THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Nick Lewis: I understand the need to want to do whatever you want as an artist. But once it becomes a business, it’s not all about you anymore. You have to take the audience’s desires and wants into account when you’re sort of designing kind of your next venture.
Speaker 2: It’s the Inspiration Place podcast with artist Miriam Schulman. Welcome to the Inspiration Place Podcast, an art world insider podcast for artists by an artist where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the art. And now your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman: Well, hey there, my friend. This is Miriam Schulman, your curator of inspiration, and you’re listening to episode number 315 of the Inspiration Place podcast. Today, we’re talking about a few of my favorite topics: building a YouTube channel, interior design, and how to make money from your creative business. To help me today, our guest started his YouTube channel in 2020 after noticing a gap in the interior design space on YouTube. As a result, he’s created an educational community to discuss all things interior design. He makes it practical, accessible, and at the same time, snarky and funny. The channel now boasts over 600,000 subscribers, and he’s here to tell us how he did it. Please welcome to the Inspiration Place, Nick Lewis. Well, hey there, Nick.
Nick Lewis: Hello. Hello. Happy to be here. Hello.
Miriam Schulman: Thanks for joining me. So, I made my husband watch one of your videos the other night.
Nick Lewis: Okay. How’d that go?
Miriam Schulman: Really really well. I was worried because he doesn’t like all everything I watch on YouTube. But we watched the one which was about Gen X, millennial and boomer trends.
Nick Lewis: Mm hmm.
Miriam Schulman: He definitely agreed with you about he does not like the plastic furniture. And I’m a Gen X-er, so there was like a moment where he said, you were talking about the moon and stars. What was that, friend?
Nick Lewis: Oh, the celestial decor. Yeah.
Miriam Schulman: Yes.
Nick Lewis: Yeah, that one, that one, because I did a previous version of that one and that one came straight out of the comment section. People were like, you need to talk about that. And I was like, oh my gosh, I forgot that existed.
Miriam Schulman: Well, he said, “You had a blanket just like that.” I was like, “Yes, I did.”
Nick Lewis: Yeah.
Miriam Schulman: The blue blanket with the yellow sun and the stars. It was like, Holy cow.
Nick Lewis: Yeah, yeah, it was a thing. And I think people love those videos. I did a millennial versus Gen Z one, and then Gen X-ers and Boomers were like, “We need to be in on this as well.” So I did one. And then that’s sort of what happens sometimes. I sort of find what works on YouTube, and then you kind of double down on whatever works. The audience, I mean, they click on what they want, right? So you got a lot of metrics to tell you the content direction you should go in. They’re fun videos to make. I love them, and the audience loves them too. So that’s always a great sign.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. What I really like about you, Nick, is that you’re just not afraid to really tell us what you think. And my God, if another YouTuber tries to sell me a Tom Ford book or something plastic from Amazon, like, no.
Nick Lewis: Yeah, this whole thing has really, I think, taken off in the last year is this line where people are tired of influencers and content creators peddling crap, and they know why they do it—because obviously it’s very profitable—but they’re kind of sick of it. It’s not that I don’t talk about products, but I just think like, I don’t know how not to be truthful about the stuff I don’t like. If I don’t like something, the audience picks up on it. And I just—I mean, you’ve seen my videos. I just basically sit there with no script, I’m just freestyling, and telling you what I think. I can’t really lie to the camera that way. So, I just try to do right by my audience, and that always means being truthful.
I understand some influencers; it’s hard to make money in this world, in this sort of creative space sometimes, which I know we’re going to talk about today. But lying isn’t the way to get there, you know what I mean? Telling people they need more plastic crap. Over the last year, people have really enjoyed these videos where I talk about de-influencing, which was a huge video for me that got like half a million views in a week. It was huge, talking about the stuff you don’t need. I went on a little rant. I did a video last year about Temu, which is, of course, the huge Chinese company shipping crazy cheap goods. I did that video, and people really enjoyed it.
Miriam Schulman: Alright, here’s what I want you to do. When you go over to Nick Lewis’ YouTube channel, I want you to comment under his videos and let him know that you’re a listener of The Inspiration Place podcast and that you heard him on my show.
Nick Lewis: I get why people do it. I get why influencers do it. but I just think the audience is sick of it. I know I am, and that’s why I wanted to share it.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah, I am too. I mean, I recently started an Amazon influencer channel. They invited me, and I thought this would be a great way for me to support my book and also reach a new audience. Within a week of opening this channel, I got a message from this lingerie brand offering to send me free lingerie because they love my channel. I was like, really? But I haven’t posted anything yet. And then I realized, oh, this is the free underwear brand, or whatever pajama brand, that influencer XYZ is always pushing. Oh, I get it now. So like.
Nick Lewis: Yeah. And I mean, I get dozens, like dozens of those emails a day that come through, and you have to wade through all the stuff because, you know, at the end of the day, if I don’t have the trust of my audience, we all pack up and go home. I’m under no illusion that brands that want to work with me or products are using me as a vehicle to sell. I get that. But if I lose trust with my audience by sharing crap that I don’t like, that doesn’t do right by them, they all leave me. And then where am I in all this? Right? They’re going to find another influencer to sell through. In the end, I’m the one that loses.
So, I just sort of say what I think. I’ve been told that a lot, that I tend to share what I think on the internet. I just don’t know how to do it any other way. And I just look at it as like I’m 41. I’m so over trying to pretend. If this all blows up tomorrow, I’ll just go get another job, you know what I mean? I love doing what I do, but doing it in a way that is authentic to me is crucial. If I don’t do it that way, then I feel like I’ve lost, and I might as well just pack up and go home.
Miriam Schulman: Right. So we are definitely going to unpack what you were hinting at before, like how do you make money on YouTube, etc. Because I know my audience would love to learn from you about that. But one of the reasons I invited you to the show is that you actually value art. Unlike some of the other people I follow, it’s like, “Yeah, let’s just put a print up over here and put two prints that are exactly the same right next to each other.” It’s like, no, that’s not art anymore.
So that’s one thing: you do value art. But the other thing is, when I’m working with artists, sometimes they can have tunnel vision about what it means to be an artist and what it is that they’re creating. They come to me to help them learn to make money. It’s not that I want them to not be true to their artistic vision, but there is an intersection where you can push yourself as an artist and be more marketable to what the desire is that’s already out there.
So, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about, as someone who’s in the interior design space, is how people can choose art that also fits in with what is trending. So they don’t hang up art on the wall and have someone walk into their house and say, “Oh yeah, they’re a boomer,” you know?
Nick Lewis: Right, right, right, right.
Miriam Schulman: Who is following the Thomas Kincaid trend or—
Nick Lewis: Yes, yes. Um hum. Yeah. I think what I would say to that person is, “Is this a hobby or is this a business?” And I think understand the difference and be honest about which one it is. Because you know, you could even say I’ll use a YouTube channel as an example because it’s a creative endeavor in a way. It’s different art, but it is. It’s a video production, and I’m creating art in a way. It’s not the same, I’m useless with a paintbrush, but you know what I mean. It’s still art in its own way.
And it’s like do you start a YouTube channel because you want to be a content creator that monetizes their channel, or do you want to be a person that just uses it as a hobby to create fun videos? Therefore, you don’t care how many views it gets because you’re basically uploading a video of your vacation to Hawaii for your family or friends to see. You’re not monetizing that. You’re just using it as a way to share video. It’s a hobby. It’s not anything more than that. So if it’s a hobby, do whatever you want. Paint it yellow, paint it green, paint it fuchsia for all I care.
It doesn’t matter. You’re not trying to sell it. It’s truly just that. If you’re painting truly for yourself or creating art truly for yourself as a hobby, who cares what anybody else thinks, right? But the second it becomes a business, now you’re asking someone to give you money in exchange for that. That’s where it starts to become trickier. Yes, you want to create what you want, for sure. I love to create videos that I love to make, but at the same time, you need to recognize that it’s not just about you anymore. It’s about the person on the other side who is actually going to be giving you money in exchange for this product because it’s a business now.
So it’s kind of like, I don’t know, having… I used to own a juice company in one of my past lives, and if I had a juice on my menu that was my favorite, the one I loved and drank every morning, but the sales were down—if it was a dud—I would have pulled the juice.
Miriam Schulman: If you had Brussels sprouts juice. Now, I love Brussels sprouts, but not as a juice.
Nick Lewis: Right? Exactly. Guess what? It’s not going to sell. And now you might love it, but it’s not there for other people. So you have to go. At the end of the day, we all recognize that when you have a business, and I know it’s different because it doesn’t feel creative, but it is a business. You go, “Okay, well, I ultimately have to pay my employees and I have to pay rent, and I’ve got to pay all my costs of goods. I’ve got a business to run here, right?” So, I have to hopefully have juice that I like, using my own palette to guide my decision, but ultimately pull the products that aren’t performing.
And I think I kinda have that lens when I look at my channel. Whether or not you fully subscribe to the art business idea, I think it’s important to look at your business sometimes through that lens. Is this for me? Or is this also for the people that I’m trying to sell to? Because the second you demand money for it, or you expect that because you’re running a business, it’s just not about you anymore. You also have to consider what works.
So, if you really want to paint everything blue, but your audience is telling you they love red, then maybe start to think about how you can incorporate more red in, or continue to paint blue and get frustrated. That’s the reality. You’re just going to be frustrated all the time. And I don’t think that’s a fun way.
Miriam Schulman: I can hear what some of my listeners are thinking right now: “Whoa, that’s not real art. You’re not a real artist. I just want to be a real artist.” And that’s why I always like to trot out Michelangelo. He wanted to only be a sculptor. And when the Pope came to him and said, “Paint the ceiling,” he was like, “But I’m a sculptor.” He took the money.
Nick Lewis: It’s like money. Yes. Pitt? Yes.
Miriam Schulman: Hope I will be pimped out to paint the ceiling. Now. Now, here’s the. Here’s the lesson in all this. None of us look at that ceiling and say, “Yeah, that’s not real art. He didn’t follow what he wanted to do.”
Nick Lewis: Right, and I do understand that to a certain extent too. I look at my YouTube metrics to find out what videos perform and what videos don’t, and I double down on the ones that do. Sometimes I take risks and creatively try out videos, and then they bomb, and I go, “Well, that’s annoying because I loved that video.”
But you know sometimes, people in the YouTube space, they kinda used to say, “Two for them, one for me,” almost like a ratio where they make two videos that they think the audience will love, and then one that’s just for them. This keeps them in the good graces of the audience, giving them content they really enjoy.
I understand the need to want to create that and paint or do whatever you want as an artist. But once it becomes a business, you’re going to have to take the audience’s desires and wants , and there’s no better way of measuring that sometimes than sales into account.
So, yes, take some risks with blue paint if that’s what you want to do and try to find that audience that’s going to love what you do there. That’s a huge part of it. But recognize you don’t have to do this, but recognize that you’re going to sometimes be banging your head against a wall if you’re just creating stuff that no one wants and expecting it to be a business.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. So if you’re disappointed with sales, I mean, if you’re doing amazing with sales, don’t listen to us.
Nick Lewis: Oh, God. Then you’re right. Then you’ve got the perfect match, which is what you love, what you do, and the audience loves what you do. And I’m not saying just go for the audience and forget what you want, but find ways to create that intersection. That’s really what it’s about, right? Like, I recognize that sometimes a little secret. I don’t want to always make a video about interior design. I would love to make a video that’s maybe about something completely different, like a cooking video, but I recognize that no one wants to see me cook lasagna, so I can either create another channel and create another sort of, you know, revenue stream that way and try to make that business work and see if I can make it work, or I can give the audience what they want, recognize that’s my job as the creator, find ways to find it fulfilling at the same time to get that perfect intersection. But just recognizing that once you’re asking people for money, it’s not all about you anymore. You have to take them in, too.
Miriam Schulman: Okay, so let’s talk. There’s a couple questions that are coming to mind right away. Um, so 600,000 subscribers. That’s a heck of a lot. I and you’ve been doing this for four years. So when did you first start getting traction?
Nick Lewis: Yeah. So I started in June 2020 and I had never made a video before, so I would never have really like, thought of myself as a particularly creative person. Um, I studied business, I didn’t study interior design. I was like, I always thought of myself as a business person who did when I had those juice company. I had a few stores, and I loved the design process, but, um, I found that that I just decided to start a channel. I mean, I don’t really know. I did a renovation. I was trying to figure out what to do. I was stuck at home with everybody else, and I was like, you know, I did learn some stuff. I had worked with different designers. I always appreciated and loved design. So I thought, I’m just going to start a channel. And that was June 2020. I really loved the metrics. I actually, because again, the business side of me, I loved seeing the like, what was working, what wasn’t doubling down on what was working. And then it’s, well, still taking risks along the way, of course. And then by the time I think probably I got monetized in October, but I was probably making like 20, 30 bucks a month. Um, and then by the time I got to January, which is not long, like just two and a half months later, I had a video that went viral, completely blew up. And from January till now it’s been growth from there. So January was the moment where it all kicked off, and that’s when I went to over 100,000 subscribers in like a month.
Miriam Schulman: And what was that viral video we all want to know?
Nick Lewis: Yeah. It was um, again, it’s sort of you mentioned I’m not afraid to say what I think. I think before that I was doing what I would call a lot of educational content. It was a lot of like how to choose a rug, how to, you know, I did a Ikea Pax wardrobe review. I did like, paint colors. You know, how to choose a white paint, very educational stuff, which worked well in the pandemic because people were renovating and whatever. But then people kept saying in the comments “You know, I want to hear more of what you think.” And so that video was like, I’m over it. Interior design trends that need to go. And I talked about some interior design trends that had been really hot for a few years and just sort of said, I don’t like these trends at all. So I think word art or farmhouse was on there. Double Kitchen Islands was on that list and it was about an eight minute video, and it was just me kindly ranting about the design trends that I was quite sick of, and it just really went crazy. I don’t know, it just seemed to have struck a chord with people. And yeah, it just took off.
Miriam Schulman: Well, that makes sense because that’s the kind of content that I prefer from you. Also, it’s like, yeah, don’t tell me if it’s Swiss coffee or whatever, because who really cares? And then, you know, just just make fun of things that don’t harm that aren’t really hurtful to anybody. So it’s like making fun of a trend. It’s like you’re making fun of something that doesn’t really hurt anybody. Well, it may hurt someone’s feelings if they’re like married to their potpourri and they’re blue furry toilet cover.
Nick Lewis: But but it’s never personal. It’s anonymous over the internet. And I always think there’s like a, I’m always walking that tightrope of trying to be kind while also reading something to fill. You know what I mean? Like trying to, like, kind of walk that tightrope of how do you make fun of something while also doing it in a kind and a little bit more gentle way. And I, I think the audience, for whatever reason about my personality, I don’t know why, but it seems to that that style of balancing those two things seems to have somehow resonated with people, and that’s kind of become my brand now.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. Like there was something you had posted recently about, well, if I were to come out with merch, what would that be? And I think what was popular there was among that says, well, I love it for you.
Nick Lewis: Yeah. You know, it’s like, yeah, but.
Miriam Schulman: Not for me.
Nick Lewis: Yeah. I think there was another one. I said, like esthetically unappealing or I said just just trying to find ways that are and I don’t. It’s also like it doesn’t it’s not scripted. Right. I think that’s the thing. It’s also just genuinely my personality. I’m not I’m not trying to hurt anybody, but I am trying to share what I think and sometimes what I think might apply to some people. But they seem to, I don’t know, like it’s like maybe it’s just the Canadian in me that’s like people find like I’m being kind but also roasting things. And I think, I don’t know, that seems to have resonated.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. So I discovered you around the time I was selling my house, when the real estate agent and the stager kindly let me know that, you know, brown furniture from Ethan Allen isn’t really in style anymore that you bought when you got married and you thought it was super cool and you thought would never go out of style, guess what it did. Uh, so can we get rid of as much as we can before we try to sell this house? So that’s when I started. I was like, I had no clue. I had no idea this stuff had gone, like, really? A camelback sofa is not timeless. I had no idea with a, you know, I didn’t know that a roll arm sofa was going to go out of style. Like, I thought this was forever.
Nick Lewis: So who knew?
Miriam Schulman: Right? Now I do. So, that’s when I discovered you. I was like, okay, I get it.
Nick Lewis: Yeah. People seem to love that. There’s something about watching a video and thinking, number one, am I going to be on this video? In which case I’m there’s a bit of fear that I’m going to be called out any second. But again, it’s safe. It’s like you’re sitting there on your phone, you’re on your couch, whatever. You know, you’re being called out, but you’re doing it in a way that’s not like a friend or someone who’s coming to your house saying, oh my God, you’re filth is hideous, right? Like it’s it’s done in a way, you know, that that you feel like it’s gentle and also at the same time, that camaraderie of I, you know, a person that’s like, I love interior design, but I want Nick to make fun of something that I also don’t like. Right? There’s like, yes, there’s the I don’t want to get called out. But it’s funny if I do, but also if I don’t get called out and he calls out something that I also hate, that’s fun too. Uh, so I think people enjoy that aspect of the videos.
Miriam Schulman: Well, it’s like when my husband said you had one of those celestial blankets. I absolutely did. Like, I thought that was cool, too. So, uh, the one thing I want to bring this back to our to our listeners who may be content creators themselves, I know for me that the most popular podcast episodes and my content is always the five things you don’t want to do the five biggest mistakes of. So if you’re, for example, an art teacher, like the Five Things Never to Do when you’re with your watercolors or the five, whatever. So just just so you know that in general, what we’re talking about also will work for you for anything you put on the internet. People always. They, in fact, they prefer the what not to do even more than the what to to do, I found. Do you agree with that?
Nick Lewis: I do, I think a lot of people, a lot of content creators, they create the thumbnails and stuff and the titles even before they start. I don’t go that far to create the thumbnails before I do the video, but a lot of people work on the positioning on what you’re going to say before you actually sit down to film. Right? So I have a method that I do just basically make sure that I know exactly what the title is going to be and how it’s going to be positioned, because sometimes it’s not about saying, like, you might say the same information, but structuring it in a way I think that the audience is going to connect with and they’re going to want to know. It’s like it’s like it’s like there’s something beyond the door, you know? And you’re like, what’s beyond what’s beyond the door? What’s on the other side of this? You want to create sort of that mystery in the, in the, uh, the content to kind of get people hooked on what’s on the other side of that door. So like, what you’re saying is true. Like, if I were to do a paint color video, if I were to say the five best paints from Benjamin Moore, that might get some clicks.
But if I were to say, do not paint your house these five colors, people want to know what that means. Like what? Well, what if I have the five paints? I don’t I don’t want to make those mistakes. I don’t want to paint my house a crappy color. So sometimes just. And sometimes it does feel like it’s going negative on social. It doesn’t always have to be positioned negatively, but just being really mindful of like, how is this going to land to the audience? Because sometimes I have really good ideas for videos, but I just can’t think of how I’m going to position it so that it’s going to actually get clicks. No one’s going to watch it, you know, it’s like, oh, I think it would be really interesting to do this video, but I can’t quite find the angle the audience is going to get in on. You know what I mean? That they’re going to really enjoy and and actually click and watch the hook can picture the hook.
Miriam Schulman: Pull back your curtain a little bit and tell us what is your process for choosing a title and a content for a video?
Nick Lewis: Yeah. So I have an employee as well. So we work on this together. But a lot of what I’m doing is I, I typically like I have a Milanote is the software that I use which I really enjoy. And Milanote is, is kind of like Evernote but for creatives. So it’s a lot more visual.
Miriam Schulman: Can you spell that again? Yeah.
Nick Lewis: Yeah. M-I-L-A, Mila. N-O-T-E, Milanote. I love Milanote. I have my whole life in Milanote now, but that’s not an endorsement. But it just is. Uh, it’s just great. And so what I do is I create a board for each each, um, YouTube video. And that’s where I put all my photos and any, like, clips and stuff that we want to add in, put any notes that I want to say in the video. And that’s what I use to actually go sit down in my living room. But basically when we’re coming up with topics I’m looking at, you know, just ideas that come to us, I’m looking at, which I mean, seems generic, but sometimes you’re just around town and you’re just like, I should do a video on that. Um, sometimes it’s seeing what works, um, on other people’s social media channels. So not necessarily like, not necessarily related to interior design, but let’s say I’m watching a finance channel and they’ll say some topic that I’m like applies to finance, but I’ll be like, I could twist that and turn that in that same sort of little nugget and turn that into interior design.
And again, I would look at the views. So if I know it’s performing well on their channel, it’s probably going to perform well on mine. Right? So I’m being mindful of like what is gaining traction on the platform. I do look at other platforms, TikTok, Instagram, see what sort of series people are doing. I also double down on what’s working if I have a video, if I have a video that’s performing really, really well, um, you know, and people are loving it, then I’ll go, you know, five like I did a video on like five impractical home decor. So these are beautiful items that are just really impractical. People loved it, turned it into a series, did a part two, did a part three. Right. So sometimes there’s a lot of that as well. And I have topics just like broad topics like what’s new at Ikea because people love Ikea. And I kind of revisit those every few months. And before you know it, that’s that. That populates my whole calendar. So it’s actually not that hard to come up with ideas.
Miriam Schulman: So you have like certain categories that you’re always looking to fill. Like this is this was inspired by something in other industries. This is the Ikea rotation. This is the de-influencer.
Nick Lewis: Seasonal like if Christmas time is coming. So I’ll do a decorating video probably get that scheduled in for early November. So it’s you when you’re a content creator. It’s it’s a lot of live and die by a content calendar. Right. It’s like here’s the calendar for the year. Slotting in videos. And then if there’s sponsors that sort of feeds into it. So I don’t do a lot of like a lot of creators will do a video specifically because it’s tied to a sponsor. You know, they might do a I don’t know, Sony might come to them and say, we want to do a video with a person who does photography. Well, you might do a video on photography sponsored by Sony, but it has to go live on a certain date. So I don’t do a lot of those. But that’s also part of the story is like, is there a sponsor that kind of motivates when something would be when something would go live? But that’s it. You’re basically there’s just this march of this content calendar, and you’re always just slotting in all these different ideas from all these different buckets of ways. You sort of find and source great content.
Miriam Schulman: How far in advance are you batching your content and what is the size of your team? That’s two questions.
Nick Lewis: Yeah. So sometimes, I’m sitting there, you know, we’re editing Wednesday, Thursday, Friday for the video, going live on Saturday. Not proud of that, but sometimes that does happen. Um, I love to be three four videos out would be amazing. So, usually what I’ll do is I’ll. I don’t usually batch a lot. It’s kind of it kind of takes a lot out of you to film because it’s so high energy and whatever. And honestly, I just noticed that if I’m filming two or 3 or 4 videos in a row, which is like a month’s worth of content, it really takes it out of you. So I just tend to try to stick to one a day. Um, I have two editors who work for me part time. Well, three kind of, but I really only use the third one maybe a few times a year. But the two main ones that I use and that’s great to have two editors, because that means that if I do two, since I do one video a week, it means I can start to get ahead. If I only had one, I would just be on that treadmill and so would he.
But I was able to have two. And so that’s great. I sort of kind of split them off, do one each one week. Um, and if it takes a week to make a video, that means that I can double up. What I try to do is if I can get 3 or 4 weeks out, that also means that theoretically, I can go on holiday and I can go on vacation for a week, which you should build into, even as an entrepreneur, that you should build in some time off. Um, and I can, you know, if I’m sick, for example, or I want to take a vacation, I can do that knowing that Saturday’s video is up and live and ready to go. So ideally 3 or 4 weeks would be amazing. Does it always happen? No. Sometimes life gets in the way and I start slipping back and I go, oh, I need a video for Saturday, but I’m trying to get ahead of it. I also so I have my two editors part time, and I also have a full time employee as well.
Miriam Schulman: Okay. And what is the full time employee do?
Nick Lewis: So she is doing a lot of, um, the video ideas for sure, gathering a lot of the photos for me. So we work together on a lot of that. So typically how we do the edit is that I go in and film. So she kind of preps a lot of the video. So do I. Sometimes I prep, sometimes she does. I go in front of the camera, I film, we send all the photos and any video B-roll over to the editor. Um, I send my A cut. So that’s me in front of the camera. And I basically tell my my editors, like, you have full kind of creative control. Like, if I say something stupid, cut it out. If I say something great, keep it in. Like, do whatever you need to do to create a coherent first edit. And I’m not married to my content. Like if you if I’m like, I think I made a good joke there. I’m like, I don’t care. I don’t even remember what I say half the time. So I let them go do their thing. We get version one back, um, which might take a 2 or 3 days, and then we watch version one, and then we basically put a bunch of comments in Frame, which is a software that’s used for video editing a lot, and you can timestamp all your comments.
We basically put new photos in. We tell them to change this, change that, and then we work off of version one, two, three. You know, sometimes even version four. Uh, and that’s what then makes it to YouTube. So my, my employee, she’s doing a lot of that revisions as well, because watching a half an hour video and providing a ton of feedback might take you a good 2 or 3 hours. Um, and meanwhile, I’m doing Instagram and TikTok. She also does some editing as well. So it’s kind of a team effort really. The only thing I can outsource is me in front of the camera, right? But everything else she’s really good at, like, she I’m almost at a point now, which as an entrepreneur is amazing, where I can have a video prepped for me, I can sort of approve it, get in front of the camera and then hand it off and basically almost get it to YouTube with just my team.
Miriam Schulman: That’s great. So I’m going to pretend that my listeners want to know about my process too. And just like answer that question. So with podcasting, I love to be a month ahead. Meaning that by middle of June. So right now Nick and I are recording on June 20th. So I actually feel a little bit behind because like the mid mid of the week, I like to have all of the following week recorded. That doesn’t mean they’re produced, but they’re recorded. This is Podcast World and I have one editor on my podcast, and I also have somebody who’s full time on my team who kind of does quality control and all the other things that are not editing YouTube. We don’t really have a system yet. I love your idea of having two video editors because we only have one, and I have a team member who does many other things. Not the podcast person, but a different one who does many other things. And it’s almost like in her spare time she helps with the YouTube, but I can see how it’s really a full time job that we probably need to expand our team. If I want that to be like a real channel. I mean, yeah, channel, but like that is a to make that work as well as the podcast channel does.
Nick Lewis: Yeah, I’m very fortunate there also a husband and wife team. So it’s even better because it’s like the they they sort of trade off each other as well. Right. So if one of them is busy the other one can sort of take it. And um, that that is super helpful. And then when she’s doing a lot of that video production stuff, um, honestly, like even things like brand partnerships, um, negotiating all my different brand contracts, um, reading all the contracts, going back red lining them, reaching out to brands I want to work with, responding. I have two managers as well. So they’re non-exclusive. So I manage a lot of my own partnership stuff, but I have a couple of people that when they find great partners that want to work with me, they reach out to me and we go through a lot of that negotiation. Um, so a lot of that work is also quite a bit of time, and that’s sort of what I do as well. So she doesn’t really touch that as much. That’s more me.
Miriam Schulman: Okay. So you have contractors that help you though find brand partnership is am I right with what I heard you say?
Nick Lewis: Yes yes, yes. I’m a big believer in like I yes, I like I think that contractors can be great for doing a like for, for mastering a skill that I don’t have. Like I know how to do everything in my business, but I’m not the best at everything in my business, you know, like, I know how to I know how to edit a video. I edited all my videos from that, that June that I started until probably, yeah, probably a year. That first year I pretty much edited almost like every video, but I’m not as good of an editor as my editors are. So yes, I know how to do it. I know how to communicate with them. I know what they’re saying when we when we have conversations about it. But I also know that they’re better at it than me. The same goes for a lot of the brand partnerships. I know what my rate is. I know what’s a good contract and what’s a bad deal, but they’re experts in their field, so it’s nice to have contractors to lean on when they have skills in areas that you just don’t have.
Miriam Schulman: That’s amazing. Okay, so, Nick, uh, you told us you were making $20 a month in October 2020. And I thought you said you would share what you’re making now, am I right or should I edit that out?
Nick Lewis: Yeah, I’m an open book. Yeah, I don’t care. Well, I remember talking to my mom that October and I was like, I have this very clear memory where I was like, I think this, like YouTube thing, which at first, let’s be honest, I was a 38 year old YouTuber. So I was like, this is a dream job for a 14 year old, right? Like I’m not feeling like I was like, it’s a weird job to be 38 and be like, I’m gonna start a YouTube channel. Like. So my friends were all like, that’s cool. Why is Nick talking about Ikea on the internet like it was? It was kind of weird, but I remember saying to her, I was like, this YouTube thing, I think it’s going to pay my cell phone bill for this month. And she was like, oh, that’s lovely, like, good for you. And then I remember—
Miriam Schulman: She was probably thinking, so can I get you off of my plan now?
Nick Lewis: Yeah, exactly. It’s nice to have a little bit of extra little money on the side, you know? That’s fun. And then I remember talking to her in like December, so like six weeks later, maybe a month later. And I was like, I think it’s going to pay my mortgage. And she was like, it’s going to pay. Like she was dumbfounded because of course, when I was growing up, like that was the thing, like, no matter what happened, you pay the mortgage, you know what I mean? Like, we were not going out for dinner. You’re not getting a new any new clothes for the month, like we’re cut off there. No vacations, but the mortgage is getting paid because, well, the bank’s not impressed when you don’t. So that she was like, that’s incredible. Like, that was amazing. And then it started. Yeah. It shifted, I would say. So then I started, I think my 1st January. I’m going to try to convert to US dollars just because I’ll have to do the math from Canadian.
Miriam Schulman: No, just say Canadian dollars and we have an international audience anyway.
Nick Lewis: Okay, good. Yeah.
Miriam Schulman: So screw them if they can’t convert it.
Nick Lewis: I wanted to say that that January, I think it was something like 20 something thousand US, in the month of January, which I was, I was completely blown away that that was possible doing literally sitting in your living room making fun of stuff that you see from HomeGoods. Like, how is that a job? What a wild world. Um, then I started doing brand partnerships, which of course, I signed contracts that I cannot state how much I make for brand partnerships, but I would still say that a video on average can make you, like, make me anywhere between like a not great video might make me 15 hundred to a grand. A good video, like not an amazing video, but like a pretty average one might make me 4 or 5. So if you think of that and that’s what I make on Google AdSense, which is the ad, the skippable ad you see at the beginning of YouTube, if your audience doesn’t know. So that’s that skippable ad that’s half. That’s already YouTube taking its cut.
So you think all the brands on that channel have paid double that. So if I made $4,000, that means YouTube’s made let’s say $4,000, so on. You know what I’m saying? Like in total, the brands have probably paid eight to be, you know, if I’m making four, they’re paying eight because after YouTube’s cut. So if you think of that’s what I charge for a regular old skippable ad, a lot of these sponsored posts are going to be usually more than that, because you’re getting my endorsement and the creative and the production and all the rest of it. So that kind of gives you an idea in terms of what a brand partnership would be worth. But of course, I obviously can’t speak to the individuals. So overall, I mean, probably an AdSense is about 40% of my revenue. Brand deals are maybe because I don’t sponsor every video probably around there. And then I have affiliate links and a few different other sources of revenue. But let’s say AdSense is probably around 30-40 grand a month.
Miriam Schulman: Okay. So fair to say you’re you are like a two comma mama at this point.
Nick Lewis: Yeah, I think, uh, yeah, I would probably say it’s a business. After I pay everybody, it’s probably close to the like getting close to the around the million.
Miriam Schulman: Beautiful.
Nick Lewis: Yeah. Which is like, it’s quite insane. Like, I am not. Don’t think for a second it’s not lost on me. Like how crazy it is. Like I’m really quite, um, blown away by the response of how I was able of how that is even possible now.
Miriam Schulman: Which is why you’re not you don’t have to push acrylic milk containers because that’s not where it’s at for you.
Nick Lewis: It’s just not where it’s at for me. And that’s the thing. If you are a content creator, like, I get it, I get it because it’s like, you know, if this if you want to make this a job, I totally understand that when Temu comes and offers offers you a check, like I’m in a position where I’m very privileged, I’m able to say no to that, and I’ve said no to some for sure five figure deals around some of these partnerships because I’m I can because I’m at a point where it’s like, I don’t have to work with you, I can work with somebody else, and I don’t have to do that. But I also recognize that if you want to pursue an artistic kind of creative career in content, that’s not always. It’s not always, really. And also it’s not always possible, but it sometimes, you know, when you’re you got to make rent and that’s the person that comes to you like I do get it. But if you can, stick to the truth. Because in the end, that’s that’s going to reward you in the end.
Miriam Schulman: Okay. And is it fair to say, Nick, that when you first started out, you were a less picky about things that came your way, or have you always been. No, I’m not doing that.
Nick Lewis: Yeah, I would say that I’ve always been. The thing is for me is that because it happened so quickly? Um, that’s not to say like I mean, when I started in June, I was making videos and making zero, right? So I was making videos and they weren’t even making me a dollar. Right. So that’s true for every content creator on YouTube. You’re not making money until you are. And so you have no line of sight that this is. You don’t think that building a business like mine is going to happen. And to be quite honest, it’s unlikely. So, you know, that’s not, you know, really going to happen for you. So I didn’t make any money until that first cell phone bill payment in October, June, July, August, September. But even that’s quick. Let’s be honest. And then once that January hit where I was like, okay, this is big. And that was a bit of a spike, to be fair. Like, I probably February went back down to like 8 to 10, but even then I was thinking ten grand. There’s 120 grand a year. This is amazing for sitting in my living room. So it gave me the the ability to say no. And actually the manager that I ended up working with, he came to me, I had a bunch of agencies reach out and said, we want to manage you.
We want to, you know, be your manager and get you all these brand deals. And I said no to all of them because I was just like, ah, I don’t want to say yes to something that I’m going to regret. Um, and so I did say no until finally I was like, I spoke to him on the phone, I really liked him, and I thought he was really genuine. So, um, you know that I think I took my first brand deal in April of 2021. So about four months after that sort of blow up kind of happened. Um, and then so by that point, I was already making good AdSense money. I was all, so I already felt like I didn’t need to take the acrylic organizers to your point. Yeah. So so I would say I went from like 0 to 60 pretty quick in that sense. And so it all went by so quickly I didn’t have time. But I do understand that a lot of creators are literally doing that for years to try to get to the point where they’re able to work with a brand. And so, you know, that’s a bit of a different situation.
Miriam Schulman: And sometimes that is why you catapulted is because you had such a clear vision from the get go.
Nick Lewis: Uhmm
Miriam Schulman: Or no? You disagree with that?
Nick Lewis: No, I do think so. I do love being a creative and like obviously making fun videos and the fact that my next video was whatever I want it to be like. I love the autonomy of doing what I do. My next video, I can say what I want. I don’t have anybody really. Youtube doesn’t call me up and say, hey, you’ve offended Wayfair because you made fun of one of their things in the video. Like, I can make fun of whatever I want and like, no one says anything. It’s it’s still family friendly content. I don’t really swear or anything like that. So I can do what I want. And that’s really that’s really great. But yeah, I really fell in love with the process of like seeing the views go up, seeing the subscribers go up like that was a fun game to see. Like, how far can I take this? And then before you know it, it was a business.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. And I’m just going to share one more little tidbit before we wrap up. Like Nick will actually say, well, they’re not sponsoring this part of the video. I was like, oh my gosh, I don’t even remember what it was in reference to.
Nick Lewis: It was in reference to Wayfair.
Miriam Schulman: It was Wayfair. It was. Yes, because it was like Wayfair. It sponsored. And then it was like later I was like, well.
Nick Lewis: Yeah, they sponsored the beginning and they because Wayfair and honestly, they’re a great sponsor to work with because they wanted me to shout out their channel and I said yes. And they’re honestly really great. And I have like, I literally have a video that’s by this, not that the best and worst products on Wayfair that came out like three weeks ago. And they they thought they I don’t know if they watched it. Listen, I don’t really know. Um, but then later on in the video, I think, yeah, I said like something about Kelly Clarkson Collection on Wayfair. And I’m like, who sponsored this video? But they didn’t sponsor this part. I just.
Yes, that was the thing. Like, to me, I just don’t like it’s so I don’t like I care, but I don’t care, you know, like I care about my audience I care about. But at the same time, it’s like that joke to me because this is how that, that, that joke to me is more important than Wayfair calling me up and saying, hey, we’re not going to pay you your money or we’re not going to work with you again. I’ll be like, well, that’s fine. But like, the joke stands.
Miriam Schulman: The joke me up and it’s kind of like, how did Greta Gerwig get to make a whole feature movie? Making fun of Barbie? Yeah, because Barbie understood that was good for business. Like it’s not bad for business that you were also making fun of it.
Nick Lewis: I think they kind of sort of get it. I mean, I think hope, I love and I even have said that in a thing with, with brands before, I’ve made fun of Wayfair. But I kind of love that they, they, they understand it because all I say is like, there’s something for everybody. And it’s true. Their whole thing is there’s something for everybody on Wayfair and there’s a lot on Wayfair that’s not for me. So they they kind of just love that. And I don’t know, I think just people like to me it’s about the connection with the audience, making sure the joke lands, making sure like if I can make people laugh, that’s worth it. I’ll happily give away further money back. You know I will not happily, but I would, you know, like but they they would if they said we’ll never work with you again. I’ll just be like, okay, well, I’ll work with somebody else. That because the audience is there and the views are there. And so if you have the views and you have the audience and you have that trust and that connection, there’s always going to be brands that are like going to want to work with you. So I always just, you know, yes, the person that directly pays me is the brand. But I again, taking it back to what I was saying earlier about it being a business. The business is ultimately you, the viewer. Making you happy as a customer, even though you’re not paying me, you’re kind of paying me through your I like watching my stuff.
Miriam Schulman: Attention. Paying through attention.
Nick Lewis: Yeah. Paying through attention. So to me, you’re my customer. And so if I make you laugh and you watch and you click because you get to the end of a video and go, that guy’s funny, I want to see that again. That’s what it’s all about. Like, it’s just it’s not about making sure Wayfair is happy. I just I picked up on so many of these channels, and it just feels like so much of it is, you know, I’ve talked to creators and they say, basically, I don’t make content unless it’s attached to a sponsor now, because that’s the way that they have to make money. And I’m like, that sucks. Like, I don’t feel like I’m in that position.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. All right. Nick. So what we’ve done is we’ve linked up in the show notes. This is episode 315. So if you wherever you’re listening to your app, the show notes are there. Or you can hop on over to my blog SchulmanArt.com/315. We are going to link up his YouTube channel, but also that episode I mentioned about millennial versus Gen X versus Gen Z versus what were the other people? Boomers.
Nick Lewis: The boomers? Yeah. Don’t forget about the boomers.
Miriam Schulman: Okay. Yeah. We got all all of us. Oh, there’s nobody safe—
Nick Lewis: Nobody’s safe when it comes to bad design.
Miriam Schulman: So do you have any last words for our listeners before we call this podcast complete?
Nick Lewis: Um, yeah, I would just say, like, I don’t I mean, your audience is already creative, right? So you’ve already got the creative part down and whether no matter where you kind of are in your journey, there’s you have to just try to find that intersection of that place where you love what you do. You’re able to be, you know, creative in your own way because that’s what the world, you know, needs more of. But then at the end of the day, you know, if this is if you’re moving this into a business, you know, just think of what is your audience want, what is your customer want. And just double down on that. You’ll never go wrong if that’s what you do.
Miriam Schulman: I love that. All right. So love your buyer. All right my friends, thank you so much for joining me here today. I’ll see you the same place same time next week. Until then, stay inspired. Bye for now.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to The Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram @schulmanart and of course, on SchulmanArt.com.
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