THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Jule Kim: A belief is simply a thought that you have practiced a lot, and you’ve practiced it so much that it gains momentum and feels like the truth. And that’s what rules our lives behind the scenes, right? Like, we don’t even know that we have all these beliefs that are ruining our lives.
Speaker 2: It’s the Inspiration Place podcast with artist Miriam Schulman. Welcome to the Inspiration Place Podcast, an art world insider podcast for artists by an artist where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the art. And now your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman: Hey there, it’s Miriam Schulman here. I am the author of the book Artpreneur as well as the host of the Inspiration Place podcast. Our guest today is a certified life coach dedicated to helping women feel more comfortable in their own skin. As a Korean American who grew up in Alabama, Jules struggled with confidence and people-pleasing. In this self-love deck, she draws upon the learnings from her own journey as well as her work with hundreds of clients. Jewell is a UC Berkeley graduate who currently resides in Seattle with her husband, Jason, and their 18-year-old cat, Tabitha. We love cats.
Jule Kim: Yeah. Uh, unfortunate update. Not to be a downer, but my cat did pass away in the in-between phase when this was off at the printers and when they actually came out. So she’s no longer with us. She’s—
Miriam Schulman: I did see that face, and when you said “not to be a downer,” I was so afraid something happened to your husband. But I’m also sorry that something happened to, you know, to your cat. But I was preparing for something much worse. Like, well, you didn’t know that, did you? We have a lot of, um, cat moms in my community. Dog moms too, but only the cat moms seem to tell me about their cats, so…
Jule Kim: Well, all of you people—cat moms—we’re in the same tribe here. I love cats. I do love dogs too, but cats, they hold a special place in my heart.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. Okay, so tell us the story that you think is boring, but everybody else is fascinated.
Jule Kim: Okay, so maybe not boring. Um, I think it was a little bit of my imposter-ness kicking in here. Yeah.
Miriam Schulman: See, we teach what we most need to hear, right?
Jule Kim: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Uh, so I’ve had lots of people reaching out, asking me how did I make this happen? And it’s a little bit of that “I got lucky” feeling because I kind of did. And I think the issue here is that’s okay. Sometimes those things happen, and there’s nothing wrong with that. So how this happened is, like back in the day in 2020, um, someone reached out to me from HarperCollins. And this deck is not from HarperCollins, okay? It’s from Penguin Random House. But someone reached out to me because—
Miriam Schulman: Record scratch. Okay, first of all, those are both top ten publishing houses—or top five. So whatever luck you had because someone reached out to you, you obviously created a platform significant enough that it caught their attention. So can you at least congratulate yourself for that?
Jule Kim: Yes. Uh, and that’s part of the story too. So I think in 2020, HarperCollins was building their influencer program, and one of their people reached out to me and asked if I wanted to join. And I was like, uh, yes. Like, shut up. Yes, already. And so this person then moved on to Penguin and had kept an eye on my Instagram journey. So in that in-between time, I’d grown like 20,000 followers or so. So they reached out to me, saying, “Hey, we’re looking to launch a new project, and it’s like the first of its kind. And we were wondering if you’d be interested.” She was like, um, they asked if they could put my name up for it. And I was like, of course. So they had me do a writing sample just to make sure it was a vibe fit. And here we are today.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. That’s fantastic. How many people do you have on your Instagram channel that made it so that they were like, yes?
Jule Kim: Not as many as yours. So I think when they found me, I was around 21,000, and my TikTok is a little bit bigger, so TikTok is around 29,000. Okay. But yeah, and I don’t think they were even aware of the TikTok channel at that point.
Miriam Schulman: Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, good for you. So when I first—okay, so first of all, we’re going to talk just about your cards. Um, how long did it take you to develop them? And I do want to answer a question that I did see in the chat. See, they’re very pretty. Um, I have a feeling that the art director at Penguin—designed the colors and everything, though. Right? Okay. Um, how long did it take you to develop this?
Jule Kim: I think the total process of the back-and-forth with, like, writing everything, getting feedback from my editor, it took around seven months, 7 to 8 months, I believe. So, not terrible. But at the same time, when you think about, like, the amount of content that’s on these cards—so you have a front, but then you also have the back, which is where the meat is. And in theory, if you’ve got like 52 of these cards and then a couple of intro cards, it doesn’t sound like a lot of content. Well, let me tell you, it’s so much harder to write something that short instead of, like, a whole, like, one book. And also, the context switching—that was really challenging for me. So I had so many meltdowns, and I remember thinking during that process, like, I got so mad at my editor multiple times. Me too. And then I would feel bad about getting mad at the editor. And so then I would apologize. And then I would—I would have, like, multiple—I must have seemed like a crazy person to my editor. I was.
Miriam Schulman: Don’t worry. I was a crazy person talking about imposter syndrome. For some reason, probably because I was naive and stupid, I didn’t think that getting a book contract was going to be a big deal. And probably that’s why I got it, because I never thought it was hard. Like, in my mind, of course I can get a book contract. Once I signed the contract, from then until it was published, I thought everyone had made a huge mistake. I was like, oh, they made a huge mistake. I’m never going to be able to do this. And even when I was completely done with all the rounds of the edits—it had gone through developmental editing, three rounds of copy editing, and it was ready to go to the printer—I was like, you know, I really should just give them back the advance because nobody at HarperCollins likes my book. This is not the thing.
I want to share with the artists and the creatives in the community how I used it. So what I did was I would almost treat them like Oracle cards and pull them out. Let’s say it said, “I embrace the full me.” That’s not the one I pulled that day. I pulled a different one. I pulled, “I forgive myself for past mistakes.” So what I did was I created it inside of my art journal. A lot of people know that I, I… So this is my regular planner, and what I do is I create art journal spreads with these affirmation statements—things that I need, thoughts that I need to practice to internalize them, to make them beliefs. Because a belief is really just a habit of thought, and the way you change your beliefs is to practice a new thought. So the way I practice new thoughts is I put them in the journal, and because I’m an artist, it relaxes me to color. I do my own bubble letters. I write in a black gel pen and fill them in. Jule, you can tell us other ways people can use the cards, because I see inside of here there are ideas for self-love rituals inside the deck.
Jule Kim: Well, first, I love what you did, which was to write it out yourself. The data shows us that it’s not the same as just reading something. And it’s definitely not the same as typing out something. There is something magical that happens in our brain when we actually take the time to write on it. And then you even embellished it and created a little art piece in and of itself. So that was fantastic.
And the other thing that I noticed that you said—I swear it’s like we’re on the same wavelength, the universe—because I started reading your book. And let me tell you, this thing is fantastic. I’m like, where was this book when I needed it? When I was a photographer? Like, this is exactly the kind of thing I needed. And the thing that you just said, I literally said to one of my clients on Tuesday—like this week, two days ago—I asked her, do you understand what a belief is? A belief is simply a thought that you have practiced a lot, and you’ve practiced it so much that it gains momentum and feels like the truth. And that’s what rules our lives behind the scenes, right? Like we don’t even know that we have all these beliefs that are running our lives.
I’ll tell you, I had a freaking major imposter syndrome moment when they reached out to me and asked me for the writing sample, because the first thought in my mind was, oh my God, I’m the wrong person. They should go ask Brené Brown. That was literally my first thought. So I did the thing most people with imposter syndrome—or people who, let’s say, experience recurring challenges with the imposter experience—do. There’s this urge to run away from an opportunity, and that’s what I’ve suffered from most of my life. It’s the urge to either reroute the opportunity to somebody else or to just shut down. Like, you’ll see me disappear, like—or you used to see me disappear off the face of the earth for weeks. But when we’re talking about this, the second thought that popped into my mind was, no, I hate affirmations. I had a major problem with affirmations my entire life, and it’s because they felt like lies. They felt like pretty little lies I was just telling myself, and this is why I love this product so much. When they approached me for it, I had already been thinking through making something just like this. And how I like to think about it is the problem for most people with affirmations is it’s too far of a leap from where you are now. It’s too big of a leap. You need some stepping stones in between to help you get there. That’s what this back portion is for. So if we’re talking about what are other ways you can use these cards, I would say, use these cards as conversation starters with your friends. Take these to group experiences—like I know you have a membership. So yeah.
Miriam Schulman: So the accountability pods—those of you who are inside my Artist Incubator—this may be something you want to use inside the pods. Go ahead, Jule, this is so much fun.
Jule Kim: Yes, that’s literally what I was thinking about—like your accountability pods or when people do breakout rooms—to have a short discussion where everybody goes around and shares their thoughts, their reactions, and there’s no judgment, right? Because there’s no such thing as a bad or invalid reaction. Your reaction is yours. So, before these actually released—because they came out on Halloween last year—I debuted the cards privately at a retreat in Belgium. I used these in a guided meditation with a group of, I think, eight or ten people, and it was amazing. We gathered around in a circle, closed our eyes, lay down, and everybody’s heads were toward the center, like spokes in a wheel. We weren’t looking at each other, which I thought made the experience interesting because we were talking, but we weren’t looking at each other. For me, it was a more open and expansive experience.
Miriam Schulman: Beautiful. I wanted to circle back to something you said earlier, just so that everyone listening understands. Sometimes the affirmations that people use—let’s just use weight loss as an example. If you’re saying, “I’m thin, I’m thin, I’m thin,” your brain’s going to go, “No, you’re not. No, you’re not. No, you’re not.” But when I wanted to lose weight, the type of affirmations I was writing and still work on are things like, “I love to drink water. Water is my favorite beverage.” I can convince myself of that and the things that would lead to something that would help me.
So, in terms of being prosperous or being creative in your business, it’s not “I’m rich” or “I’m a millionaire” because your brain’s going to go, “No, you’re not. No, you’re not. No, you’re not.” But affirmations like “My income is constantly increasing” or “Creative ideas are always coming to me” or “Money flows to me in unexpected ways”—those are bridge thoughts you can practice using that will help you eventually get to the result you want. You can’t just affirm a result that isn’t quite true, because that’s going to cause cognitive dissonance, and your brain will know it’s wrong.
Jule Kim: Yes, so the stepping stones in between are really important. And I love what you did with the “I love water.” That’s what I tell my clients. If the thing you’re trying to believe is too far, then pick something you know to be true. So, I’m guessing you’re familiar with the model. Is that right? There’s one piece in there—the thought. When you go to the new thought, I put in a requirement for my clients. I say, you must be able to believe this new thought with the strength of a nine out of ten or a ten out of ten. Anything less is not going to do. Okay? So it has to be something that you truly believe to be the truth. So, the “I love water” or something similar—even with money. If not, it’s “My income is constantly increasing,” at least “I know how to make money and I can make money.” So, yeah, find the things that you know to be true that you can build upon. And that’s the bridge—the whole bridging process to get to the other side.
Miriam Schulman: So, the artists who are inside the Artist Incubator, they have learned the model through our resident mindset coach, who has been trained by Brooke Castillo and The Life Coach School. But for those who are not familiar, it basically is cognitive behavioral therapy. The concept is that there are circumstances in the world, we have thoughts about them, the thoughts we have create our feelings, our feelings drive our actions, and our actions lead to our results. I talk a lot about this inside Artpreneur with very specific examples of how this affects you as a creative person. So if there is a circumstance and your thought is “I can’t lose weight,” that is not a helpful thought. I realized I was actually doing that last year. I kept complaining, “I’m menopausal, I can’t lose weight.” And I said, oh, wait a minute—every time I complain, it’s a negative affirmation. So that’s why you have to be very careful about the sentences you say in your mind. Do you speak Korean?
Jule Kim: Oh my goodness! Yes. That. That is amazing.
Miriam Schulman: That’s the only language it got translated into.
Jule Kim: What? Why is that the language?
Miriam Schulman: I don’t know, I don’t—I don’t know, I don’t know. But, uh, you know, when they sent me the cover, I was like, I don’t know if I like this, but now that it’s here, I really like it. So, um, there’s like this laptop with all the stickers on it, and I don’t know, I think it’s kind of cool. And then it’s all in Korean. Yeah. I don’t think you can get it anywhere except in Korea, though, because my mom lives in Fort Lee, and we were trying to get it for the Fort Lee library because they have a Korean book club there. But yeah. So, and that is not available on Amazon—the Korean version.
Jule Kim: Well, you know, I was reading through the beginning of your book, and I didn’t realize we had so much in common. Your background, right? So, what’s your degree in? Engineering? Okay, I have a degree—okay, and I have a degree in math. And then from what I was—
Miriam Schulman: Of course you do. Because we’re Asian and Jewish.
Jule Kim: Yeah, but it’s crazy to me, given what you do—what you used to do. Because you used to be one of those, uh, the algorithm programmers or something, right? For Wall Street?
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. Did you see the movie The Big Short?
Jule Kim: Yes.
Miriam Schulman: Okay, so the nerdy guys—that was me. That’s what I did. I would do the computer programming for the models.
Jule Kim: I know that blew my mind.
Miriam Schulman: Did you do that too? Did you do Wall Street too after?
Jule Kim: No, I didn’t do. See, that’s what I would have done had I been smart. But I went off to law school and then I was a law school dropout, so.
Miriam Schulman: Oh, okay. So in other words, you impress your parents in many different ways, like you did the math major and you got a law degree.
Jule Kim: I dropped out, didn’t get the law degree. Okay. So, yeah, that’s part of what I think really pressures us as artists. Like when you’re talking about embracing becoming an artist, there are so many parts I identified with, which is why I was like, where was this book when I needed it? Even owning the identity of being an artist—you know, I left Amazon in 2016, and I was still saying I left Amazon like a year later. I had such a hard time just saying, “I’m a photographer.” It was incredibly hard for me. I would stutter, blush, and turn hot. It was just so uncomfortable. And in my mind, it’s because, one, I hadn’t gone to school for photography. Definitely imposter syndrome in the Asian culture—because for you to be something or be somebody in a profession, you must have gone to school for it.
And so I remember even when I was doing photography, my dad was like, “Maybe you should go to school for photography.” And then I told him, “Oh man, I found out that there’s a master’s in photography.” And my dad was like, “You should definitely do that.” And you know what stopped me—which is surprising—was my husband. So, in 2016, I started watching classes on CreativeLive. I’m assuming you know that platform?
Miriam Schulman: I do, yeah.
Jule Kim: Everything I’ve learned about photography is through CreativeLive. I didn’t have any in-person teacher; it was all from watching courses there. And I asked my husband, “I think I should go to art school and learn photography.” And he was like, “No, not worth it.” And he said, “You’re probably learning everything you need and more. You’re probably learning more than what you would learn in art school through what you’re doing now.”
Miriam Schulman: Yeah. I mean, you learn more from just doing things like there’s no course on how to do an Amazon Live correctly. Sometimes you just have to do things that because that’s how you’re going to learn. Even if it feels scary, you just have to do it anyway.
Jule Kim: So that’s the lesson that I think people mostly refuse to learn. I have another story. Okay, so my husband saves me from going to art school, which yes, I didn’t need. But then the next thing I was cycling through, which is totally typical of imposter syndrome that I didn’t know, was when I was going through photography in the worst years—the first two years I made no money. It was just like a freaking expensive hobby. Okay? I was stuck in this cycle of watching classes because I felt like I didn’t know enough. And to be a photographer, it does require a lot, right? Like you have to learn the aesthetics, you have to learn the technical skills, you have to learn lighting. And if you do people, like I did, you have to learn posing. There is a lot to learn for sure. But then this is the next point where my husband, you know, he’s holding my feet to the fire. One day he asks me, “When are you going to take photos?” And I was just like, ouch, what is the truth?
Miriam Schulman: Oh my gosh.
Jule Kim: And so when we’re talking about imposter syndrome, there are five major ways that it tends to manifest in people, and one of the ways is called the expert type. This is the person who feels like they need to take all the classes, get all the certifications, and must know everything there is to know before they can go out and do the thing. The thing that really helped change my mindset at the time—because I still didn’t realize this was imposter syndrome—was when my husband told me about this experiment. You’ve probably heard of this photography experiment with a professor in school, I’m assuming?
Miriam Schulman: Well, I don’t know what it is until you tell it, but—
Jule Kim: Okay, so there’s a professor, I think it’s in college. He has a class on photography. On the first day of class, he divides the students into two halves. Okay, so there’s a left side and a right side. One group is told that their grade is going to rest on the sheer number of photos they turn in. So if they turn in 100 photos, they get an A; if they turn in 90, they get a B, etc. The other group is told they can turn in one photo, and their entire grade is going to rest on that one photo. So it’s the quantity versus quality experiment, right?
Miriam Schulman: Yeah.
Jule Kim: He gets all the projects turned in, and he is shocked. All of the best work is coming from the quantity group.
Miriam Schulman: Yeah, I did hear the story before, but I didn’t want to stop you. Because our people who are who we kind of know they’re there, but are not really. So what I’m going to do is ask Jule if there’s any last words she wants to share before we say goodbye.
Jule Kim: I have no last words.
Miriam Schulman: No last words.
Jule Kim: Other than this was fun. And yeah, maybe we can do this again one day.
Miriam Schulman: Alright, my friend. We’ll see you next week. Same time, same place. Until then, stay inspired. Bye for now.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to The Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram @schulmanart and of course, on SchulmanArt.com.
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