THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Elise Darma: Taking it back to YouTube and content strategy. Like I said, you have something that you can physically show and touch and that in itself is a huge value. So don’t discount that because when it comes to making content, the easiest thing you can do is simply record and show yourself making your art.
Speaker 2: It’s The Inspiration Place podcast with artist Miriam Schulman. Welcome to The Inspiration Place Podcast, an art world insider podcast for artists by an artist where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the art. And now your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman: Today’s guest is known for her video marketing expertise in helping individuals who may not be Instafamous make substantial revenue through their businesses. With her no-fluff courses and membership, she has empowered over 30,000 people to build more profitable brands. Her focus on tangible results and revenue generation sets her apart as a marketing educator who understands the importance of building moneymaking brands. She’s been featured in Forbes, Entrepreneur, digital marketer, social media examiner, and way too many to list them all right here. Please welcome to The Inspiration Place, Elise Darma. Well, hey, welcome to the show.
Elise Darma: What an intro. I’m super glad and pumped up now to chat with you all about our juicy topics, so I’m excited.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. So, Elise, the reason I invited you is because even though you have 180,000 Instagram followers and most people do interview you about Instagram and TikTok, know you’re mostly known for that. You also have 120,000 YouTube subscribers, so we’re going to focus on that today if that’s all right with you.
Elise Darma: Absolutely. I love talking about new topics and new marketing channels that don’t get a lot of attention in my world and thought.
Miriam Schulman: In fact, there was something you shared right before we hit record, which was like, you haven’t posted a video in a year. Can you share that again, that statistic?
Elise Darma: Yeah, just today I was I’m reviving my channel. So I started growing my YouTube channel in 20 oh, I always forget 2018 or 2019. I believe it was 2019. I’d have to double-check, but that was the year when I wanted to get consistent and committed because I knew it was an amazing organic source of traffic. But I wasn’t, I wasn’t in a system. I wasn’t publishing consistently. So we had published consistently for a couple of years and saw really good growth. And then in 2022, we hit 100,000 subscribers. So we didn’t blow up overnight. It was definitely a couple of years of consistency. And then in the summer of 2022, that’s just when I stopped posting. Business was changing, funnels were changing, products were changing, offers were changing, the team was changing. I just needed a break from it really. We had created this well-oiled machine system and I decided to take a step back from it and focus on other aspects of the business. And so I kind of found myself in a bit of a case study to see what would happen when you build up a channel of 100,000 subscribers and then you stop posting. So that’s basically me today. It’s been almost a year since I posted my last video, and just today I was looking at my channel analytics to see what was going on in this past year and we still got over 1.3 million views in the last year. We still generated almost 14,000 new subscribers, even though I wasn’t posting new content. And the estimated revenue that YouTube paid me for having ads turned on on my channel is almost $14,000. So not bad. I was more impressed than not.
Miriam Schulman: That’s amazing because $14,000 of passive income for many people is life-changing.
Elise Darma: Exactly like it worked out to be, I don’t know, 1500 to 2000-ish a month. And every time I got that deposit from YouTube, it was like, Oh, yay. Didn’t expect that, wasn’t relying on it, didn’t expect it. But that’s a nice surprise.
Miriam Schulman: Let’s decorate the nursery. You want to share just a little bit of your personal story? So I know you just moved from Canada to….?
Elise Darma: That’s right. We’re living in Barcelona, My fiance and I. That was also part of the pause was I just needed some time to settle into life in a new city, but new country, a country where I don’t speak the language. And also the pace of life in Barcelona and Spain is different than in North America. I was living in Toronto for the prior 12 years. And, just to stereotype an entire country but the lifestyle is very much geared to live and experience your life first, work second. And in North America and the way I was operating in my 20s and 30s was definitely work first. I loved the hustle culture. I loved hustling in my 20s. I loved building this online business. Now I’m 36 and just getting here and getting used to the pace of life. Like, you know, there’s siestas in the middle of the day. They’re still a real thing. There’s a lot of late night terrace hangouts and connecting with your friends in real life, talking to them face to face. And it meant spending less time in my business. So it was a bit of an adjustment period. And then we decided to shake things up a little bit more and have a baby here. So I’m expecting a baby in a couple of months. So let the next adventure begin.
Miriam Schulman: Congratulations. Okay, so now we’re ready to dive into our first question. I think you’re going to like this one. As an elder millennial and someone with experience in both the pre-Internet world and the digital marketing world, how have you seen YouTube evolve as a platform for–And we’re going to speak mostly to artists, but if it’s not exactly artists, it’s just for people. That’s fine too. And what opportunities does it offer now?
Elise Darma: Good question. And you just reminded me of a moment back in 2006, and I was on the transit going to university. Studying, I was doing a communications degree and someone had a newspaper open in front of me and they looked up at me and they were reading an article and they said, What is YouTube? And this was 2006. Youtube was very, very young. Wait, was it 2006? It was somewhere around that period of time and or maybe it was 2008. But I remember that moment where someone couldn’t wrap their head around what this YouTube platform was for video. And to be honest, I barely understood it myself. This was when social media networks were just starting to take off. And by that I mean, I was on Facebook.
Miriam Schulman: Myspace.
Elise Darma: Yup. MySpace, I’d been on as a teenager, but Facebook was very, very rudimentary. It was like you had your wall, right? Your wall was where you put your updates. And then I remember when photos came out and having the ability to post a photo was huge. And then all of a sudden, last night’s party turned into a whole album on Facebook, which you would probably never do today. But that was our behavior was like, Hey, last night was great. Let me share these photos with you through my Facebook wall and post the whole album. So I’ve seen this evolution, and then I got into social media marketing in 2010 as a social media marketer, which basically meant Facebook and Twitter at the time. Those were the two networks, and I started dabbling in YouTube as a university student. So again, in 2010, I just started vlogging. I started recording my life as a student. I wanted to be an on-air broadcast journalist, so I thought this would be a cool way to just put my degree into action, start storytelling, start editing videos. And I had a channel which is archived, but somewhere on the Internet. And that was my I can’t remember who my inspiration was at that time because that was when the YouTube celebrity wasn’t really a thing yet. But there were a couple channels where, you know, everyone heard about them. Everyone talked about them. LonelyGirl13, I think was one of them that comes to mind. And it was really an artistic project where the characters were acting, but we were following the videos as if we were following someone’s real life. So it was kind of like reality TV. And so I would say by the time I started to take YouTube seriously as a commitment, this was 2018, 2019.
I saw it mostly as a search engine. So it had evolved, right? It had–it was very preliminary in the early days, and now I really saw it as a search engine, which would complement Google. So we were already as a business publishing blog posts. We were ranking on Google. I knew we were generating free traffic from Google and I wanted that video traffic as well. So our strategy initially was and for many years it was to focus on what are the keywords and the key search terms that someone is looking for and looking for help. And if my video can be an answer, then they’re going to get to know, like and trust me and be a subscriber and become a customer. So that was our strategy for the first 2 to 3 years and it worked great. That’s what got us to 100,000 subscribers. I would say today, from what I’m learning from experts who didn’t pause their channel for a year, but the algorithm has changed and the user behavior on YouTube has changed as well. Where I would say that YouTube is probably prioritizing less a topic that’s stuffed with keywords or is a search term that you would see on Google and what they are showing more on your YouTube home feed. What they’re showing more are videos that have story in them, videos that make you feel something.
I think YouTube’s really leaning into becoming a Netflix. Becoming a version of Netflix where people go on to YouTube to kind of turn their brain off. Like they want to be entertained. They want to be amused. They want to be inspired. When someone is on YouTube or Google looking up a solution to their problem, like, how do I write my Instagram bio for business? They’re going to see my video, get the answer they want and then probably bounce, right? They might not hang around, but if someone is on YouTube and they see a video where I’ve entertained them, maybe made them laugh, maybe taught them something, they’re more likely to feel something about me, more likely to subscribe, engage and stick around. So that’s my understanding of YouTube algorithm today, is that you can still go after those keywords and go after those search terms and you will get traffic. But if you really want to be shown in front of a new audience, from what I’m seeing and testing myself right now, storytelling and giving people a reason to kind of care about you or stick around for more, that’s what’s being prioritized in the YouTube algorithm.
Miriam Schulman: That makes a lot of sense. And it also goes along with my own behavior. I actually canceled Netflix and my husband and I only watch YouTube.
Elise Darma: Really?
Miriam Schulman: Yeah.
Elise Darma: You have go-to channels that are like your TV channels now?
Miriam Schulman: Well, basically, we like the news, but we prefer consuming the news not as an endless stream, but like, okay, let’s look at the headlines. So we look at, you know, our channels MSNBC or whatever. What are the headlines? Is there anything here we want to see more of? And then there’s a couple of not like network television, but there’s a couple of I’m very progressive liberal, so there’s a couple of YouTubers who we follow because we like their commentary. So but it’s always like, let’s look at the headline and then it makes us more selective about our viewing time. So, yeah. All right. So let’s get into some of these key elements that makes a successful YouTube channel. What strategies, what content type or formats would you recommend for artists to focus on? Because I’m sure this isn’t too much different from what you’re teaching in Reels and TikTok, is that right or no?
Elise Darma: I would say that what I’m learning about the YouTube algorithm, it is similar to what we’re seeing on TikTok and Instagram. I mean, TikTok has a bit of a search algorithm aspect to it, so it kind of has pulled from YouTube. But at the end of the day, it’s it’s there to entertain. And I think most of these platforms are trying to compete with Netflix. I think that’s what their goal in mind is.
Miriam Schulman: So if artists want to engage their audience more, what do you recommend that they do to maximize that engagement in the growth?
Elise Darma: Well, first of all, anyone who works with a physical product or works with their hands or works with a good that they can see, touch and feel, I’m jealous because I work in the info product space. I work in the digital product space. I can’t actually touch my online courses and show them to you. So for artists, I have artists in my audience often and they struggle because they feel like Instagram is not for them anymore. They feel like they’re at a disadvantage because their offer aka their art doesn’t solve a problem. And a lot of times us educators were talking about, well, share your value. You know, what’s the transformation You can give someone? And the artists in my my industry and my audience, they say it’s just it’s just nice art that someone wants to put on their wall. Like, what’s the value? And I think there was room for a bit of a mindset reframe. I would say just as an external person, not in the art world. I think people undervalue that value that they are giving someone. They’re giving someone beautification of their home, they’re giving someone happy feelings, good feelings. There’s value to that.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah, I think this was something that we talked about in the last time I interviewed you because I think I interviewed you in 2020 and during the height of the pandemic. And art is what gives our life meaning in all modalities. Especially in a time where there’s a collective crisis, the world needs art more than ever. So if you can share some of your meaning behind the art, in the storytelling and the way Elise is talking about, that’s what people need to hear from you. And I’m always more drawn to art when I understand either the story of the artist or the story of the art behind it. It’s not just the 2D representation of whatever it is. It’s always, what is the artist trying to say with this art? What do they say? What do they say out in the world that has nothing to do with art? All those things make a difference to me, and those are the artists that I follow and admire.
Elise Darma: Absolutely. You’re right. I am getting flashbacks of this conversation. So it’s something that I’ve felt strongly about for many years. And, you know, I know artists have certain internal things to overcome. There’s the whole trope about being a starving artist and that sort of thing. So taking it back to YouTube and content strategy, like I said, you have something that you can physically show and touch and that in itself is huge value. So don’t discount that because when it comes to making content, the easiest thing you can do is simply record and show yourself making your art. And it sounds so simple and it requires some planning, right? Like you need the camera, you need the tripod, you need to have the battery charged or get one of those plug-in battery connectors. But there are so many niches, especially on YouTube. So first of all, go ahead and type in your specific art niche on YouTube and see what content people are creating. But I think in 2020, I just saw an explosion of micro niches like the most random niches take off on YouTube because people were looking to escape. They were looking to tap into a life that wasn’t theirs when they were stuck in a condo in lockdown. So I think of my fiance as an example. He is the most eclectic YouTube watcher I’ve ever met. He follows farm life quite, quite closely, follows a few YouTubers who just track their day working on the farm. Him and I live in Barcelona. We live we don’t live anything close to a farm life.
But that’s why he finds it fascinating. He follows chefs. He’s now following a vegan chef somewhere in the UK. We’re not vegan, but he just loves that that look into someone else’s life. And generally I find he goes for these calming niches like farm life, cooking, anything to do with animals. I remember in the pandemic we were watching a man build his cabin in the woods in Ontario. He wasn’t even talking on camera. He was just making his fried egg, showing us his kitchen, going out and chopping wood. And it was so relaxing. So when I think of artists, I think of you giving that experience to other people because you don’t even have to talk on camera. People love just hearing the sounds that you’re making in your studio. ASMR is a huge niche on YouTube as well, and they love just seeing you in your natural environment. You don’t have to perform. You can film in hyper-lapse or time-lapse. If you wanted to do like a sped-up version, let’s say you’re you’re creating something that would take you two hours. You could film a hyperlapse or time-lapse version of it so that people can see the result in 5 or 10 minutes. That’s one way that you can film or produce your content or you can film it in real time and give yourself the option. Just post a one-hour video of you making your art. And if your viewers, if the algorithm finds what you’re doing interesting and people are watching for like 30, 60 minutes, guess what the algorithm is going to love you because you’re keeping people on the YouTube channel longer than my videos that are five minutes.
Right? So that’s why we’re seeing this long-form content. We’re seeing–I’m seeing videos even in my space now get bumped up to 20, 30, 40 minutes because the algorithm more than anything prioritizes the length of time that people are spending watching your videos. Yes, it’s important to get the click. Yes, it’s important to. Well, actually, I’d say it’s not that important to get a comment. But the algorithm, think about YouTube as a business. Just like any TikTok Instagram, they want their users to stay in the app. If you’re creating content that’s keeping their users in their app, they’re going to love on you for that, and they’re going to show your content to more people that it believes would be interested in your content. So that’s what I would do as an artist. I would create I mean, you probably already have a studio. I would just add a bit more equipment to make it more of a video production studio, which again you could literally just start with your phone on a tripod. I think we talked about this last time too. You don’t need anything crazy, right? Like this is all from Amazon. This is a tripod. This holds my phone. That’s all you need. And just set yourself up to film and post and see what happens.
Miriam Schulman: Okay? And for those of you who are not watching this on YouTube and are listening, I’ll make sure that we link the tripod and the holder that Elise is talking about in our show notes. So this is episode 267. So if you go to Schulman Art dot com forward slash 267, you’re going to find that and everything that we’re talking about today. So don’t worry. We’ve got you. And I want to just add one more thing, Elise, because a lot of artists think they have to share their techniques. And I just want to remind artists that unless you’re trying to attract students and you’re an art teacher, you do not need to share techniques. And I wouldn’t share my techniques because then you’re attracting the wrong client for what you want to sell. Do you want to say more about that?
Elise Darma: So just so I understand by a technique that would be…
Miriam Schulman: Like the how-to. You don’t have to teach people how you create your art unless you want to attract students to your art classes.
Elise Darma: Yeah, exactly. And so that in my mind says you don’t even need to speak to camera. You’re not you’re not there to teach. You’re just there to simply exist and show your life. You can be off-camera. You don’t even have to show your face. I know many YouTube channels where you literally just see their hands. That’s okay too. So it depends. Sounds like I’m new to the art world myself, but it sounds like your audience might be concerned that they don’t want to show their process. They don’t want to show.
Miriam Schulman: It’s not that. But they think that that’s what they that’s the only thing they can think of to share. And they’re used to being an artist. They’re used to talking to other artists, and that’s what they’re interested in. But just remember that if you want to find someone to collect your art, you’re going to be attracting the wrong people if you’re sharing. How so? It’s not about talking on camera, not talking on camera, but what you talk about. If you want to attract art collectors, share more the why behind your art rather than the how. So it would focus on that.
Elise Darma: And if you were to talk. Exactly. That’s the part that you can speak to is what inspired you to create this. Where did you get the idea for whatever you’re making that day? That’s something that a collector would resonate with.
Miriam Schulman: Okay. So you talked a lot about analytics. So how can we use analytics to refine our content or tailor what we’re putting out there?
Elise Darma: So a huge, huge aspect of YouTube is the fact that you can make the most amazing cinematic, eye-pleasing video. But if your title and your thumbnail do not kind of sell someone into clicking on your video, you’re not going to get the view. So a lot of times people will focus and hyper-focus on what the content of their video is going to be. Myself included, This has been the majority of my focus for years. And then the thumbnail and the title are kind of an afterthought, but you should really be thinking about your thumbnail and your title first and then make sure that it is going to be interesting enough. And this is maybe more of a business perspective for an artist. You might not have to think this much into it, but for me, I really think about what is the title that kind of intrigues someone, piques their curiosity. I can’t give it all away. And this is, by the way, a different way of titling than I have in the past. And in the past it was all about search terms, how to use a sauna, right? If someone’s typing that in, that’s the title of my video.
We’re moving away from that on YouTube and now it’s much more like a hook or a headline using some of your keywords, of course. And then the thumbnail also is a great place to create some mystery and some intrigue. So that’s why if you go on to YouTube right now, all you have to do is scroll your home feed and the algorithm will recommend videos that it thinks you might be interested in based on your watch history, based on its connection to your Google account, all that data and just take a look at the thumbnails and see which ones are catching your eye. Because today, more than ever, people are spending a lot of time, thought and strategy into their thumbnails to create that mystery, to create that allure so that people get the click. You have to get the click in order for your video to be seen. So again, this might be more emphasized for the B2B space, like what I’m in, you know, an artist might not an artist just might be able to put a thumbnail of their art and call it a day. But I do think about that.
Miriam Schulman: I do think that artists should always use faces on their avatars. And I would also say on your thumbnails, because people want to connect with other people, they don’t want to connect with faceless brands. That was something that I definitely learned from you, Elise is like your profile picture on Instagram. You’re either and I know you’ve done it both ways. You’re either making eye contact and it’s a nice, happy, you know, friendly picture or you’re looking to the right to look at the feed. So if you look at Instagram, Elisa’s Instagram, which we’ll link in the show notes, it’s just Elise Darma. Is that right? That’s right. So you can see also her background is a bright color, so which you can all do in Canva. And the other thing I learned from you, Elisa was on YouTube. I moved away from making pretty pictures of myself. And it’s more like the goofy face, like the, you know, like these really exaggerated, almost clown-like expressions. That’s what’s going to pull people in. And you’ll see people, even influencers like Marie Forleo, who used to always be about the pretty. Her YouTube thumbnails are no longer about the pretty anymore. It’s all about the very weird and clown-like faces.
Elise Darma: Yeah, because psychologically I’m going to be more intrigued and curious to click on that weird-looking picture versus that perfect-looking picture. That’s the thinking behind that. So if you’re an artist listening to this one and thinking, Oh, I don’t want to be on camera, I’m off camera, the easiest thing you can do is have someone take a bunch of photos of you doing a ton of different expressions, you know, and don’t make them too like I would basically shoot them shoulders up, maybe chest up. So it’s pretty tight to your face. So do all the expressions. Shocked is a big one. Mildly shocked. Really shocked. Wowed. Impressed. Angry. Super happy. Super sad. You really want to put your eyebrows to use and get expressive and you’ll feel stupid. You’ll feel silly. But that is is what is working today. And what I would do is I would load them all into Canva. Canva then has a really easy-to-use background eraser tool, which I can’t remember if it comes with the free or the paid account, but it’s worth it, especially if you’re going to be making your own thumbnails, but load everything into Canva.
Use the background eraser tool because you know if you’re shooting against a white wall, you need to edit and add some color. And once you have yourself cut out with all those different expressions, it’s very easy just to choose the right cutout of yourself for the next thumbnail that you’re. Making choose a colorful background. Maybe it’s on brand, maybe it’s bright neon, whatever, whatever works for yourself. And then back when we were creating thumbnails quite consistently, we often would make my face about one-third of the thumbnail real estate, and then we would do text for the rest of the two-thirds. So that again is more for the B2B space. I would check out how other people are doing it in the artistry world in your niche, because sometimes you might just need your art, a tool that you’re using and your expression, and then the text can go in the title. So I would play around with it, but that’s generally how you can easily make thumbnails.
Miriam Schulman: I mean, I see that in the progressive liberal videos, commentator YouTubers that I follow who have like 1 to 2 million followers, they use head You know, it’s usually a, you know, a Trump-bashing video of a funny looking picture of Trump with a, oh, he’s finally in trouble. They’re like, finally, okay, All right. Okay.
Elise Darma: So whatever gets to click.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah, right, Exactly. All right. Beyond YouTube, artists often have a presence, of course, on other social medias, mostly Instagram. How can artists integrate their YouTube strategies with their overall online presence so that it becomes a more cohesive and effective brand strategy?
Elise Darma: Well, if I were to hone in on my social strategy as an artist, I would just choose two platforms, especially if I’m overwhelmed with all the recommendations I would. And this is something you’re probably going to hear me teaching more about, especially in the next year. But the two most powerful platforms for business are YouTube and our Instagram. Youtube. Just like those stats I shared at the beginning, I built up this channel and it still gave me views, subscribers and revenue without me doing anything more. This is the best long game we have out of any social media platform. This is the best investment of your time. Yes, it requires the most work. I’m not going to lie about that. But if you get your YouTube channel and system up and running and make it consistent, I believe this is where you’re going to see the biggest ROI for the long term. And I’m even starting to see some people come out and say now like short-form videos are a waste of your time because the shelf life is so much shorter and you don’t get you don’t get this sort of payout as a creator from any other platform as well. Like I know those farmers who are farming. I know a majority of their income is not coming from the farm anymore. It is YouTube paying them because they have a million plus subscribers who are watching their day-to-day farm life and a million plus subscribers at whatever their view count is. I always do the rough math of how much revenue they’re making. They’re probably passively making $50,000 a month from YouTube.
And so the return on your investment with YouTube is huge. The second platform I would focus on is Instagram because it is the best place to connect with people on a more intimate basis. And yes, you have subscribers and you have people who comment. But the type of people on YouTube, it’s harder to connect person to person. It’s less personal, it feels like. But when someone finds you and follows you over on Instagram, that’s where they can literally DM you, That’s where you to basically it’s like them texting you, right? And that’s where your customers often come from, especially if they first discovered you on YouTube. And then they want to follow more behind the scenes of your life or whatever the case may be. Or you can even include it in your videos. Like Come chat with me on Instagram however you want to bring people over. But Instagram is still the best sales tool for business because all the options we have to connect with real people and use the direct messages to close sales. I’m still a huge advocate of of Instagram, even if even if sometimes you’re on Instagram and you’re like, Oh, my following is so low, my views are so low, I look, I don’t look that popular. It never surprises me when someone on the outside has, quote, low numbers, but they’re closing sales in the DMS. That’s the that’s the norm. So you don’t have to worry about looking famous. It’s really not about that. It’s about connecting with your customers and your people privately in the DMS 100%.
Miriam Schulman: That’s what I talk about also in Artpreneur. Instagram is really about the connection. Yeah. So worry less about the following and the entertainment. I mean, there’s that too, but it’s, it’s really the most valuable thing you can do on Instagram is connect. So I am a student of Elise, which is why I’m so happy to share your program with my listeners and my followers. And we have a special today for our listeners or watchers. If you go to SchulmanArt.com/Elise, tell us a little bit about what they’ll find over there.
Elise Darma: Yeah, So you’re going to be taken over to my program called On Video. And currently it’s all about using short-form video for small business owners. So what kind of video ideas to make that aren’t based on trends, aren’t based on dances. Because majority of my audience, they don’t want to do that stuff. But what kind of video can you make that will actually be worth your time, whether it’s 10s or 30s, to bring clients over to your business? So that is a membership that you can join called On Video. And every single week you get five fresh video ideas that can be used for TikTok or reels, whatever your platform of choice is, or both. And between you and I, there’s a reason why I call the membership on video. I didn’t make it specific to short-form video because YouTube is an amazing platform. And so who knows, maybe one day it could expand to include some YouTube marketing strategy or long-form video strategy. But right now it is your go to place for short-form video ideas that convert for business owners.
Miriam Schulman: Okay, fantastic. Okay. So we’ll include that at SchulmanArt.com/Elise, everything’s in the show notes. Again, this is episode 267. That’s SchulmanArt.com/267 or just pop, right down into the show notes YouTube. You know, it’s right below on podcast, right in your podcast app. All right, Elise, do you have any last words for our listeners before we call this episode complete?
Elise Darma: Absolutely. Just like what we talked about. Get your work out there. Don’t be afraid of what Susie from grade six might say or think, but put your work out there. You never know if it’s going to be found by the right person who’s looking for exactly that.
Miriam Schulman: I love the way you pick Susie I had to write in my book about a mean girl, and I named her Susie.
Elise Darma: Sorry, all Susies out there.
Miriam Schulman: When I was in high school in the 80s, Susie was a very popular name. So I just went with it, you know.
Elise Darma: Guess I was thinking along the same level, so.
Miriam Schulman: All right. Fantastic. All right, everyone, thanks so much for joining me. I’ll see you at the same time, same place next week. Until then, stay inspired.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to The Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart on Instagram @schulmanart and of course, on SchulmanArt.com.
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