane:
Right. Well, everyone is sitting on way more expertise than they think and they sometimes need that shove from a friend of, “Stop getting ready to be ready.” And you say this too.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s right. It’s chapter… Here’s the book. I mean, I just had… For people who are listening and not watching, I just held up my paperback book. Yeah, it’s chapter three, Start Before You’re Ready. But it’s really all the chapters, I mean because like choose to believe and keep marching forward. That’s really all the chapters. So yeah, enough with the blaming our boots on why we can’t do something. Just put one foot in front of the other. All right.
So like I said, we’ve concluded links to all these places in the show notes. And don’t forget, Artpreneur is on sale. Hopefully I didn’t get too much perfume on you just now. We are just eight weeks away from it being in the stores or in your mailbox. You can pre-order. The pre-order page is Artpreneurbook.com and we don’t want you to have to wait to start enjoying all that richness.
And that’s why I put together the Artpreneur Affirmations course. It’s 12 videos. It’s a potpourri. It takes you through art journaling exercises as well as going behind the scenes of making the book. I read you snippets from the book and I dish out a lot of advice so you don’t have to wait until you actually get your hands on your book before you can start benefiting from all that work that I’ve put into it over the last few years. Alrighty. Allison, do you have any last words for my listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Allison Lane:
I want all of your listeners to listen up each and every one of you. You are a big f-ing deal. You just are. And you can stop wondering, “Am I ready?” Yes you are because someone out there needs what you’re offering, so you don’t need anyone’s permission. Just listen to Miriam. I do. I’m smarter because of what she does and you are too. You are ready? And I can’t wait to see what you do.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, thanks so much, Allison. It was so much fun having you.
Allison Lane:
I love it. I could be here every day.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay my friend. Thank you so much for being with me here today. I’ll see you same time, same place next week. Stay inspired.
Speaker 2:
Thank you for listening to the Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram @SchulmanArt, and of course on schulmanart.com.
Subscribe & Review in iTunes
Are you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. I’m adding a bunch of bonus episodes to the mix and if you’re not subscribed there’s a good chance you’ll miss out on those. Click here to subscribe in iTunes!
Now if you’re feeling extra loving, I would be really grateful if you left me a review over on iTunes, too. Those reviews help other people find my podcast and they’re also fun for me to go in and read. Just click here to review, select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Thank you!