THE INSPIRATION PLACE PODCAST
Miriam Schulman: Timing. When somebody expresses interest, follow up within 24 to 72 hours. If they say check in later. Ask them what they mean by that and then put it on your calendar and circle it. If they ghost, you can try one last nudge. Hey, totally understand if now’s not the right time, but I wanted to circle back before I offer this artwork to somebody else.
Speaker 2: It’s the Inspiration Place podcast with artist Miriam Schulman. Welcome to the Inspiration Place podcast, an art World Insider podcast for artists by an artist, where each week we go behind the scenes to uncover the perspiration and inspiration behind the art. And now your host, Miriam Schulman.
Miriam Schulman: Welcome back to the Inspiration Place podcast. I’m your host Miriam Schulman your curator of inspiration today. And okay. My brother always wanted to be a writer and a filmmaker, and I guess he kind of is. And I remember my mom and I, we used to worry that he was going to become famous. I don’t know if my mother was worried, but I was worried that he would be like a David Sedaris and spill all of our secrets. And meanwhile, my brother has not done any of those things. He has a very quiet job. He works for PBS in the Madison, Wisconsin branch. But I have been spilling the family secrets. I am the one who was telling all the embarrassing stories. You’re welcome. All right, so today’s embarrassing mother story is brought to you today by my daughter, Talia. I’m so sorry, Talia. I know I’m not going to embarrass her, per se, but she is the star of the story. The first story. So there is a couple in the building, and the wife who we’re going to assume doesn’t listen to this podcast, and her friend doesn’t listen to the podcast, but I will change her name anyway. We are going to call her Ruth. We’re going to call her Ruth, not her real name. And the first letter has nothing to do with her real name. So Ruth is a little bit of a yenta, and Ruth said that she had somebody to introduce to my daughter.
Miriam Schulman: I was like, great, fantastic. My daughter is 27 and she has a lot of friends, but she doesn’t have a boyfriend right now. So I said, okay, here’s her picture. Show it to the young man. If he’s interested. I’ll ask my daughter if she’s also interested. So yes, yes, yes. And the phone number got passed along to said man and said man didn’t reach out. Not the first day, not the second day, not the third day. Which, by the way, according to my team, Adi said that on the show how I Met Your Mother, that 3 to 5 days is the cutoff off when you’re supposed to text. But anyway, five days went by. Seven days went by. Three weeks went by. And my daughter said, should there be a cutoff to this? And I said, I think so. And my friend Ruth reached out to me, was like, did they get together? I said, I don’t think so. I don’t think he reached out yet. So. And she did. Um, but the thing is, by that point and he did text her, but by that point my daughter was like, over it. Now, here’s the thing. Why am I talking about this? Because you guys do the same things to your customers. You do? And I’ve had this done to me. So I had a similar situation. We’re back in April. And again, I don’t think this woman listens to my podcast, but we’ll assume that either she does or one of her friend does.
Miriam Schulman: So we will change her name. We will call her Jill. So Jill had some service that I was interested in. It’s not copywriting, but let’s pretend it is so. And I reached out to her and I was like, I’m interested in this XYZ package you have. So we talked about it. I didn’t sign anything. I says, all right, well, I’m launching right now, so why don’t you circle back to me in May and we’ll talk about it. So May goes by and June goes by. And then I said to Jill and my mutual friend John, not his real name, of course, John. You know, Jill never reached out to me. But don’t tell you, Jill. Of course John did tell Jill because, like, the next day, Jill send out an email saying, oh, my time has flown by. Are you ready to do that project now? And here’s the thing. Ing when you show up in a way that lets the other person know that they’re not really interested. You’re not a priority. You’re in Jill’s case, not professional in my daughter’s case. Not mature or not ready for a relationship or not interested or whatever. Whatever the reason was, we don’t really know what this young man’s motivations were for not wanting to even. He said yes to his friend’s mother, but we don’t know if he was people pleasing her and just didn’t want to say no to her, whatever his reasons were.
Miriam Schulman: But he wasn’t interested because if he was interested, he would have reached out right away. And by the way, when he did finally reach out, it was pretty meh. Kind of like Jill. Pretty man. All right. Why am I telling you these stories? It’s not to entertain you. Hopefully you’re entertained by them, but because you guys are doing this to your collectors, you get their email address. You don’t send the email. You don’t send an email that week. You don’t send the email that month either. Why? Because you only send four emails a year. Or maybe you do send emails out every week, but you don’t use their email or their phone number to follow up with them about the thing they’re interested in. In other words, like our young man friend, you don’t have game. You’re so afraid of being rejected that you sabotage the whole thing. Sound familiar? You have to follow up and close the deal with somebody while they are still interested. Especially with artwork. It’s just like the relationship. First of all, you don’t nurture the relationship. It’s rude. People get turned off, but also people change their mind. So what happened to me with Jill? It wasn’t just that I was being petty with her. That okay? She waited too long. I mean, part of it was because it just showed me that as somebody who I was thinking about doing business with, that she had a terrible follow up.
Miriam Schulman: And so I didn’t want to invest my money in that. You know, somebody who has bad follow up. And by the way, yeah, your customers might be thinking about this as well. Like if you’re going to do a commission with them, why would they want to do a commission with somebody who waits two weeks before following up or three weeks before following up? And if the commission was for a present, they may have moved on to something else. Now, with Joe, what happened is I kind of lost interest in that copywriting project. By the way, it’s not a copywriting project. We just don’t want to say what it really is. And then I decided I wanted to invest in publicity instead. So. Oh, here’s how it should look, by the way. Around the same time, I was being interviewed on a podcast, and at the end of the podcast, I learned that one of the services that this person offered is getting their clients pitched to speak on stages as well as podcast interviews. And I was like, okay, I’m interested in that. And we discussed it and the price was very fair. I did tell her she should raise her prices, but not for me. It was like, let me get it. And while your prices are still too slow. I mean, it’s not low low, it’s. It’s an investment, but still. So this is how it should look. I got a contract from the PR person.
Miriam Schulman: We’re just. We’re just going to call her Patti, not her real name. So Patty sent me a contract the next day and a booking link, and she just made it really easy for me to follow up. And she sent a reminder two days later when I didn’t act on it, and I was like, okay, well, this is how it’s supposed to look. And yes, I do want publicity? So I signed the contract and I booked myself into her calendar for that first meeting. And I’ll be. I’ll be working with her. I think our set up meeting is the week after I’m recording this. So that’s the way it’s supposed to look. All right, so the boy did finally text her. Once the friend’s mother said, hey, how come you didn’t reach out yet? He said, oh, I forgot about it, by the way. Not a good sign. I’m going to give you the artist’s version of what this boy then did to my daughter. He didn’t do anything to her, but he did finally text her, and my husband convinced my daughter give him a chance. So his first text was kind of lame. It wasn’t like, hey, I’ve been meaning to reach out to you. Would you like to meet for coffee sometime? But which, by the way, is how it should look. Instead he was like, hi, this is Bob. I got your contact information from Ruth. What are you doing? 4th of July weekend.
Miriam Schulman: And so my daughter wrote back. And like, maybe he is trying to feel out if she has availability, but spoiler alert, that’s not how you do it. That’s kind of like saying to somebody, are you free on Arbor Day? Okay, so my daughter says, hey, Bob, great to hear from you. I have some friends. 4th of July weekend. What are you up to? So I did not ask my daughter for the text after that, because that’s an invasion of her privacy. And she knows I share things on the podcast, but she’s smart enough not to give it to me. But basically, they went back and forth a few times, but he never asked her out. Now let’s talk about what the artist version of this is. We’re going to talk about like what this might look like in person. You’re inside a warm conversation. Instead of guiding it, you back off. You say something like, let me know. Here’s my card. You can think about it. I would say, though, I would guess that you can think about it is probably even aggressive for some of you guys. I bet none of you even say that. These are the sales equivalent of texting five times and never asking somebody out. So here’s what you need to say instead. Oh, would you like to take that home today? I can wrap it up for you right now. How would you like to pay cash or charge? That’s what it looks like to actually close the deal with somebody.
Miriam Schulman: Are you deciding between this one and another one? How can I help you feel confident saying yes today? These are clear. Confident buyer respecting questions that move the energy forward. So let’s talk about why we might we as artists or business people. If you’re not exactly an artist, a creative entrepreneur might avoid asking for the sale. Perhaps, like Bob, you’re afraid of rejection. Perhaps you’re afraid of not wanting to be too pushy. Or in Bob’s case, maybe he was worried about being too desperate sounding. Maybe assuming if they wanted it, they would say so. So was Bob waiting for Talia to say, would you like to go for coffee? Because Talia was not going to do that. Her mother read the book The rules and taught it to her. You know, it’s like it’s not your job to ask them out. And quite frankly, my daughter is like she’s more interested in building lots and lots of To friendships. I’m sure she would love to have a nice boyfriend, but she’s, you know, she’s not going to make it easier for them. Maybe you have a false belief that confidence equals arrogance. Here’s the truth. Collectors don’t need pressure. They need clarity. And they need your confidence. So I’m going to remind you of my concept called the belief triad. I was getting text from my daughter and I was like, wondering, oh, did she actually get that? Get us down by this guy? Finally.
Miriam Schulman: No, because that was days ago. So it ended with a dead end. I think he asked her what kind of music she liked, and she told him, and that was the end of it. And then my daughter said to me later, oh, did I turn him off? Because I was only talking about classical music. I was like, no, he’s supposed to ask you out by now. And you weren’t making it easy for him. And buyers are not going to make it easier for you. It’s your job to make it easy for someone to say yes or no. Like this guy, if he had balls, he would have said, I would like to take you out. Or I would like to meet you for coffee. Which is better for you Saturday or Sunday? And if Ty is said neither, he could say, well, what about next week? So you make it easy for someone to say yes or no. Cash or charge? Do you want me to drop this off or do you want it delivered? You know, do you want me to ship it, or are you going to take it home with you right now, Saturday or Sunday? Make it easy for them. Okay, so I want to just go back with the belief triad. So the belief triad is in my book Artpreneur. It’s on page 35. That’s the belief triad. So belief triad there’s three things that have to come into play.
Miriam Schulman: One is belief in yourself, just like Bob has to believe in himself. Number two is believe in your offer, which is your art. Or in Bob’s case, that somebody wants to go out on a date. And don’t forget she said yes, I would go out on a date with Bob. Here’s my number. She already said that. Okay. But the third thing is belief in your buyer. So actually kind of mixing that up. So the offer would be the date. But the belief in the buyer is tie is belief. So when you’re selling art or when you’re making a sale, whatever it is you’re selling, what’s going through your customer’s mind is not weather. So if I’m selling a painting, it’s not whether Miriam Schulman is worth $5,000 to buy her painting, it’s not whether this painting by Miriam is worth $5,000. What’s going through your buyer’s mind is, am I worth $5,000 to get something that I want? Am I worth spending $5,000 to get x, y, z? Whatever that thing happens to be? Now, if you, as the seller are hesitating, if you as the seller are not confident that they are worth it, they will sense your hesitancy and they won’t necessarily know how to read it. If you are not believing in them, if you’re not believing in yourself, and if you’re not believing in your art, they will pick up that uncertainty. And the brain hates uncertainty. Remember we talked about that in artist tantrums.
Miriam Schulman: You want to be a place of certainty. You want to be sure that you are going to be right. And the other thing going through a buyer’s mind is they are so afraid of making a bad decision, are they not going to like it? Are they going to be sorry they spent this money? So if you are projecting any uncertainty about any of these things, about your price, about your art, about yourself or about your customer, they will pick it up and they will be repulsed by that. Repulse is probably too strong of a word, but put it the other way that if you’re confident in yourself, if you’re confident in your art, and you’re confident that the buyer deserves to have this art, that confidence is magnetic. The uncertainty brain hates uncertainty. That’s repellent. So that is why when you are wavering in your confidence, you will sabotage the deal. Just like our friend Bob sabotaged it with my daughter. First of all, waiting three weeks. I mean, in her mind, she already moved on. If it wasn’t for me and her dad saying, just give him a chance. I don’t think she would have really bothered, but she bothered because she doesn’t want to be that person. She wanted it to be nice. He’s like, okay, so hey, nice to hear from you. But he never asked her out. That is also never asking for the sale. One of the clients I’m working with now, he was so happy because he came back from an art show where he got so many inquiries about commissions and interests, and he handed out a lot of cards, and he was even celebrating this.
Miriam Schulman: And I said, Paul, did you ask any of them to buy your art? I didn’t. And he even waited to follow up with them. And then the next show, he dropped his prices because he thought the prices were the problem. And now. But I had been coaching them in like, ask for the sale, ask for the sale. And now he closed more of those sales more easily. But that wasn’t because the prices were lower. That’s because at the lower price, he had convinced himself that that was the problem. And he was he was more confident in asking for the sale. You have to ask for the sale. You have to ask for the date. You have to ask for the business. It is not your customer’s job to chase you. Let’s end with our actionable takeaways. Stop waiting for the buyer to take the lead. Step up in the moment. Oh, and don’t wait three weeks and wonder what happened. You should be pursuing somebody when they show interest until you get a yes or a no or a not now. And if they say not now, it’s your job to say okay, when and if they tell you when it’s your job to reach out to them during that time frame.
Miriam Schulman: Because if Jill had reached, I think I’m mixing up all my fake names. Jill’s the business. The fake business, right? Okay, so if Jill had reached out to me in early May, that would have made a difference for sure. Don’t make people say no to you. Hey there. If you’re an artist who’s tired of spinning your wheels, posting on social media, chasing trends, and still not seeing the results that you want, then you’re not going to want to miss my Artpreneur boot camp. This is a powerful three day virtual training where you’ll learn my passion to profit framework the same method I use to build a six figure art business over the last 20 years, and that has taken my clients over the six figure mark as well. Inside the bootcamp, you’ll discover the five biggest mistakes that keep artists stuck. Learn to focus on what’s actually going to grow your audience and sales, and walk away with a roadmap to build a profitable, sustainable business without sacrificing your creative time. Your art deserves to be seen and you deserve to get paid. Grab your spot now at SchulmanArt.com/BOOTCAMP. And now let’s get back to the show. Okay, so now you might be wondering why do so many artists smart, talented, heart centered humans hesitate to follow up or ask for the sale? Let’s unpack it. Fear of rejection. At the root of it is this ancient, primal fear of rejection.
Miriam Schulman: Our brains have evolved for survival, not goal achievement. And our brains are still wired like it’s the Stone age. So back then, getting kicked out of the tribe means you could literally die alone in the cold wilderness. So yeah, rejection feels dangerous. Even if today it’s just someone saying, no thanks. Not right now. The fear of no can make you avoid the ask altogether. You convince yourself that staying silent is safer. And it’s not even that you’re thinking that on a conscious level, you just give yourself all kinds of reasons why now’s not a good time. But let me tell you, silence is rejection in slow motion, letting somebody walk away without giving them the opportunity to say yes is actually a form of self rejection. You’re saying no to yourself. For them, You’re rejecting yourself on their behalf. So let’s stop doing that. Number two, the fear of being pushy. Oof! This one comes up a lot, especially for women and people socialized to be nice, agreeable, polite. You’re so worried about being that person. The one who pressures or is annoying. So what do you do? You back off. You back off completely. But here’s the truth. Clear communication is not pushy. It’s respectful. Asking, would you like to buy? This is not pressure. It’s clarity. You know what is being pushy? Making the customer doing all of the emotional labor. Expecting them to follow up with you. Expecting them to decode your subtle clues? That’s exhausting.
Miriam Schulman: It’s exhausting for them. Look at my daughter. She didn’t want to have to push Bob into asking her out. I mean, come on. That’s not her job. And it’s not our customers job, either. So instead, show up like the bold, confident artist you are meant to be. Take the pressure off of your buyer by guiding them to the next step. That’s service, not salesy. Number three. Internalizing self-doubt. Especially about pricing. So let’s talk about the elephant in the room. Your confidence or lack of confidence? Sometimes you don’t follow up or ask for the sale. Because deep down You don’t believe it’s worth it, or you don’t believe your art is worth it, or you don’t believe your customer really wants it. Remember that belief triad. Maybe you’re thinking, well, they probably don’t want to spend that much. I wouldn’t pay that much. Or what if they think I’m full of myself? Let me tell you, your pricing drama is not about the numbers. It’s about your self worth. If you’re not sold on your value, the value of your art, and your buyer’s desire, you’re going to hesitate. That decision is loud. Your collector can feel it. It’s the sound of silence. And the brain hates uncertainty. When you waver, they’ll walk. Next, for the myth of. Oh, they’ll come back later to be backers. All right. And finally, let’s bust this myth. If they want it, they’ll come back. Uh, no. They won’t. Not because they don’t want it, and not because they don’t value you.
Miriam Schulman: And not because they don’t value your art, but because life happens the minute they leave your booth or close their inbox or scroll past your post, they’re back in the chaos of their own life. They’re being pulled in a hundred different directions Amazon, abandoned cart emails, school pickups, vet appointments, or oh my god, the cat just threw up Instagram rabbit holes. Or oh my god, the dog just peed on the floor. It’s not that they changed their minds, it’s that the moment has passed and you just didn’t seize it. Sales is a timing Game, and timing has nothing to do with manipulation. It’s about honoring the moment when their desire is still alive. So stop waiting and wondering if they’ll circle back because they won’t. It’s your job. It’s your job to circle back. Make it easy for them. Make it easy for them to say yes. While the energy is still hot. While they still have the desire. Or maybe it’s easy for them to say no. Allow the no. Allow the room for them to say yes or no. But don’t say no for them. Okay. Now that we’ve unpacked, why we wait. Let’s flip the script. Let’s look at what it actually looks like when somebody gets this right. I want to go back to Patty. Remember, Patty, that’s the PR person I hired. She nailed it. The next day after our conversation, she sent me the contract and a booking link, and she made it so easy for me to say yes.
Miriam Schulman: And when I didn’t act on it right away, immediately she followed up with a friendly nudge. No awkwardness. No just checking in energy. Just clarity and professionalism. And that’s why I signed the contract and booked the call. And I’m working with her now. And not because she pressured me, but because she made the decision frictionless when I was still hot on the idea. That’s how it’s supposed to look. Now let’s contrast that with Jill. She’s the one who ghosted me. She wouldn’t say she goes to me because it’s not like I was reaching out and she wasn’t responding. But it is ghosting for two months and then acted like, oh, no time has passed. She lost the sale. She lost the sale not because I was being petty, but because the moment passed. My desire shifted. So timing absolutely matters. Okay, now I want to give you an example of an artist who was inside the incubator for a full year and just recently joined the Inner Circle, and whoa, what a difference having that level of coaching and accountability makes for a person. She was sharing with us inside the inner circle how she painted outside, and had a few people interested, friends of the people who owned the house. It wasn’t a portrait commission. It was like she just found a gorgeous house she wanted to paint. And while as somebody who didn’t own the house so she wasn’t sure how to close the sales, and we hashed it out during our inner circle call.
Miriam Schulman: And instead of dropping the ball or hoping that they would follow up with her. With a let me know. Or giving the card, or just adding them to the email list and hoping they would buy somehow. Linda followed up. Linda followed up confidently. She let the homeowner know that she was giving them first dibs and somebody else was also interested. But please get back to her either way so she can make the offer to the other person they bought. Cha ching! Then she went back to the other person and said, hey, I’m so sorry that’s gone, but if you want, I can work with you on something else. They bought three pieces. That was a total of $2,400 that Linda made in a month. Amazing, right? She followed up with both of them promptly and clearly. And that was all because she didn’t hesitate. She didn’t get stuck in her head. She didn’t wait three weeks. She didn’t tell herself stories like, oh, they’ll reach out again if they’re serious. Nope. She honored the interest. She kept the momentum, and she made the decision easy for the buyer. And by the way, she did all of this without lowering her prices. What she did do was show up with confidence and belief in herself, in her art, and in the buyers.
Miriam Schulman: And that’s the belief triad in action. Now, if you’re still wondering, what do you say and do I got you. But before we get into the words, let me remind you of this. Selling is not pressuring. It’s not begging. It’s not convincing. It’s sharing. It’s simply letting people know what’s available, what a cost and how to get it. How to check out, how to pay for it. That’s it. It’s like telling a friend about a restaurant you love or the moisturizer that finally worked. You’re not trying to sell to them. You’re sharing something you believe in. And when you bring that same energy to your art, everything changes. Okay, so now what to say in person if someone is admiring your work at a studio show, an art fair, or even casually, here’s what you say. Would you like to take this home today? I can wrap it up for you right now or I can drop it off. How would you like to pay? Are you trying to decide between this one or a different one? Would you like me to ship this or will you be taking it with you? These aren’t pushy questions. They’re clear. You’re guiding them in the process. You’re sharing the options. And as somebody does say, I need to think about it. Say, hey. Absolutely. Would it be helpful if I followed up with you later this week? Or would you like to have me bring it over to your home so that you can see what it looks like, and then actually follow up, make sure you get their contact information, everything they’re willing to give you.
Miriam Schulman: And if they’re not willing to give you anything. Yeah. They’re just not that into it. You’re not being annoying. You’re being helpful. Because again, selling is sharing. You know, most artists don’t fail because they’re not talented and they’re not hardworking. They fail because they’re focused on the wrong things. Posting endlessly on social media, getting lost in overwhelm or not knowing what to do next. That’s exactly why I created the Artpreneur bootcamp. In just three focused sessions, I’ll show you what actually works to build a sustainable art business, including how to shift your mindset, attract the right buyers, and confidently ask for the sale. You’ll also hear from real artists who have applied the same framework and made powerful transformations from side hustle to full time artists, from self-doubt to sold out. Let’s get your art into more hands and your art business into alignment with your dreams. Get started now at Schulman Art dot com bootcamp. And now let’s get back to the show. Let’s talk about timing. When somebody expresses interest, follow up within 24 to 72 hours. It’s kind of like how I Met Your Mother. You have three days. And really, it would be sooner if they say, check in later. Ask them what they mean by that, and then put it on your calendar and circle it.
Miriam Schulman: If they ghost, you can try one last nudge. Hey, totally understand if now’s not the right time, but I wanted to circle back before I offer this artwork to somebody else. That’s it. This gives them an easy exit and a chance to say yes, or to be clear and say no. And I want you to make this a habit. Keep a simple list of warm leads, people who’ve asked about a piece, a commission, or a print. I always kept a list of hot leads. I used artwork archive to do this, but I would tag everybody in there as hot, and I would keep following up with them till they say yes or no. That’s it. Schedule 15 minutes a week to check in with 3 to 5 of your hot people. Treat it like brushing your teeth. Small, regular follow ups lead to big sales over time. Listen, I don’t want you shooting on yourself. If you’ve made any of the mistakes that we’ve been talking about. You don’t need to be perfect. You don’t need to be pushy. You just need to share your art with the people who have already shown interest, and make it easy for them to say yes. That’s what confidence looks like. That’s what belief in your buyer feels like. And that’s how sales happen. All right, my friend, here’s the deal. If this episode stirred something in you and you realized you’ve been a bob texting five times without actually asking somebody out or asking for the sale.
Miriam Schulman: Or maybe you’ve been a Jill on your own. You meant to follow up with somebody, but you haven’t. This is your moment to shift that pattern. Right now, I want you to think of one person, one collector, one potential student, one gallery owner, one podcast host you meant to follow up with. But you did it. Got them. Okay. Now, I want you to reach out today. Not tomorrow. Not sometime next week. Today. And you don’t need a perfect script. You can literally say, hey, I’ve been thinking about our last conversation. Are you still interested in the thing? That’s it. No drama, no overthinking. Just sharing. Because remember, selling a sharing confidence is magnetic and delay is deadly. People want what you have, but they need your clarity to say yes. So let’s stop ghosting our own success. Let’s stop making people chase us. Let’s start sharing more boldly, more often, and more joyfully. And hey, if you want help with this, or you’re realizing you need better systems for follow up and sales. You should go check out my free training SchulmanArt.com/SELLMOREART. It’s packed with practical, no fluff strategies to help you become more consistent, confident, and profitable. And if you’ve already watched that free masterclass and you’re ready to join me in the incubator, go to SchulmanArt.com/BIZ. See if we’re opening yet for registration or add your name to the waitlist. All right, my friend, I’ll see you the same time, same place next week. Until then, stay inspired. Bye for now.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to The Inspiration Place podcast. Connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com/schulmanart, on Instagram @schulmanart and of course, on SchulmanArt.com.
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