THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Candice L. Davis:
The reality is people who read books on a subject, they are researchers. Even if they’re not researchers by trade in that category, this is something they want to learn. Very few people are going to stop at one book. They’re going to read several books around that same subject. If there are other books already out on that subject, that’s actually a sign that your book is probably needed. You should have a different angle. You should have a different hook from those that exist, but if you’re writing the first ever book ever like yours, totally unique, you might want to ask yourself why.
Speaker 1:
It’s The Inspiration Place Podcast with artist Miriam Schulman. Welcome to the Inspiration Place podcast, an art World Insider podcast, for artist by an artist where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the art. Now, your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, hello my friend. This is Miriam Schulman, your curator of Inspiration and author of the Book, Artpreneur. You are listening to episode number 236. Now, before we bring on the guest, I just wanted to remind you that the book, Artpreneur is on sale. Holy cow. I am so excited.
I know you’re listening to this in December, and you do have about six weeks to go before you’ll actually get the book in your hands, but that’s why I created an Artpreneur Affirmations class just for you. I’ve talked about this on other podcasts, but in case you’re new to me, it’s basically a potpourri of art journal technique and behind the scenes from the book. I read excerpts from the book and give you some tips for being a success as an art entrepreneur, as well as behind the scenes. But I also wanted to let you know why pre-ordering the book is so important.
I would love to go on tour and meet you. I would love to come to your town or to a city near you. The only way I can really do that is if the bookstores carry the book. Bookstores decide to carry the book based on the pre-orders. What does that mean? The more people that pre-order the book, the more chances are that I’m going to be coming to a bookstore, or maybe even a library near you. I’m planning some things, but I can plan some more things if we sell more books. Hopefully we can work together on this.
Yeah, that’s true. Even if you live in the UK or in Australia, my publisher is publishing in all English speaking countries. Who knows? Maybe I’ll come to your side of the world.
In order to get your hands on the pre-order goodies, and we’re cooking up some good ones. In addition to the Artpreneur affirmations, I also have a giveaway to do an in-person mastermind with me in New York City. If you’ve ever dreamed of that, coming to New York City and also getting Artpreneur advice and leaving full of inspiration and having me help coach you in person for the whole day on your art business, this is your chance. You can win an opportunity by entering, by ordering the book.
To order the book, go to Artpreneurbook.com, enter your name, email, and order number, and that’s it. Once again, Artpreneurbook.com. Now, on with the show.
Today’s guest, host of nothing but the words, today’s podcast guest believes that everyone has a story to tell and knowledge and wisdom that someone else needs. She’s written more books than she cares to count, and she’s coached scores of authors through her coaching program, such as Authors Ignited, and helped them write their own transformative books to achieve their goals. She’s also the coach behind my book, Artpreneur, which is why I’m so excited to have her here today. Please welcome to the Inspiration Place, Candice L Davis. Well, hey there, Candice, welcome to the show.
Candice L. Davis:
Hey, Miriam, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited.
Miriam Schulman:
I can’t believe we finally get to talk again. It’s been too, too long. I was explaining to somebody today how, I just want to know if you heard this from other authors, but maybe not these words, that writing a book is being pregnant with an elephant.
Candice L. Davis:
Well, I haven’t heard an elephant, but being pregnant, absolutely, yes. But when your book gets here, it will be as thrilling, I’m not even kidding, as your baby getting here.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. But you know how elephants have very long pregnancies?
Candice L. Davis:
Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
And I imagine that the labor is very painful too.
Candice L. Davis:
It’s not. Your delivery’s going to be so smooth and easy, don’t even worry about it.
Miriam Schulman:
I don’t even know if you’re going to recognize the book when it comes out. So much has changed since we work together.
Candice L. Davis:
But that’s the process. That’s the process. Especially when you go through a traditional publisher, as you did. The process is that it’s not just your work at the end of the day. It’s really a collaborative process.
Miriam Schulman:
But that’s also true with our work together. That’s why I really enjoyed working with you. It was very important to me that I had an inclusive book. Part of that was getting other people’s input. By inclusive, I’m not just talking about this color of our skin. It’s just also the experiences of other people. You just can’t do that with a self-published book, working completely on your own. You can create a self-published book that has other people’s input when you build your own team around you.
Candice L. Davis:
That,
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Which I think you help authors do as well, is that right?
Candice L. Davis:
I do. But I think the place where people get confused is they see books published. They have their favorite authors, Brene Brown, or Yalo Vanzant, whoever it it. They have their favorite authors. They see those books published. They imagine that author sat in an office, worked for 12 months, sent it to a publisher, and it was published. Or they imagine, if that’s a self-published book, that the person did it all alone. Rarely is that the case. It’s rarely the case, even with traditional publishing, as you have seen, your editor, who works for the publisher, has influenced and helped shape your book. If you had written it all alone, you would not have written the same book that you produced.
Miriam Schulman:
No, absolutely not. But that was part of the reason that I wanted to go through this process. I knew the book would be better because of it.
Candice L. Davis:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
I could not have written this book, the same book that I wrote by myself.
Candice L. Davis:
It’s just that no one does though. Because that’s what we see in the movies. We see an author go off into a cabin and type a book and boom, it’s there. But no one actually works that way. Every author, traditional or self-published who writes a great book anyway, any author who you’re probably following or have fallen in love with, or whose book has impacted your life, they’ve had help my friend. They’ve had a team help them.
Miriam Schulman:
How did you get into helping other authors?
Candice L. Davis:
Oh, wow. I started writing in literary fiction. Okay. Everybody’s like, why would you do that? Because there’s no money in that, right? Well, there is no money in that. It’s not true. There’s money in everything if you can figure out how to make it. But I started writing literary fiction. I started in writer’s workshops. I found that I loved helping the other writers in the workshops as much as I loved getting help. When I got my second divorce and went out into the world and had not had a job in 10 years, and was raising two girls who I was homeschooling and did not want to go back to banking, which is what I did before I had them. Instead, I decided, “Listen, I want to figure out how to do something of my own.” After a few missteps, a few businesses that did not work out, I figured out that really helping people write great books is not just what I enjoy, but also, it’s the gift. It’s what I’m called to do.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, yeah. I found Candice because I knew I needed help.
Candice L. Davis:
We all need help Miriam. That’s the point.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, I had a fantasy that the publisher was going to do with me what you did with me. I know that some editors actually do have a different process, let’s just put it that way, than mine does. I was told when I signed my contract in June of… I don’t even know what year it is anymore, in June of ’21. Oh my gosh. In June of ’21, I was told, “Yeah, come back in six months when you’re done.” I was like, “Wait, it’s not like in the movies where we’re going to sit here. You’re going to smoke a cigarette and tell me how to fix my book.”
Candice L. Davis:
While we have martinis with that.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. I had this picture of… I don’t know, I had this imagination of how that process looked.
Candice L. Davis:
But it wasn’t just your imagination. It’s what we’ve been sold, because to some extent, it’s what used to be. It’s what used to be in the early days of traditional publishing. Editors would work really closely with their authors, but the industry has changed so much that very few editors actually have the time to do that. They have so much on their roster and their catalog that they’re trying to get done that very few have time to do that. It wasn’t just a fantasy.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Okay. I went into one of my book, not book, one of my Facebook groups. I’m not even on Facebook groups anymore. Do you still go on Facebook at all?
Candice L. Davis:
I go on Facebook because I do share my work there, but also, if I’m in a paid course and the group is on Facebook, then I will go for that, but I’m very rarely on there.
Miriam Schulman:
I’m on it less and less and less. I used to go into these Facebook groups. That used to be the only interaction on Facebook. Now, I don’t even do that. But anyway, I went into a Facebook group. I said, who has a book editor, a book coach they like? Rachel Luna, who I love… Is her book coming out soon? When’s her book coming out?
Candice L. Davis:
Rachel’s book, I believe is in February of next year. She has her big event in October. I’ll see her there. She has a yearly event. She’s having that and she’s doing a pre-launch party at that event.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay.
Candice L. Davis:
I believe it’s a February launch date.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Rachel spoke highly of you. I listened.
Candice L. Davis:
She’s great.
Miriam Schulman:
She’s great. I listened to some of your podcasts. I was like, “All right. My prayers have been answered.”
Candice L. Davis:
Yay. I’m glad. I’m so glad. I had a lot of fun working with you on your book.
Miriam Schulman:
It was good. It was not just about editing. It was you. I really needed the cheerleading too.
Candice L. Davis:
It’s a big deal.
Miriam Schulman:
It is. I’m just saying this, not just for you, but for the people I know who are listening, there were a lot of times I was ready to give up, even when I was finished. You don’t even know this. There was a time where the manuscript was handed in. I even had gone through the developmental edit and I was ready to give them back their money. It’s like, “No, they don’t even like my book.”
Candice L. Davis:
You are not the first person to say that.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh, really?
Candice L. Davis:
No, you are not the first person to say that. I would say most of my traditionally published clients hit that ball at some point where they’re just like, this is ridiculous. Because you don’t anticipate how much back and forth there’s going to be with your publisher’s editors. You have the developmental edit, and you have a copy edit, and you have all the things along the way. You don’t anticipate that when you’re sitting down to write your book. You’re thinking, “Well, but I had this whole outline and this whole plan of what I was going to write, and now they’re asking me to change things? Forget about it.”
You are not the first client who has said that to me. Even on the self-published side, people grossly underestimate how many times they need to revise their book with feedback from a professional, but to revise it. If you want something, you can actually be proud to have your name on something. This book is going to represent you out in the world. That takes many revisions to get to where you really want to put your name on it. It doesn’t mean that what you wrote wasn’t great to begin with, but your publisher and the editors who work for your publisher have a vision for what they know the marketplace wants as well.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. There’s a couple of things that was very interesting to me in terms of my evolution with this whole book. One is there was the push and pull of, and they want me to change something. No, I’m going to… This is my message. I’m digging in. This is an invitation for me to go even deeper with this. Other times it’s like, yeah, but is my core message going to be lost if I don’t listen to this feedback? Am I going to alienate and piss people off because I don’t see what I’m saying could be offensive and then I end up helping less people?
Candice L. Davis:
But at the end of the day, you have to trust yourself too, because you’re going to get feedback all along the way. If you work with a coach, your coach is going to give you feedback. If you publish traditionally, or self-publish, you still need an editor. That person’s going to give you feedback. They’re not always right. It’s not even a matter of right or wrong. A lot of it is subjective. Sometimes you just got to buckle down and say, “Listen, this is the hill I’m not going to die on, but I’m going to plant my flag on and I’m willing to fight for this element of my book.” If it really represents you, if it really connects with your readers. I’m thinking about one particular chapter title you had in your book. Do you remember?
Miriam Schulman:
Was it Embrace Your Inner Weirdo?
Candice L. Davis:
Yes, that was it.
Miriam Schulman:
You know what? That one, my agent did not like that chapter title, by the way. I don’t think Michelle listens to the podcast. If you do, Michelle, I love you. But yeah, she didn’t like that chapter title. But I have to tell you that I was looking at Amazon recently, and they have the preview pages. The publisher likes it because they picked that one as a preview page.
Candice L. Davis:
I think your audience is going to like it too. I think it will. But notice you could have just listened to your agent’s feedback.
Miriam Schulman:
That was early on.
Candice L. Davis:
No one in this process expects…
Miriam Schulman:
That was back in the proposal process. That was before we even started working together.
Candice L. Davis:
Yep. You could have listened to that feedback. You could have pulled it out, you could have toned it down, you could have made it more, I don’t know, socially acceptable, a little more vanilla. But, one, it wouldn’t be you. That’s taking away some of your personality. Part of what makes each book that really is a good book different is that we get the author in the book. Not just the ideas, but the author’s personality and the author’s voice.
Miriam Schulman:
No, that was one of my favorite chapter titles and that did not get changed.
Candice L. Davis:
Good. I’m glad. I liked it too.
Miriam Schulman:
I also sell happy endings, which my husband’s not thrilled with. It’s so dirty.
Candice L. Davis:
I love that.
Miriam Schulman:
I know. But that’s what it’s about.
Candice L. Davis:
Poor husband.
Miriam Schulman:
I know. He’s so embarrassed by this podcast.
Candice L. Davis:
Oh, well, my husband doesn’t listen to it, to mine. He edits it and he doesn’t even listen to it. He just lets it all flow past him so he doesn’t have to be there.
Miriam Schulman:
No, my husband doesn’t listen to it either, but sometimes he’ll find out that I’ve talked about something, so he’s paranoid that I share more than what he’s comfortable with, if that makes sense.
Candice L. Davis:
That’s unfortunate, because I’m sure I do the same thing, but it’s all for the benefit of your listeners.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s right. Everything is content. Who said that?
Candice L. Davis:
Everything is content.
Miriam Schulman:
Everything is content. If I slip on a banana peel, I’m so sorry.
My brother is a writer as well. We always used to worry… Now he writes for PBS, or he’s done segments for CNN, but my family was always in fear that he would become very successful, like David Sedaris and share all our secrets. That has not happened. Instead, I have become the person.
Candice L. Davis:
You’re the one doing it?
Miriam Schulman:
I’m the one doing it. I’m sharing it. It’s all hanging out.
Candice L. Davis:
Well, my husband’s a screenwriter and so he understands. He’s coming from the artistic point of view too. He understands that everything’s fair game. I’m quite sure things have appeared in his screenplays that happened in our real life. That’s okay.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, there was… I went to a book talk with Ian McEwen recently.
Candice L. Davis:
Oh, nice.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, actually… Yeah. I’m trying to remember what it was that I loved so much. But in his newest book, the wife leaves the husband to become an author and then writes about their life. He’s very upset about how he’s portrayed in this book. The author, as the character says, “I don’t have to explain to you how this works. You know how fiction works. Some things get used that’s real and some things are made up.”
Candice L. Davis:
That is the reality of fiction writing. It’s also the reality of podcasts, and reality of content on social media. This is the world we live in now. It used to be limited to just those few authors who were publishing books, but we’re all creating content at this point.
Miriam Schulman:
But also, what’s very interesting, and you do talk about this beautifully in your podcast, I hope anyone who wants to write a book should definitely listen to your podcast, by the way. Even in the nonfiction book that I’m writing, I had to rely a lot on some of these creative writing techniques, like collapsing narratives in order to tell a story in a way that people want to hear it. They don’t want to hear, “Well, this happened, and this happened.” They don’t need to get from A to Z. You can skip from M to P sometimes to make a stronger point, or to make it more entertaining or whatever. I’m not saying to lie about things, but collapsing narrative is one of the things I know that you talk about.
Candice L. Davis:
For a short period of time, I taught first grade. My students were all Spanish speaking students. They were lovely. I was in a town in Texas. They would say to me all the time, they would want to tell me stories like kids do. The story would just be [inaudible], and then, and then, and then, which is a great way to get the cause and effect of your story. But it’s like they would put in every single detail, if you have that friend who says, “And then I said, and then she said, and then I said, and then she said.” Well, you don’t want to hear that when a little kid is telling you that story. You don’t want to hear that when your friend is telling you the story about her bad date. You definitely don’t want to read it in a book. When you’re reading a book, what you can do is just close it and walk away. You don’t have to pick it back up. You can’t necessarily walk away from your friend, but you can close that book and walk away. You don’t want to bore readers by giving them every single blow by blow detail that happened in the story. Easy fix.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. One trick that I learned recently, and I think I kind of do this intuitively anyway, is just like, replace the and with the but. You want your slowly blah, blah, blah, blah, but da da da da da. That’s how to tell a story that’s more interesting so you have contrast.
Candice L. Davis:
Yeah. Create something for their brain to be looking for you to change instead of them just predicting what’s going to happen. When you can predict everything that’s going to happen in the story the writers telling, you don’t necessarily want to keep reading because you already know where it’s going.
Miriam Schulman:
All right. I want to ask, I’m curious about other authors you’ve worked with, not without saying who it is, but what are some of the biggest challenges first time writers have who come to work with you?
Candice L. Davis:
Oh my gosh. Okay. One is too many ideas. They have so many ideas and they’re trying to cram them all into one book. They can’t all necessarily fit into one book. We have to really narrow down who is your book for? What is this book supposed to do for that person? What are you promising your readers the book is going to do for them? And then what is the book going to do for you? It needs to, your idea and everything that supports it, all needs to serve that person and serve you. Everybody wants to say, “Yes, I’m writing my book to help people,” and thank goodness you are, but also it has to serve you and your goals as well. Narrow down your ideas into one that fits those three things, your purpose for your reader, and your purpose for you. That’s a huge one.
Miriam Schulman:
So interesting, because I just interviewed Amy Porterfield and I asked her, what is the biggest mistake first time online class creators make? She said the same exact thing, trying to put too many things into one course, but it makes sense because they’re both really two different modalities for teaching. We’re talking about a non-fiction book right now, is that right?
Candice L. Davis:
Yeah. We all do the same thing. I do it. I took a class on speaking last year. The first thing she said to me when I turned in my presentation was, this is too much. You’re cramming too much in here that you’re trying to teach in a 30 minute presentation, or whatever it is. It’s our instinct to want to do that, but at the same time, it’s not always the right vehicle for what you’re trying to say. Trim it back. If you overload people, they’re not going to remember most of it anyway. You’re not really doing them a favor when you overload whatever content that you’re producing.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. That’s a big one. Trying to put too much in. What would be another hurdle? I’m going to change the question slightly. That was like, that’s the biggest mistake. What is the biggest mindset hurdle that first time authors usually have? I know what mine were.
Candice L. Davis:
Probably the biggest one is… Well, there’s so many. Okay, so I’ll give you a couple. One is just not believing they have the ability, the skill, or the talent to write a book. I’m sorry, but writing, yes, it’s a talent. For some people it comes naturally, but it is a skill. Anybody could learn that. But I’ve had people tell me, “Well, when I was in law school, my professor told me I was a terrible writer,” or, “Well, when I was in sixth grade, I got an F on this essay and I’ve never forgotten it.” They carry from previous experiences this idea that they’re not a great writer and therefore cannot write a book, forgetting that you can become a great writer. These are just skills. It’s a set of skills that you can develop.
Another big mindset issue that I find people have is they’re already in love with, I’m going to use the word guru, but obviously you know what I mean by that. I just mean a big expert, not a traditional guru. They’re in love with what some guru says. Let’s say they’re a personal finance expert and they follow Suzy Orman. They feel like they can’t write a book because Suzy has already said everything there is to say in this field, but you don’t have Suzy’s experience. If you go through Suzy’s books, I guarantee there’s some elements that you disagree with. You’re bringing a whole different experience, but they get blocked by the people that they’re in love with.
I’ve had so many people tell me they wish they could write Brene Brown. I don’t even like Brene Brown’s books. Now, I like Brene Brown and her philosophies, but the writing just isn’t for me. If I have another author who’s writing about shame in a writing style that reaches me, how valuable is that? But they’re not doing it because they feel like, “Well, I can’t write it as well as Brene Brown.”
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, I have that in my art community. I can’t create this because, let’s say with a class, somebody else already teaches this. Or how is my art different than whatever? To me, it’s just like restaurants. I’m a big foodie. Are you a foodie too?
Candice L. Davis:
It’s so big. Yes. Big foodie.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. It’s ridiculous. We already have a Mexican restaurant, we can’t have another one. It’s like, come on.
Candice L. Davis:
Yeah, there’s got to be 10 in a 30 minute driving distance from my house.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. If you like Mexican food, you want all the Mexican foods. Especially though when it comes to self-development. People who self-development books always can hear it a different way because we haven’t started doing it yet perfectly, at least last I checked.
Candice L. Davis:
The reality is, people who read books on a subject, they are researchers. Even if they’re not researchers by trade, in that category, this is something they want to learn. Very few people are going to stop at one book. They’re going to read several books around that same subject. If there are other books already out on that subject, that’s actually a sign that your book is probably needed. You should have a different angle, you should have a different hook from those that exist, but if you’re writing the first ever book ever like yours, totally unique, you might want to ask yourself why.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. Do we really want a book on the emotions of basket weaving? I don’t know. I’m trying to make up something that’s really…
Candice L. Davis:
Right. I’m good without that, and probably the world is good without that.
Miriam Schulman:
Just to be very clear and vulnerable, I think my listeners have heard me say this in a million different times and are probably sick of it, I had severe imposter syndrome throughout the writing. Like I said, even when I was done, I was ready to hand back my book advance. “Ugh, they don’t like my book.”
Candice L. Davis:
But that’s totally normal, especially for the first time that you’re writing a book and you’re going through a traditional publisher. There’s all the pressure of meeting their approval as well. It’s perfectly normal. Why would you feel a hundred percent confident in something you’ve never done before? You would be superhuman if you actually felt that way.
Miriam Schulman:
But what’s really interesting is now that I’ve written the book, I used to use a lot of copywriters to help me with my emails and my business. Now I’m like, “I’ve written a book.”
Candice L. Davis:
What’s an email? I could do 20 of them right now.
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly. And then, the swipe file is called, My Book. I don’t need to go look at what X, Y, Z guru has written to see. I don’t. I’m just like, “Okay, what did I say in chapter nine?”
Candice L. Davis:
Let me just say, so here’s one thing I loved about your book, because I run into a lot of experts, especially experts like you who have courses and coaching programs and things like that, who are afraid to give too much in their book. Not in the way of they don’t want to be too broad, but they don’t want to go too deep because they’re afraid, “Well, if I give it to them in the book, why would they ever hire me? Why would they ever take my program? Why would they ever get coaching from me?” You really gave… The promise of your book can be met by doing the things in your book.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh yeah. One of the things, which is why I’m excited actually for you to see the new version of the book, how much has changed. For people who can’t see Candice, she made a grimace.
Candice L. Davis:
I’m excited, but I’m also…
Miriam Schulman:
No, I think she was wondering, do I really have to read it again? I read it five times.
Candice L. Davis:
No, that is not it at all.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s what I’m thinking you’re thinking.
Candice L. Davis:
Not at all.
Miriam Schulman:
Oh my gosh. I have to read my book again because I don’t remember what I wrote. People interview me. They’re like, “In chapter three…” I was like, “What was chapter three?” Now when I used to interview authors and they wouldn’t remember, I would assume that they had ghost-written it.
Candice L. Davis:
Oh, no. But you see how much your book has changed.
Miriam Schulman:
Yes, and not only that, it takes years to write. Who remembers what I wrote two years ago? Not me.
Candice L. Davis:
Exactly.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Maybe that’s the part that I didn’t edit recently. One thing that changed quite a bit is there were things that I took on as this is the way it is because this is my experience and I got a lot of pushback, appropriate pushback with a lot of the editors. Can you back this up? I had to do a lot of research to back things up. Also, things changed, a lot, as we all know in the last three years. People’s shopping behaviors has changed a lot because of Amazon, because of the pandemic, because of George Floyd and the social justice movement. It’s like there were so much that happened in that book between the time you said goodbye to it, and I wrote versions, whatever, two, three, and four, because I had to go and find the research to back it up. It’s like, “Oh, actually this is a whole another step. This matters. This is important for the book.” Oh yeah, you think you and I are the only ones who shop with our values? I was like, now there’s a lot of research in the book backing this up. This is… The conscious consumer is a thing.
Candice L. Davis:
But okay, so that’s exciting to me on a couple of levels. One, it sounds like the changes you made, because sometimes people feel like the changes their editor pushes them to make don’t make their book better. In fact, they think it makes it worse. But it sounds like you feel good about the changes.
Miriam Schulman:
There is a few things that I took out that I’m not going to say I regret because I barely remember what they were, but yeah, there was a few changes I was like, “Maybe I didn’t need to take that out,” but I put a lot of stuff in that definitely made it better. One thing, Candice, that I didn’t know that totally surprised me. I thought we just write a book as long as we want, whatever it is, it is. I found out that they decide on the day they write that check, the book advance, how long my book is going to be. It’s 240 pages. If you turn in 260 pages, they’re making the font size smaller.
Candice L. Davis:
Yes. [inaudible] business, if we recall.
Miriam Schulman:
It’s like, what?
Candice L. Davis:
They’re paying for those pages that they’re putting in that book. This is a… One, they know what their readership wants in terms of how long a book this particular audience wants, but it’s a business my friend. You increased their cost by increasing the page number. No you didn’t, because they made the font smaller so you did not have more pages.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. I saw somebody’s book whose font size was too small and I was very unhappy, and they designed it. Of course, I insulted the very same people who… I was like, “Please don’t let my font size be this small.” They’re like… I realized, “Oh, my foot is way up my mouth right now.” Then I had to double back and be extra nice to all these people.
Candice L. Davis:
You didn’t know. You didn’t know my friend.
Miriam Schulman:
I did know. I was like, should have known better than to say that. Sometimes I just say things. Oh, it’s such a disease.
Candice L. Davis:
I’m pretty sure we all do.
Miriam Schulman:
Was there a point that I was getting to before that had something to do with…
Candice L. Davis:
Well, we were talking about your changes. Were you happy with the changes that were supposed to make?
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah. There were a few things they wanted me to change where I was just, “Hell no.” One of them, I don’t think you were involved in this where one of the… There were several editors. There was a developmental editor, there was a copy editor, there was Linda who says her only title is editor, so I call her my hot girl editor. Anyway, the developmental editor didn’t like one of my sub… Oh, and by the way, thank you for helping me do all the, this is the heading one, and this is the subhead. They were such sticklers on that.
Candice L. Davis:
Yeah.
Miriam Schulman:
With the subhead.
Candice L. Davis:
It’s boring stuff, but you got to.
Miriam Schulman:
It’s boring stuff. But yeah. One of my headings, or subheads, I forget what it was, was keep it kosher. My developmental editor, who actually is also Jewish, said, “I don’t think most people will know what this means.” I said, “I don’t care.”
Candice L. Davis:
Well first of all, is that really true? It’s a pretty common saying. I’m not Jewish.
Miriam Schulman:
Well, the copy editor came back, who I don’t think listens to the podcast, the copy editor came back and said, “I don’t know what this means. Please rephrase.”
Candice L. Davis:
Get out of town. Get out of town.
Miriam Schulman:
I know. I went back to Linda, I was like, “What should I do here?” She’s like, “Well I don’t know if this should be a subhead.” It was some sort of comment like that. It wasn’t like she had a problem with the hierarchy of it. I said, “I’m not taking it out. If you want me to explain what kosher is for middle America, I’m happy to do that,” and then I made some snarky remark about, “Okay, now you know what kosher means in case you didn’t watch enough Seinfeld. I can’t help you.” I think it’s in a lot of Seinfeld episodes.
Candice L. Davis:
I’m just thinking, even Middle America gets TV.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. I think Koshers in the Urban Dictionary. I don’t think it’s that obscure.
Candice L. Davis:
That’s mine… It wouldn’t even have occurred to me that that would’ve been something they had an issue with, but that’s interesting because it just depends on who your editor is.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s right. There were a couple things they had an issue with where I was like, “Okay, yeah, this could be sensitive and I’m okay changing it, but that one I wasn’t,” because I felt like taking that out, I’m being inclusive. I don’t need to whitewash myself.
Candice L. Davis:
It waters down your own voice.
Miriam Schulman:
Right. Exactly. It waters down me and it waters down anybody who’s trying to express themselves and embrace their inner weirdo, which is the whole point of my book. It’s like you’re supposed to embrace this.
Candice L. Davis:
I also am not resistant to readers looking things up if they don’t know what they are. They can either skim over it, like, “I don’t know what she’s talking about, keep it kosher, so I’m just…”
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly right.
Candice L. Davis:
Or there’s Google at your fingertips. This is not the old days when you had to go to the library and get a dictionary. You can just Google it. If you really don’t know, you could find out what it means. On that type of thing, one, why water down your voice? Two, I highly doubt that most of your readers will be unfamiliar with the term, and three, if they are, they are free to look it up.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s right. I don’t get Game of Throne references because I don’t watch that.
Candice L. Davis:
Me either!
Miriam Schulman:
I’m life lived.
Candice L. Davis:
I don’t watch it, but at this point I almost get the references because everybody’s talking about it so much.
Miriam Schulman:
Exactly right.
Candice L. Davis:
No, it’s fine. I don’t watch that. Yeah, so I’m glad you kept it.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, and they had a problem with I had too many Harry Potter references too.
Candice L. Davis:
I would never have a problem with that. Some of ridiculous Harry Potter fans. I’m the worst person to give you feedback on that because I’m like, “Keep it on.”
Miriam Schulman:
No, you liked it too. I was like, “Eh, I don’t know. I’m leaving it in.”
Candice L. Davis:
That’s a movie franchise that appeals to the weirdos. Yes, it definitely had mass appeal, but I remember going to midnight premiers of the movies and midnight releases of the books with my kids and it was all the theater kids and the artsy kids who were there. That’s who’s going to be reading your book. It’s going to be those kids who were the artsy kids and are now adults.
Miriam Schulman:
That’s right.
Candice L. Davis:
It doesn’t matter if they were kids at HP, but they were kids who were the nerdy kids, the artsy kids, the weirdos. They’re going to be reading your books, so they will get and appreciate those Harry Potter references.
Miriam Schulman:
Yeah, and there’s like other Easter eggs for the super nerds out there.
Candice L. Davis:
Yes. You get deep on your literary Easter eggs.
Miriam Schulman:
I do. Yeah, I’m explaining… The Easter eggs will be in my book bonuses, so I put together an art journal. Each… I don’t know if you remember this, Candice, each title is a mantra, tells them what to do. Everything’s an action verb, embrace your inner weirdo, keep marching forward. That’s the last chapter that had a lot with existentialism. I create an arsenal page, so it’ll be fun for people who are actually visual artists. I’ll share some of the technique, but I’m also going to give them a little bit of the stuff that I’m not… I didn’t completely share in the book.
Candice L. Davis:
How will they find your bonus content?
Miriam Schulman:
Oh my gosh. You’re like… It’s like I scripted you on how to help me promote my book. We’re trying to put together a Vanity URL, which I’m not really sure I know the point of it, at artpreneurbook.com because it’s not any easier to spell or say than schulmanart.com/book, but both will work. They will all be in the show notes, along with, this is probably a good place to start wrapping up, along with all of Candice’s links. Nothing But The Words, her podcast. Candice, would you please tell people about your program, Authors Ignited?
Candice L. Davis:
Yeah. I created this program because I wanted to give authors what I didn’t have when I was struggling to write my first book. A few of those things are community. That’s at the top. I was shocked by what a difference community made for me as an author when I was writing my first book. We have community there. We also have a place for you to get compassionate accountability. We will help you stick to your writing goals, and I have a whole process in there that walks you step by step from validating your book idea, all the way through writing. We meet regularly for group coaching calls and we meet regularly to write together, and to get feedback on your work. It’s Authors Ignited.
Miriam Schulman:
I love that. Just so everyone knows, I worked with Candice as a one-on-one client, which you have information about that on your website as well. Is that right?
Candice L. Davis:
Yeah. That’s just CandaceLDavis.com. If you really don’t do the group thing and you’re looking for one-on-one help, you can find it there.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. Or if you think you’re special like I am.
Candice L. Davis:
You are special.
Miriam Schulman:
I actually did wish I had a community. It’s just that I was under a deadline, so I knew I needed the full support.
Candice L. Davis:
Your deadline was tight, so you had to get it done.
Miriam Schulman:
It was very tight. I do have now author friends. I think it’s super important to surround yourself with people who are doing the same things as you and having the same struggles, and also celebrating the wins. It’s really encouraging to see other people succeeding. I think a group is extremely valuable. Candice was such a good resource for me. It’s not just about the editing, to just really understand how to be kind and compassionate and to give critique in a way that… Yeah, so I was not prepared when the criticism was less kind when it came back later, by the way.
Candice L. Davis:
Not from me.
Miriam Schulman:
No, not from Candice, and not from Linda either, just so you know. Some of the other unnamed people that we like. [inaudible]
Candice L. Davis:
It happens.
Miriam Schulman:
By the way, don’t forget, if you want to win that free mastermind in New York City Experience with me, which is part of the Artpreneur Accelerator experience, all you have to do to enter is go to artpreneurbook.com, order your copy, your paperback copy of Artpreneur, enter your name, email, and order number, and you’ll be all set.
What last words do you have for our listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Candice L. Davis:
Well, my last words would be whether you’re writing a book or you’re doing some other kind of art, whatever you’re creating, find a way to do it from a place of joy and desire. In the writing community, particularly the literary fiction community, there’s a whole thing about how this is this painful thing that we do because we’re called to do it, but we have to do it, but we suffer through it. You’re pouring yourself on the page and it’s so painful, and it can be that right, but I find it’s much more exciting and much more pleasant when you can focus on changing your thoughts about writing so that you can write from a place of joy and desire. That applies to any art that you’re creating.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. I love that. All right, my friend, thank you so much for being with me here today. If you enjoyed this episode, wherever you’re listening to it, take a screenshot of it and tag us. Candice, what’s your handle on social media?
Candice L. Davis:
@CandaceLDavis.
Miriam Schulman:
There you go. Candice L Davis. It’s Candice, like C-A-N-D-I-C-E L Davis.
Candice L. Davis:
Ice cold. Yes.
Miriam Schulman:
Okay. Oh, okay. I love that. Of course, you know I’m @SchulmanArt, S-C-H-U-L-M-A-N-A-R-T. We would love to have you spread the love. I’m sure you know somebody who would benefit from the show. All right, my friend. Thank you so much for being with me here today. I’ll see you the same time, same place next week. Stay inspired.
Recording:
Thank you for listening to the Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram @SchulmanArt, and of course, on schulmanart.com.
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